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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Are any receivers responsive?


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544 replies to this topic

#261 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

This should put them on par with U-verse and for those wanting to "A-B" Dish with DirecTV, they should turn native off for it.

For those without very fancy TVs or outboard scalers, native off is probably the best choice anyway.

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#262 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:23 PM

For those without very fancy TVs or outboard scalers, native off is probably the best choice anyway.

I use both, as I have a good TV, and one that isn't so much.
It's fairly obvious that U-verse isn't looking at the higher end of the market, and are merely trying to be better than cable.
A.K.A VOS

#263 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

So I've got some different firmware right now and reran channel changing times.

My TV takes 2 sec to change HD from its antenna.

My DVR with native on, has slowed to about 6 sec changing channels that are different resolution.
Turning native off has any channel change take 3 or less seconds.
SD to SD doesn't look to take the 2 sec my TV does for HD.

These were timed by using the guide to select a channel, and then using the previous button to toggle. Press and count 1, 2 ,3, ... until video displays. Audio came much faster.

I haven't had any Dish HD, but have had U-verse. U-verse doesn't give the user the native on feature.
Does dish?


I've never even seen a Dish DVR.

Rich

#264 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

My neighbor has the Hopper and my daughter has DISH (no Hopper). Those DVRs are faster than my HR22 when in the guide and/or channeling channels. However, my HR22 is not always slow. At times, it is decent and acceptable (but never fast). I just haven't been able to see any pattern to when it performs faster.

Also, you mention earlier about the HR24 speed. It seems most people feel that is fast (compared to the 22).


I've only had one 22-100. When I got it and activated it, I was stunned by how well it worked. FF two weeks and I had a non-functioning 22-100. With the HDD empty it was as fast as any HR I'd had up to that time, but as I added content, it slowed up and I finally gave up on it. By that time it wouldn't even respond to either IR or RF remote input.

The 24s are just faster than all their predecessors. In every way. And, apparently, as reliable as a good 20-700.

Rich

#265 OFFLINE   wrj

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

For those without very fancy TVs or outboard scalers, native off is probably the best choice anyway.


Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.

#266 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.


I have 8 Panny plasmas and all are set to native on. PQs fine on each of them.

Rich

#267 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:57 PM

Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.


I simplest form...

Different channels broadcast at different resolutions.

Almost all displays only show one Particular resolution.

This means either the directv receiver, the TV, or some other device between them will be making the resolutions all the same so that the TV can show the picture.

Native on sends the original resolution to the TV or other device, and then let's the TV or other device do all the converting.

Native off means you set the resolution out, preferably to the native resolution of the TV, (otherwise it would still have to convert again) and the DIRECTV receiver does all the converting.

The big deal is that if you leave native on, the TV has to change its input resolutions and re handshake via hdmi to show the new channel at the new resolution being output by the receiver, which takes more time to do, than if the directv receiver always sends out the same resolution.

Personally, I won't use native on.

#268 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:59 PM

Help me understand, what does "native off" or "native on" do? I have it set to "off" on my panasonic plasma which is capable of 1080p.

Harsh is a Dish sub, so was a good one for the question about theirs.

As to native "on":
What this does is same the same resolution the channel was broadcast in to the TV. Since the broadcasters use SD 480i, HD 720p & 1080i, this will cause the receiver to constantly change the output as needed.

If you have a 1080p TV, you may just set the output to 1080, and turn native off so the receiver always scales everything to 1080. Only shows that are 1080p/24 will output in 1080p, if you select it in the setup menu.

Why some use native on is their TV can give a better picture by doing the scaling with the TV, or their AVR, so they don't want the receiver to do anything to change the resolution.
A.K.A VOS

#269 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:58 AM

I have two HR24-500s. Both are set with Native-On, Scrolling Effects-Off, All Resolutions selected and both are connected to AV/receivers via HDMI cable. Current software on both is 0x05d2. Time frame for channel changes, HD-HD 5 seconds, HD-SD 7seconds, SD-SD 3 seconds. Considering my settings and what takes place when I change channels I'd say they are pretty fast. The only slow features are the Active Channel and TV Apps. And from what I've read, the new national release (0x062c) is improving speed.


You've missed the point. Although it USUALLY takes that amount of time, at random times for no obvious reason it takes an additional 5- 30 seconds, mainly because the receiver becomes totally unresponsive. Not everyone is affected by this, but quite a few are.

Also, those times are for the fastest DVR D* has (aside from the THR22), which means the average D* customer is experiencing slower times.

With native on, the times for FIOS are either <500 ms or 3 s, depending on if the new channel is same res. as old channel. If native is off, then every channel change is 300-500 ms. Seven seconds seems fast, until you get used to 500 ms, then 7 seconds is an eternity.

One thing D* can do is what FIOS does. If the old channel and new channel are the same resolution, and native is on, don't start a new HDMI handshake. Just leave the resolution as is and just change the channel.

#270 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

One thing D* can do is what FIOS does. If the old channel and new channel are the same resolution, and native is on, don't start a new HDMI handshake. Just leave the resolution as is and just change the channel.


That is Brilliant and I hope Directv is reading this Thread (we know they aren't)!!! :D
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#271 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

You've missed the point. Although it USUALLY takes that amount of time, at random times for no obvious reason it takes an additional 5- 30 seconds, mainly because the receiver becomes totally unresponsive. Not everyone is affected by this, but quite a few are.

Also, those times are for the fastest DVR D* has (aside from the THR22), which means the average D* customer is experiencing slower times.

With native on, the times for FIOS are either <500 ms or 3 s, depending on if the new channel is same res. as old channel. If native is off, then every channel change is 300-500 ms. Seven seconds seems fast, until you get used to 500 ms, then 7 seconds is an eternity.

One thing D* can do is what FIOS does. If the old channel and new channel are the same resolution, and native is on, don't start a new HDMI handshake. Just leave the resolution as is and just change the channel.

I have never experienced additional delay times of 5-30 seconds on either of my HR24-500s and I have had them for quite some time.

DirecTV customer since 1995.


#272 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:41 AM

With native on, the times for FIOS are either <500 ms or 3 s, depending on if the new channel is same res. as old channel. If native is off, then every channel change is 300-500 ms. Seven seconds seems fast, until you get used to 500 ms, then 7 seconds is an eternity.

FIOS is using MPEG-2. MPEG-4 takes more processing.
A.K.A VOS

#273 OFFLINE   JeffBowser

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:00 AM

Aye, another reason I'd love to see more processing power thrown at these boxes. Then they can be sloppy in their code all day long, and one won't have to sit for loooong seconds waiting for DVR response.

FIOS is using MPEG-2. MPEG-4 takes more processing.


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#274 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:01 AM

Less than 500 ms

My Sony TV can't change channels this fast with MPEG-2 OTA.
"One, thousand, two," is the fastest it will tune. It's the same for channels that are the same resolution or different resolutions.
A.K.A VOS

#275 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

Aye, another reason I'd love to see more processing power thrown at these boxes. Then they can be sloppy in their code all day long, and one won't have to sit for loooong seconds waiting for DVR response.

I too would like to see native on change channels faster. I just find it hard to believe it needs 3 or 4 secs more for a resolution change.
A.K.A VOS

#276 OFFLINE   JeffBowser

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

My channel change is forever, but I am knowingly turning native on, and enabling all resolutions, simply because my TV does a stellar job of scaling compared to DirecTV. My big beef is interface responsiveness, the long dull wait to access recordings, delete recordings, and in worst case scenarios, long delayed input suddenly all getting processed and things going to hell in a hand-basket, resulting in even further delays. Several times each evening my wife tosses the remote to me in frustration and says "here, you do it!" because she's inputting, expecting a response, and when none comes, starts inputting again.

I too would like to see native on change channels faster. I just find it hard to believe it needs 3 or 4 secs more for a resolution change.


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#277 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

My big beef is interface responsiveness, the long dull wait to access recordings, delete recordings, and in worst case scenarios, long delayed input suddenly all getting processed and things going to hell in a hand-basket, resulting in even further delays. Several times each evening my wife tosses the remote to me in frustration and says "here, you do it!" because she's inputting, expecting a response, and when none comes, starts inputting again.

I just don't have this problem.
I have tested some [bad] software, and been able to send a receiver to "never never land", but it's been rare, and goes with the territory.
A.K.A VOS

#278 OFFLINE   JeffBowser

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

Yeah, I know. I've followed all the threads (silently for the most part).

I just don't have this problem.
I have tested some [bad] software, and been able to send a receiver to "never never land", but it's been rare, and goes with the territory.


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#279 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

My channel change is forever, but I am knowingly turning native on, and enabling all resolutions, simply because my TV does a stellar job of scaling compared to DirecTV. My big beef is interface responsiveness, the long dull wait to access recordings, delete recordings, and in worst case scenarios, long delayed input suddenly all getting processed and things going to hell in a hand-basket, resulting in even further delays. Several times each evening my wife tosses the remote to me in frustration and says "here, you do it!" because she's inputting, expecting a response, and when none comes, starts inputting again.


What units do you have again? And how well ventilated and old are they?

#280 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

What units do you have again? And how well ventilated and old are they?

Don't talk about his wife that way! !rolling
A.K.A VOS




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