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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DISH Cheers Ruling on AutoHop, PrimeTime Anytime


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61 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

I skip commercials sometimes too... and would probably use AutoHop... but the point that keeps being missed is the ultimate price to home viewers.

Once this starts to eat into the price of advertising (companies stop paying high prices for commercial spots on TV)... then one of a few likely scenarios will emerge:

1. More product placement in the shows... this doesn't bother me, but some complain about seeing product placement in their TV shows.

2. More cost to customers when channels raise prices to the providers to get back money they are losing from advertisers... everybody will complain when prices go up.

3. Channels get dropped, perhaps permanently... again, everybody will complain if their favorite channel goes away.

Skipping commercials was better when it was "behind the scenes" and you might not use the skip button... or you might leave the room but you might not. With AutoHop, and one button press you don't have to see any commercials and don't have to actively engage yourself to skip them... and that will become something measurable that companies will use to stop paying for advertising at some point.

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#22 OFFLINE   rocat1997

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

I do fully understand the logistics. But, they should realize mine. I pay $135 a month for tv. That should entitle me to skip or hop commercials. When I had an antenna, I couldn't do that. But my tv was free.

#23 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

I do fully understand the logistics. But, they should realize mine. I pay $135 a month for tv. That should entitle me to skip or hop commercials. When I had an antenna, I couldn't do that. But my tv was free.


Welcome to DBSTalk...

The problem is... what we pay for TV might be a lot, but it isn't the total cost to produce all the content that we watch. Commercials help pay for that... so if you get rid of commercials, then you would have to pay even more.

Nobody is actually forcing you to watch the commercials... they can't do that.

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#24 OFFLINE   OneOfOne

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:02 AM

people either change the channel or use a dvr and watch on their time. this has been the case for years and will not change. the genie is out of the bottle. why do you think the broadcasters want to count dvr viewing as part of their ratings?
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#25 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:57 AM

people either change the channel or use a dvr and watch on their time. this has been the case for years and will not change. the genie is out of the bottle. why do you think the broadcasters want to count dvr viewing as part of their ratings?


But counting the DVR viewers means nothing if people are automatically skipping the commercials.

The only value in ratings is for the price they set for advertisers... if those advertisers know viewers have a feature that they enable once and it skips all the commercials without further interaction, then what advertiser is going to continue to pay for ads on those channels?

There is a HUGE difference between me walking out of the room or skipping by pressing multiple keys on the remote each break VS having a "click yes to skip all commercials for this show" button to press once.

I'm not talking about whether or not I like the feature (I do like) or whether or not I watch commercials (I often do not)... I'm talking about the "next step" here.

Up until now, while you or I probably weren't watching commercials, the network could always say I might be, because they knew I was watching their show... but now, with "AutoHop" the advertisers can ask "ok, yeah he watched the show BUT did he enable AutoHop?"

That is a HUGE difference that I don't understand why people aren't "getting it"... networks are nervous because they see the advertiser dollars going down the drain on this in a few years... and believe it or not, one way or another WE will pay for this feature OR lose the channels and content if we don't.

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#26 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

Good points.

I can just see a fee negotiating session.....

"But you have all those people skipping our ads!"

"No, not many at all. Only 12% of our customers have auto hop, and of those, half don't know how to use it, a quarter don't like it, and many want to watch prime time that night, so we're down to about 98,000 viewers who are affected."
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#27 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

I skip commercials sometimes too... and would probably use AutoHop... but the point that keeps being missed is the ultimate price to home viewers.

Once this starts to eat into the price of advertising (companies stop paying high prices for commercial spots on TV)... then one of a few likely scenarios will emerge:

1. More product placement in the shows... this doesn't bother me, but some complain about seeing product placement in their TV shows.

2. More cost to customers when channels raise prices to the providers to get back money they are losing from advertisers... everybody will complain when prices go up.

3. Channels get dropped, perhaps permanently... again, everybody will complain if their favorite channel goes away.

Skipping commercials was better when it was "behind the scenes" and you might not use the skip button... or you might leave the room but you might not. With AutoHop, and one button press you don't have to see any commercials and don't have to actively engage yourself to skip them... and that will become something measurable that companies will use to stop paying for advertising at some point.



I wonder how this affects some other ends of the spectrum.


For instance I have a partnered youtube account through a gaming network where I take a 60/40 cut in my favor of ad earnings but have extra options for gearing my ads closer to my viewer demographics tastes.

I wonder if when the AH starts to get more widespread (you just know the other companies were just waiting to see the ruling on these cases) will the ads start to pay more to the youtube market..

Heres hoping... it pays my bills xD

#28 OFFLINE   rocat1997

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:56 AM

How about this. Dish gets rid of auto hop but the networks agree to less commercials per hour. Maybe 3 mins every 20 mins. Not 4-5 minutes every 10 mins.

#29 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

Dad... Mom says I can't have an injunction....

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#30 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

OK, son. Just go to your room and wait.....
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#31 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Worth noting... and I'm surprised nobody brought it up before...

Take another look at that AutoHop logo from Dish... and note how the kangaroo is looking over his shoulder.

Wonder why he might be doing that? ;)

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#32 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

Broadcasters are not fighting the consumer to prevent him from skipping commercials. They are fighting the corporation that is skipping the commercials for the consumer.

(Maybe it's like driving down the freeway and not looking at the billboards, versus somebody planting trees in front of the billboards, to block the view of them. It devalues the advertising revenue of the sign company, and makes them have to put up a bigger/higher sign.)

#33 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:52 AM

somebody planting trees in front of the billboards, to block the view of them.


Sounds like a great idea to me.
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#34 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

I see a day in which there are commercial overlays on the TV shows to ensure we see them, as more people skip commercials. It is already infuriating to me to be watching a TV show and have Matthew Perry or someone walking across the bottom of the screen, winking as a banner advertising his TV show scrolls across the screen. In the middle of another show. It's a small step from that to Depends ads doing the same thing.

And then I will long for the days of regular commercials and nothing on the screen as I watch a show.

#35 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

Broadcasters are not fighting the consumer to prevent him from skipping commercials. They are fighting the corporation that is skipping the commercials for the consumer.

Semantics, but the broadcasters are fighting against consumers having the option to skip commercials. Every time one plays an AutoHOP enabled recording the default is not to automatically skip commercials ... it is the consumer's choice to use the feature.

The problem that given a choice viewers WILL skip commercials isn't the fault of DISH ... it is the fault of the broadcasters for taking away so much of the hour that people are weary of seeing them. Viewers have worn out their skip forward buttons. DISH is just providing the service consumers want with less wear and tear on the remote.

(Maybe it's like driving down the freeway and not looking at the billboards, versus somebody planting trees in front of the billboards, to block the view of them. It devalues the advertising revenue of the sign company, and makes them have to put up a bigger/higher sign.)

Fortunately there are highway beautification laws that prevent bigger/higher signs. Perhaps we need TV beautification laws to limit commercials.

#36 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

Fortunately there are highway beautification laws that prevent bigger/higher signs. Perhaps we need TV beautification laws to limit commercials.


Now that's something I could get behind. Lady Bird Johnson, come back; we need you! :confused:
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#37 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

Copies of Fox programs that DISH makes as part of its "quality assurance" of AutoHop's functionality likely violate the RTC between DISH and Fox....

What is the definition of "Quality Assurance" in this context?
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#38 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

What is the definition of "Quality Assurance" in this context?

I read it as DISH verifying that AutoHOP is working correctly by looking at stored copies of Fox programming. It sounds like something that should be allowed in a contract (recording for quality assurance purposes) but perhaps it was not spelled out. (And the reference is to a contract between DISH and Fox, not Federal law, so it is a guess as to what the contract actually allows.)

#39 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

Limiting the commercials will just mean that the quality of the programming (and the mechanisms for transmitting it) will suffer.
Programming costs money, equipment costs money, and talented people cost money.

Unless you're the BBC (with license fees), you can't make quality without advertising revenue and retrans fees. And, even the BBC is now talking about running ads, to make up for some of their massive budget cuts.

#40 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

It seems like a lot of TV is turning to crap anyways ... I suppose that is a good thing about increased commercial load. Less crap between commercials. :)

If you increase the quality of the programming and reduce the commercial load I'll watch the commercials. But at the current level of commercials there is no way. It is already bad enough that the shows are hard to follow due to the breaks. If I had to watch commercials I'd wouldn't watch the shows.

Hopper or not ... I'm going to avoid commercials. It is inevitable. And I am not alone.




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