Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

DISH Cheers Ruling on AutoHop, PrimeTime Anytime


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#26 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Never say 'never'.

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,366 posts
  • LocationWinters, CA, between Napa and Sacramento
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

Good points.

I can just see a fee negotiating session.....

"But you have all those people skipping our ads!"

"No, not many at all. Only 12% of our customers have auto hop, and of those, half don't know how to use it, a quarter don't like it, and many want to watch prime time that night, so we're down to about 98,000 viewers who are affected."
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#27 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

Inkosaurus

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 678 posts
Joined: Jul 29, 2011

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

I skip commercials sometimes too... and would probably use AutoHop... but the point that keeps being missed is the ultimate price to home viewers.

Once this starts to eat into the price of advertising (companies stop paying high prices for commercial spots on TV)... then one of a few likely scenarios will emerge:

1. More product placement in the shows... this doesn't bother me, but some complain about seeing product placement in their TV shows.

2. More cost to customers when channels raise prices to the providers to get back money they are losing from advertisers... everybody will complain when prices go up.

3. Channels get dropped, perhaps permanently... again, everybody will complain if their favorite channel goes away.

Skipping commercials was better when it was "behind the scenes" and you might not use the skip button... or you might leave the room but you might not. With AutoHop, and one button press you don't have to see any commercials and don't have to actively engage yourself to skip them... and that will become something measurable that companies will use to stop paying for advertising at some point.



I wonder how this affects some other ends of the spectrum.


For instance I have a partnered youtube account through a gaming network where I take a 60/40 cut in my favor of ad earnings but have extra options for gearing my ads closer to my viewer demographics tastes.

I wonder if when the AH starts to get more widespread (you just know the other companies were just waiting to see the ruling on these cases) will the ads start to pay more to the youtube market..

Heres hoping... it pays my bills xD

#28 OFFLINE   rocat1997

rocat1997

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 34 posts
Joined: May 17, 2011

Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:56 AM

How about this. Dish gets rid of auto hop but the networks agree to less commercials per hour. Maybe 3 mins every 20 mins. Not 4-5 minutes every 10 mins.

#29 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

Stuart Sweet

    The Shadow Knows!

  • Super Moderators
  • 36,960 posts
Joined: Jun 18, 2006

Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

Dad... Mom says I can't have an injunction....

http://www.multichan...-circuit/140226
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#30 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Never say 'never'.

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,366 posts
  • LocationWinters, CA, between Napa and Sacramento
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

OK, son. Just go to your room and wait.....
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#31 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 20,265 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Worth noting... and I'm surprised nobody brought it up before...

Take another look at that AutoHop logo from Dish... and note how the kangaroo is looking over his shoulder.

Wonder why he might be doing that? ;)

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#32 OFFLINE   kenglish

kenglish

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 973 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah, USA
Joined: Oct 02, 2004

Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

Broadcasters are not fighting the consumer to prevent him from skipping commercials. They are fighting the corporation that is skipping the commercials for the consumer.

(Maybe it's like driving down the freeway and not looking at the billboards, versus somebody planting trees in front of the billboards, to block the view of them. It devalues the advertising revenue of the sign company, and makes them have to put up a bigger/higher sign.)

#33 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

SayWhat?

    Know Nothing

  • Registered
  • 5,894 posts
Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:52 AM

somebody planting trees in front of the billboards, to block the view of them.


Sounds like a great idea to me.
Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#34 OFFLINE   fudpucker

fudpucker

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 721 posts
  • LocationNW Iowa
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

I see a day in which there are commercial overlays on the TV shows to ensure we see them, as more people skip commercials. It is already infuriating to me to be watching a TV show and have Matthew Perry or someone walking across the bottom of the screen, winking as a banner advertising his TV show scrolls across the screen. In the middle of another show. It's a small step from that to Depends ads doing the same thing.

And then I will long for the days of regular commercials and nothing on the screen as I watch a show.

#35 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 40,972 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

Broadcasters are not fighting the consumer to prevent him from skipping commercials. They are fighting the corporation that is skipping the commercials for the consumer.

Semantics, but the broadcasters are fighting against consumers having the option to skip commercials. Every time one plays an AutoHOP enabled recording the default is not to automatically skip commercials ... it is the consumer's choice to use the feature.

The problem that given a choice viewers WILL skip commercials isn't the fault of DISH ... it is the fault of the broadcasters for taking away so much of the hour that people are weary of seeing them. Viewers have worn out their skip forward buttons. DISH is just providing the service consumers want with less wear and tear on the remote.

(Maybe it's like driving down the freeway and not looking at the billboards, versus somebody planting trees in front of the billboards, to block the view of them. It devalues the advertising revenue of the sign company, and makes them have to put up a bigger/higher sign.)

Fortunately there are highway beautification laws that prevent bigger/higher signs. Perhaps we need TV beautification laws to limit commercials.

#36 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Never say 'never'.

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,366 posts
  • LocationWinters, CA, between Napa and Sacramento
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

Fortunately there are highway beautification laws that prevent bigger/higher signs. Perhaps we need TV beautification laws to limit commercials.


Now that's something I could get behind. Lady Bird Johnson, come back; we need you! :confused:
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#37 OFFLINE   Michael P

Michael P

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,959 posts
Joined: Oct 27, 2004

Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

Copies of Fox programs that DISH makes as part of its "quality assurance" of AutoHop's functionality likely violate the RTC between DISH and Fox....

What is the definition of "Quality Assurance" in this context?
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#38 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 40,972 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:14 PM

What is the definition of "Quality Assurance" in this context?

I read it as DISH verifying that AutoHOP is working correctly by looking at stored copies of Fox programming. It sounds like something that should be allowed in a contract (recording for quality assurance purposes) but perhaps it was not spelled out. (And the reference is to a contract between DISH and Fox, not Federal law, so it is a guess as to what the contract actually allows.)

#39 OFFLINE   kenglish

kenglish

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 973 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah, USA
Joined: Oct 02, 2004

Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

Limiting the commercials will just mean that the quality of the programming (and the mechanisms for transmitting it) will suffer.
Programming costs money, equipment costs money, and talented people cost money.

Unless you're the BBC (with license fees), you can't make quality without advertising revenue and retrans fees. And, even the BBC is now talking about running ads, to make up for some of their massive budget cuts.

#40 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 40,972 posts
  • LocationMichiana
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

It seems like a lot of TV is turning to crap anyways ... I suppose that is a good thing about increased commercial load. Less crap between commercials. :)

If you increase the quality of the programming and reduce the commercial load I'll watch the commercials. But at the current level of commercials there is no way. It is already bad enough that the shows are hard to follow due to the breaks. If I had to watch commercials I'd wouldn't watch the shows.

Hopper or not ... I'm going to avoid commercials. It is inevitable. And I am not alone.

#41 OFFLINE   rocat1997

rocat1997

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 34 posts
Joined: May 17, 2011

Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

Quality of programming. Interesting subject. Quality is quite low. Most channels run movies from many years ago. Plus they run them over and over and over. Quality is at its lowest. We pay for tons of commercials and old programming we've seen a dozen times. I read an article a couple of months ago that cable will be at $200 a month by the year 2020. Satellites not far behind. i believe this as we are heading their already. I don't have every channel and am already at $130. I used to pay $50 for dish. Granted I didn't have a dvr at the time, but, don't feel that it's worth $80 a month. Plus more commercials and reruns.

#42 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 20,265 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

That begs the obvious question... if you think current tv is overpriced and only shows old stuff that you don't want to watch... then why would you be subscribing now?

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#43 OFFLINE   rocat1997

rocat1997

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 34 posts
Joined: May 17, 2011

Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

Good question. I do pay a big price to not watch it. I primarily watch hgtv, DIY, and our locals. Also, some hbo. My wife only watches encore westerns. she likes old stuff. Truthfully, it is too expensive.

#44 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Topic Starter
  • Moderators
  • 20,265 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:07 AM

I hope I didn't seem like a smart-you-know for asking... but it was logical.

I too don't like the price-creeping that keeps going upwards slowly but surely... but for the moment am still happy with the value I get for the price I pay.

One day that might change, though, and I'll be asking myself that very "is it worth it" question.

-- !rotaredoM mA eM

What I do when I'm not here


#45 OFFLINE   djlong

djlong

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,266 posts
  • LocationNew Hampshire
Joined: Jul 08, 2002

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

If it wasn't for the DVR, I doubt I'd have a subscription these days.

When I was growing up, it was 6 minutes of commercials per hour. Now it's almost 20.

I can count the number of 'live' (non-sports) programs that I've watched in the past year on one hand. When my wife and I were watching a show live, she commented on how jarring it was to be FORCED to watch commercials, as opposed to seeing one flip by and MAYBE being interested enough to go back and watch it.

I've watched MAYBE two or three sports programs live and I end up putting them on pause and going to do something else, then returning when I can skip the 'dead time'.

#46 OFFLINE   Wilf

Wilf

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Oct 15, 2008

Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:34 AM

When I was growing up, it was 6 minutes of commercials per hour. Now it's almost 20.

That is one of reasons it was called the "Golden Age of Television." Television was B&W, and screens were small, but the programs were not fragmented like they are now. Even many of the commercials were entertaining.

#47 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Never say 'never'.

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,366 posts
  • LocationWinters, CA, between Napa and Sacramento
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:18 AM

That is one of reasons it was called the "Golden Age of Television." Television was B&W, and screens were small, but the programs were not fragmented like they are now. Even many of the commercials were entertaining.


It was golden because it was live, it was novel, and all commercials were "new".

You could barely see the football, much less a tennis ball or hockey puck.

And, yes, there was much to be like about TV in the 50's, but I think there's much to be liked today. Esp. with a good DVR.....
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#48 OFFLINE   Grandude

Grandude

    RichardParker II

  • Registered
  • 895 posts
Joined: Oct 21, 2004

Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:08 AM

Hopper or not ... I'm going to avoid commercials. It is inevitable. And I am not alone.

You certainly aren't alone. I also have a use for the standard 30 second skip.
If I want to watch a football game that isn't important enough for me to watch live, I record it and use the 30 second skip at the end of each play which brings me to the start of the next play. Almost perfect. I can watch a game in one hour instead of the 3 1/2 hours live.

I also installed a HDHOMERUN (thanks to your suggestion JL) and have another way to record and watch events on my PCs.

My next step, now that the OTA dongle for the H/J systems has arrived, I can get serious about getting upgraded from my VIPs. Cabling nightmares ahead untangling the mess I have now.:grin:

Brian...reporting from the left coast
 2 Hoppers,1 Joey, 1 VIP211K active receivers
 I still believe in magic
!


#49 OFFLINE   TMan

TMan

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 209 posts
Joined: Oct 30, 2007

Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

Television viewing without a DVR has become an almost intolerable exercise. The continuity is so jarring with the long, frequent commercial breaks. Not to mention that roughly one third of the viewing time is not even the program itself. It almost feels like theft of my time and attention.

I don't watch much sports, but even then, I prefer to get well behind live TV and zip through downtime and commercials and catch up before the game ends. A football game is one hour on the game clock, yet its broadcast regularly exceeds three, though obviously part of that is the nature of the game with normal clock stoppages. Grandude is quite right about the convenience of 30-sec. skip being almost perfect between plays.

Someday, the lawyers and networks and providers will all conspire to disable our precious fast forward buttons. I've been a DVR user since 2003, and it'll be like having my eyeballs propped open in Clockwork Orange. Please pass the eye drops.
October 2012 DirecTV subscriber - HR34(Genie)/C31/C31 - AU9-S-SWM Five LNB - Premier

#50 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Never say 'never'.

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,366 posts
  • LocationWinters, CA, between Napa and Sacramento
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:30 AM

I'll bet you 30:1 that FF will survive any nonsense.

And the actual play time of a FB game is under 15 minutes.... that is, leaving out the time between whistling a dead ball and the next snap.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...