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Guest Message by DevFuse

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**I need help**300 feet cable run using a Directv SWM STSTEM, or?


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75 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:42 AM

5 Dish brackets were installed last week! Custom made for 5 building tenants. We were grandfathered in by management....And i totally appreciate what they did for me. But i now have an issue with my 5 LNB dish and distance. The brackets were placed 300 feet away from my location. I did the cable run on a SWM SYSTEM with minimum issue, just that my DB is to high (51) A friend of mine that works for dish network came over to check the cable run and DB. He found the DB way to high. My signal looks great till now (satellite 101, 100%) on transponder 18.

Thursday i have a CEDIA Certified, Licensed Telecommunications Wiring Contractor, SBCA Satellite Certified Installer
Licensed & Insured in NJ, NY, & PA calling me with a estimate and job description. He also recommend me to switch from SWM system to directv 4 output legacy 5lnb and run 4 cables at 300 feet each= total of 1200 feet of cable :eek2: and run a 8x16 switch i think.

I will ask for his thoughts on

- RG6Quad or RG11? brand wires?

- "Steren Electronics" grip-clip single cable mounting clip with stainless steel screw,

- amplifier? If future aging of cable is a factor what is the average cost for you to replace?

- Would HD receivers performance be less than 100% because of the distance?

- Would DVR receivers (currently not using ) performance be less than 100% because of the distance?


By doing research i found this amp, with SWM
http://www.weaknees....WM_with_amp.jpg

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#2 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:39 AM

Custom mounts are always... interesting. The regular mount is designed to be used with monopoles, even when the base is secure. You may want to consider a low profile mount: http://www.solidsign...ount-(STUBMNTR)

Legacy would struggle at 300ft of RG6.

SWM would also struggle, but would likely be the way to go.

Power on SWM would be a concern. You may want to go with a PI-29 instead of a PI-21. http://www.solidsign...SWM-16-(PI-29Z)

RG11 would give you about 10 dB less loss over 300ft at 2150 mHz.

More info about the setup would be needed to properly tell if something will work for you. If you only have 1 HD receiver, SWM LNB -> 300ft SCC RG6 -> PI29 -> 10ft RG6 -> IRD, would get the job done, but would not leave room for expansion.

Coax loss calculator: http://www.net-combe...cable-loss.html
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#3 OFFLINE   PokerJoker

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:37 AM

Whatever you do, make SURE that you use coax with a solid copper core, NOT the much more common CCS or copper-coated steel. I mistakenly used CCS once and a SWM run had low-signal dropouts at only 150 ft - and SWM runs are much more forgiving than legacy LNB runs. Directv specifies Perfect Vision RG6 Solid Copper coax with PPC EX6XL compression connectors. Both are good stuff. Do not under any circumstances use crimp or twist-on connectors.

Quad shield is 1) a pain to use and 2) very seldom used in satellite installs, unless you live next to a transmitter or something like that.

RG11 solid copper is the way to go for long runs, it's just expensive and stiff. It will need a different strip tool and specific connectors because it is larger.

Keith

#4 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

Well, i have 3 D-12 standard directv receivers and 1HD H24-700. I also wanted to prepare for the future if one day i decide on upgrading to DVR/HD receivers.

This morning i spoke with the SBCA Satellite Certified Installer
Licensed & Insured in NJ, NY, & PA. He told me this morning that he had a talk over the phone with few techs from ditectv. He was told to switch me from SWN to a 4 orange output LNB with built in AMP's, a LNB that directv will have to ship and a 6x8 switch.

I wanna know if this Installer is correct? or should i stick with my SWM and add a rg11 cable?

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#5 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

I wanna know if this Installer is correct? or should i stick with my SWM and add a rg11 cable?

There are several ways to do this.

"I would" stay with the SWiM.
RG6 @ 300' and the high end loss is a good 26 dB, where RG11 is 18 dB.

26 doesn't leave you much room for anything.

Something like this would help: http://www.solidsign...50-Mhz-(SWMA2T)

A mix of this amp & RG11 should solve everything.
A.K.A VOS

#6 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:23 PM

This is a matter that's somewhat subjective. I don't want to say the other guy is right or wrong. I'll say from my point of view you would be unwise to move away from a SWM system when DIRECTV is moving away from the legacy multiswitches very quickly. In my opinion RG11 cable with an LA141R-T or SWMA2 amplifier is the way to go here, and stay with a SWM system.

With a long run you may run into issues if you decide to go with multi-room viewing, and there really isn't a product out there to address that effectively yet. However, this amp should give you adequate signal to the receiver while giving enough strength to the return path signal that SWMs need.
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#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

With a long run you may run into issues if you decide to go with multi-room viewing, and there really isn't a product out there to address that effectively yet. However, this amp should give you adequate signal to the receiver while giving enough strength to the return path signal that SWMs need.

The long runs "shouldn't be" an issue "if" they aren't after the splitter.
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

About this switch. http://www.solidsign...c=Multiswitches

I have a question... The switch above, when installing the "DIRECTV SWM-8 Single Wire Multi-Switch" Do i leave this switch behind with the dish are do i run this switch with the 300 feet cable run then use the "DIRECTV SWS-8 Satellite 8-Way " http://www.solidsign...llite Splitters

and include

"Sonora SWMA2-T Sing Input SWM Amplifier"
http://www.solidsign..._source=k244266

OR leave as is and just include the Sonora SWMA2-T Sing Input SWIM Amplifier with my all ready SWIM system?

#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:26 PM

About this switch. http://www.solidsign...c=Multiswitches

I have a question... The switch above, when installing the "DIRECTV SWM-8 Single Wire Multi-Switch" Do i leave this switch behind with the dish are do i run this switch with the 300 feet cable run then use the "DIRECTV SWS-8 Satellite 8-Way " http://www.solidsign...llite Splitters

and include

"Sonora SWMA2-T Sing Input SWM Amplifier"
http://www.solidsign..._source=k244266

OR leave as is and just include the Sonora SWMA2-T Sing Input SWIM Amplifier with my all ready SWIM system?

Your first link is to a whole page of switches, but I'm guessing you're looking at the SWM8.
The SWM8 is the same as the SWiM LNB, so I don't see a reason to change.
300' of RG6 is a bit long even with that Sonora amp, as the SWiMLNB has about -30 dBm, the 300' has -26 dB and the amp has 13, which means -43 dBm. -43 dBm is "OK", but then the loss of the splitter and coax to the receivers can't be that much. You've got maybe 15 dB of loss to play with, which means one 4-way and 50' before you're pushing it.

If this works, then dish --> PI & amp --> splitter --> receivers.
A.K.A VOS

#10 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

Thanks buddy!

I meant SWM8, sorry. Should i buy the PI-29 instead of a PI-21 like dielray stated? And use pi-29 with my green label DIRECTV SWS-4 Satellite 4-Way or just keep the the pi-21?

Thanks

Your first link is to a whole page of switches, but I'm guessing you're looking at the SWM8.
The SWM8 is the same as the SWiM LNB, so I don't see a reason to change.
300' of RG6 is a bit long even with that Sonora amp, as the SWiMLNB has about -30 dBm, the 300' has -26 dB and the amp has 13, which means -43 dBm. -43 dBm is "OK", but then the loss of the splitter and coax to the receivers can't be that much. You've got maybe 15 dB of loss to play with, which means one 4-way and 50' before you're pushing it.

If this works, then dish --> PI & amp --> splitter --> receivers.



#11 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:20 PM

In my opinion you can't go wrong with the PI29. It just gives a little extra juice to the dish which is what it needs in these marginal situations.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
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#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:26 PM

Thanks buddy!

I meant SWM8, sorry. Should i buy the PI-29 instead of a PI-21 like dielray stated? And use pi-29 with my green label DIRECTV SWS-4 Satellite 4-Way or just keep the the pi-21?

Thanks


In my opinion you can't go wrong with the PI29. It just gives a little extra juice to the dish which is what it needs in these marginal situations.

I'd go so far as to say "you'll go wrong" with the 21 volt over 300'
A.K.A VOS

#13 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

Finalizing my order and turn this over to my building management company in case the other estimate from SBCA Satellite Certified Installer fails. I'll just tell management i can do the job myself by purchasing equipment and pass the bill on to them..

Will this sound right with added below links?

Thanks.

PI-29
http://www.solidsign..._source=k244266

SWMA2T-Sing-Input-SWM-Amplifier
http://www.solidsign...Amplifiers&sku=

RG6 CABLE
http://www.solidsign...ku=610370580981

---OR----

RG11 CABLE
http://www.solidsign...(S1D60VV-B-R1K)
RG11 CABLE

Edited by direcdt, 08 November 2012 - 08:58 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:52 PM

Looks good "BUT" the RG11 isn't solid copper core and solid signal doesn't seem to stock it, so:
http://www.a1compone...sky11c95rb.aspx
A.K.A VOS

#15 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

Wow! Thanks veryoldschool. Is that the best cable brand? You know what i can't find for the rg11 cable
"steren clips" Grip-Clip Single Cable Mounting Clip with Stainless Steel Screw

http://www.provantag...bk~7STEN164.htm

Thanks


Looks good "BUT" the RG11 isn't solid copper core and solid signal doesn't seem to stock it, so:
http://www.a1compone...sky11c95rb.aspx



#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

I'm familiar with Skywalker [they make good stuff], but not that cable.

Solid copper core RG11 isn't too common because RG11 is mostly used for CATV, which doesn't care about DC power, as they use AC power.

Can't help with the clips, "but" RG11 is only about 0.1" larger in diameter from RG6.
A.K.A VOS

#17 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

Great. I found the clips for rg11.
http://www.arrisisto....php?pid=209457

Please give me your best suggestion on a cable i should use?

Thanks


I'm familiar with Skywalker [they make good stuff], but not that cable.

Solid copper core RG11 isn't too common because RG11 is mostly used for CATV, which doesn't care about DC power, as they use AC power.

Can't help with the clips, "but" RG11 is only about 0.1" larger in diameter from RG6.



#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

Great. I found the clips for rg11.
http://www.arrisisto....php?pid=209457

Please give me your best suggestion on a cable i should use?

Thanks

I'm having the cable verified as to what is and isn't solid copper core, but it won't happen until tomorrow.
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

Thanks buddy. I will wait for your approval on the cable.

I'm having the cable verified as to what is and isn't solid copper core, but it won't happen until tomorrow.



#20 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

One thing i noticed. the DIRECTV SWM-PI 29V works for SWM-8 and SWM-16. I have the SWM-4. Will the DIRECTV SWM-PI 29V still work on the SWM-4 SWITCH?




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