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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Are any receivers responsive?


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544 replies to this topic

#451 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:00 AM

Not to divert the conversation (much)...but those are all HR24-500's.

I suspect it's not so much Quality Control as it is the anomalies of a unique model device. The HR24-500 was the first HD DVR with a one-off manufacturer processor inside. Based on the bumpy road for firmware stability on the -500 devices in its early days (especially compared to all those many other models with Broadcom chips inside), I can't say I'm all that surprised.

The HR24-500 isn't a bad unit at all...many have enjoyed them to date...but it has displayed unique "hiccups" at times which were not found with its Broadcom chip brethren.

All that said...it is fair and reasonable to expect all HD DVRs to basically function properly and demonstrate reasonable performance. What is considered "properly" and "reasonable" are subjective terms that are at the root of most debate on that topic.


I like the 500s now that they've stabilized. But it's not just the 500s I'm talking about. I've really never seen any sign of a good QC program in any of the HRs. Some work well, some don't. Same model, same firmware. How would you like to pick up a cool bottle of beer after a long day and have it explode in your hand? Without a stringent QC program, that would happen more often than you'd believe.

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#452 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

I like the 500s now that they've stabilized. But it's not just the 500s I'm talking about. I've really never seen any sign of a good QC program in any of the HRs. Some work well, some don't. Same model, same firmware. How would you like to pick up a cool bottle of beer after a long day and have it explode in your hand? Without a stringent QC program, that would happen more often than you'd believe.

I'd agree that not all HD DVR boxes are created alike. Like cars (even the luxury brands), you get a bad one now and then. Remember....they make millions of units...and only a fraction of those are referenced here in threads - and many of those as much positive as not. Folks tend to speak up about problems but tend not to post "everything is going just fine thank you" as much.

In addition, it seems certain models have some history with more "issues" than others - which likely has as much to do with certain manufacturer Q/A as anything else. If the firmware's the same and the boxes the same in a series device based on specs, then the only variable is the specific manufacturer for a specific model unit.

There are some manufacturers the DirecTV no longer contracts with for hardware, and also some new ones. We'll see how the newer ones hold up with the test of time...but your point about Q/A being important is absolutely spot on.

Of note - the OP has 2 HR20-100's - quite old devices. I suspect newer units would render a better viewing experience.

Edited by hdtvfan0001, 20 December 2012 - 11:14 AM.

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#453 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:19 AM

I've got six 500s and one of them does seem a bit wacky at times. Not enough for me to return it, but it does bring the subject of quality control into the conversation. I realize that absolute identical performance in any device when compared to another is unreasonable to expect, but out of the 10 or 11 HR24-500s I've had...well, I've got six that work well out of those 10 or 11 and that's not an indication of a good quality control system.
Rich


All 5 of my HR24-500s work Great and are Fast. I might just Replace my 2 HR23-700s down the road. :D
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#454 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:50 AM

I'd agree that not all HD DVR boxes are created alike. Like cars (even the luxury brands), you get a bad one now and then. Remember....they make millions of units...and only a fraction of those are referenced here in threads - and many of those as much positive as not. Folks tend to speak up about problems but tend not to post "everything is going just fine thank you" as much.


Agree with that, I do.

In addition, it seems certain models have some history with more "issues" than others - which likely has as much to do with certain manufacturer Q/A as anything else. If the firmware's the same and the boxes the same in a series device based on specs, then the only variable is the specific manufacturer for a specific model unit.

There are some manufacturers the DirecTV no longer contracts with for hardware, and also some new ones. We'll see how the newer ones hold up with the test of time...but your point about Q/A being important is absolutely spot on.


Yup, can't find anything to argue about there.

Of note - the OP has 2 HR20-100's - quite old devices. I suspect newer units would render a better viewing experience.


Never ceases to amaze me that those things work. Never had a 100 that worked until I got the 24-100s... :lol:

Rich

#455 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:53 AM

All 5 of my HR24-500s work Great and are Fast. I might just Replace my 2 HR23-700s down the road. :D


I'd do that sooner than later. I'd be a bit leery about the 24-100s, it's a PITA to install a 2TB drive internally. And, in some aspects, they're slower than the 500s. Simply put, the 500s are better.

Rich

#456 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

I'd do that sooner than later. I'd be a bit leery about the 24-100s, it's a PITA to install a 2TB drive internally. And, in some aspects, they're slower than the 500s. Simply put, the 500s are better.
Rich


Yes it is better to Own an HR24-500 as it is easier to Replace the Internal Hard Drive in those DVRs and that is a whole lot better than attaching an External Drive Enclosure that periodically will reboot to the Internal Drive. :nono2:
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#457 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:59 PM

I'd do that sooner than later. I'd be a bit leery about the 24-100s, it's a PITA to install a 2TB drive internally. And, in some aspects, they're slower than the 500s. Simply put, the 500s are better.

Rich

It's different...but not hard. Or so I've heard... ;)

For those with owned units and some light experience....both the HR24-500's and HR24-100's are not difficult in terms of internal hard drive upgrades.
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#458 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

For those with owned units and some light experience....both the HR24-500's and HR24-100's are not difficult in terms of internal hard drive upgrades.


Replacing the Internal Hard Drive in my HR24-500s takes about 10 minutes so it is a Piece of Cake. Now I just need to buy me 2 more HR24-500s and I am Done!!!

Stick a Fork in me!!! :lol:
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#459 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

Replacing the Internal Hard Drive in my HR24-500s takes about 10 minutes so it is a Piece of Cake. Now I just need to buy me 2 more HR24-500s and I am Done!!!

Stick a Fork in me!!! :lol:

There are 2 punch lines in there...but we'll just respect the rules and let those pass. :D
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#460 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:01 PM

Users experience is different.

If you have, say, a stock HR20-700 and a HR20-700 with a 2TB Hard Drive the performance is dramatically different. The unit with the 2TB Hard Drive will take up to 15 minutes or so longer to boot.

If your hard drive is filled up with programming your response rates are different than if you have 90% free. If you have a 2TB with 10% free, you will really wait....wait.....wait issues.

As thus, many can report their unit is fine - while others can report all kinds of issues - because of the number of programs on the dvr and the capacity of the Hard Drive.

#461 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:44 PM

Users experience is different.

If you have, say, a stock HR20-700 and a HR20-700 with a 2TB Hard Drive the performance is dramatically different. The unit with the 2TB Hard Drive will take up to 15 minutes or so longer to boot.

The specific Hard Disk Drive chosen alone could make a major difference as described....low cache, low spin rate, cheaper internal motor or electronics, etc. can impact results. Not just any 2 TB drive works well in an HD DVR. More recently, manufacturers are even modifying certain models specifically for video playback purposes.

None of those things have anything to do with the HD DVR itself, but will certainly impact performance.
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#462 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:06 AM

The specific Hard Disk Drive chosen alone could make a major difference as described....low cache, low spin rate, cheaper internal motor or electronics, etc. can impact results. Not just any 2 TB drive works well in an HD DVR. More recently, manufacturers are even modifying certain models specifically for video playback purposes.

None of those things have anything to do with the HD DVR itself, but will certainly impact performance.


EXACTLY!!! I have Replaced 4 HR24-500s (Owned) Internal Drives with 2 TB WD Drives with a Larger Cache and my Performance was Enhanced. :D
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#463 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:11 AM

Users experience is different.

If you have, say, a stock HR20-700 and a HR20-700 with a 2TB Hard Drive the performance is dramatically different. The unit with the 2TB Hard Drive will take up to 15 minutes or so longer to boot.


Wrong. It boots up just as fast or faster.

If your hard drive is filled up with programming your response rates are different than if you have 90% free. If you have a 2TB with 10% free, you will really wait....wait.....wait issues.


We've recommended not going over 30% free for several years now. From that point on you will *probably* see slowdowns.

As thus, many can report their unit is fine - while others can report all kinds of issues - because of the number of programs on the dvr and the capacity of the Hard Drive.


Think that might be because some folks don't listen to those who have been down that road before?

Rich

#464 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:25 AM

EXACTLY!!! I have Replaced 4 HR24-500s (Owned) Internal Drives with 2 TB WD Drives with a Larger Cache and my Performance was Enhanced. :D


Same thing happens when you put a 2TB in a 20-700. It just works better.

Rich

#465 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:59 AM

Same thing happens when you put a 2TB in a 20-700. It just works better.

Rich

Yeah - it typically comes down to using a cheapy drive and pray for the best or using a proper one with a good spin rate and larger cache size. Plopping in just any drive one finds on sale doesn't do the trick.
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#466 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

Yeah - it typically comes down to using a cheapy drive and pray for the best or using a proper one with a good spin rate and larger cache size. Plopping in just any drive one finds on sale doesn't do the trick.


EXACTLY!!!

Put in a Better, Faster and More Efficient Drive with a Larger Cache and you will Achieve Better Performance!!!

It ain't Rocket Science and Lamelefty would agree!!! :lol:
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#467 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

An update on the disconnecting from network and reseting the network settings as discussed below...

Made it 12 days this time... On Christmas eve I picked up the remote hit list and started scrolling down the list. On about the 4th line down it just stopped. The video/audio kept playing in the window but it wouldn't respond to any remote buttons or front panel buttons. The clock stuck at 11:44... I just let it sit and after 5 minutes it came back to life... Clock updated to 11:49 and some of the previous button pushes were executed.

During the 5 minute nap the receiver kept recording without a hitch.

About 20 minutes later the receiver started missing remote commands... I tried to get to 'reset' in the menu but finally just got frustrated and did a red-button-reboot. Hasn't had any trouble since but if I don't restart it I'm sure the same thing will happen January 3rd or so.....

I've moved the future SL recordings over to the other two DVRs - at least the ones I care about - but I still have a bunch of stuff to watch before I attempt to get them to replace it.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I convince a CSR that I need to have the HR24 replaced? Also that it needs to be an HR24 and not anything else? I can give them the 'It just won't power up' story but I'd rather not. I guess either way once they get my flakey HR24 back they'll just turn it on, erase everything - test it for maybe 10 minutes (if that!) and call it good. Box it up and ship it out to some other poor sap that will think life is good for about 10 days or so... I wonder how many people will be tortured with this thing after I send it back?!:nono:





Mike, I can't remember, but I hope you've tried disconnecting from the Internet for a good long while and resetting all network defaults on all your machines and leaveit disconnected and seen if the problem goes away. 4 to 5 minutes just smells like something else is going on that none of us are seeing.


I haven't tried recently. I can disconnect the Internet permanently. I've only used 'on-demand' a few times because it is sooo slow.

In fact first thing in the morning before anything is recording I'll shut all three DVRs down, remove the Internet connection and then boot the receivers up one at a time.

It will be 10 or so days before I know if it improved but it is worth a shot.

Thanks.


I'd also make sure you restore all network defaults.

Yeah,at this point, what's the worst that could happen? :)


I have disconnected the Internet and reset the network connections on all three of my HR24-500s. We'll see if it makes a difference in about 10 days or so!



#468 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

Mike, sign up for the Protection Plan if you don't already have it and you will get a Replacement HR24 for the HR24 that doesn't work.

And I would tell them that it is a dead unit because they will never know. It will just get sent to the Refurb Company and they will service it and send it back out to someone else.
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#469 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:18 PM

It is a shame that we can not call up the "Task Manager" and see what is actually happening to the receivers.
I know that this laptop I am on uses about 1.4 gig of ram with no programs open and running. When I close everything and it is around 2 gig it is time for a restart.

It sounds like Mike's machine is doing what my laptop does in the memory and when it gets all used up it just stops because it is out of memory then.
In that light I would wonder if clearing the NVRAM once a week would keep it going.

Having said all that, you should not have to put up with doing that all the time.

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#470 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:30 PM

Mike, sign up for the Protection Plan if you don't already have it and you will get a Replacement HR24 for the HR24 that doesn't work.

And I would tell them that it is a dead unit because they will never know. It will just get sent to the Refurb Company and they will service it and send it back out to someone else.


Hey Richierich - What would the protection plan get me over not having it?

Telling them it is dead is likely the only way I guess...

That's the killer is that you know the refurb company is going to give it a clean bill of health and send it back out.... There is really no chance that they test the receivers for 10 or 11 days....

I feel the pain now that the next victim will feel shortly!:lol:

#471 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

It is a shame that we can not call up the "Task Manager" and see what is actually happening to the receivers.
I know that this laptop I am on uses about 1.4 gig of ram with no programs open and running. When I close everything and it is around 2 gig it is time for a restart.

It sounds like Mike's machine is doing what my laptop does in the memory and when it gets all used up it just stops because it is out of memory then.
In that light I would wonder if clearing the NVRAM once a week would keep it going.

Having said all that, you should not have to put up with doing that all the time.


Likely something like that but what I don't understand is why just this particular HR24-500? I have two others - one has had the problem but only twice in the last 4 or 5 months. The other has never stopped responding completely and I don't restart it on a regular basis. You would think a memory leak or other issue like that would show up on all of the HR24-500 running the same firmware. This particular HR24-500 is one of the early ones and the one I got first.... Maybe there is a hardware difference that is the root of the trouble...

I should have mentioned that I did go to channel 1 for a minute or two after it came back to life but then after the remote started flaking out again I went ahead with a RBR.

#472 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

An update on the disconnecting from network and reseting the network settings as discussed below...

Made it 12 days this time... On Christmas eve I picked up the remote hit list and started scrolling down the list. On about the 4th line down it just stopped. The video/audio kept playing in the window but it wouldn't respond to any remote buttons or front panel buttons. The clock stuck at 11:44... I just let it sit and after 5 minutes it came back to life... Clock updated to 11:49 and some of the previous button pushes were executed.

During the 5 minute nap the receiver kept recording without a hitch.

About 20 minutes later the receiver started missing remote commands... I tried to get to 'reset' in the menu but finally just got frustrated and did a red-button-reboot. Hasn't had any trouble since but if I don't restart it I'm sure the same thing will happen January 3rd or so.....

I've moved the future SL recordings over to the other two DVRs - at least the ones I care about - but I still have a bunch of stuff to watch before I attempt to get them to replace it.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I convince a CSR that I need to have the HR24 replaced? Also that it needs to be an HR24 and not anything else? I can give them the 'It just won't power up' story but I'd rather not. I guess either way once they get my flakey HR24 back they'll just turn it on, erase everything - test it for maybe 10 minutes (if that!) and call it good. Box it up and ship it out to some other poor sap that will think life is good for about 10 days or so... I wonder how many people will be tortured with this thing after I send it back?!:nono:


They are supposed to give you a 24 for a 24. If they don't, get on the phone. Tell the truth, the HR doesn't respond to remote commands and the front panel does the same thing. The truth usually wins out. Trick is to get away from those NEW CSRs and get to a department like Retention, where they can do something besides telling you to reboot the thing.

Rich

#473 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

Mike:
It could have a bad memory chip in it or similar item with a problem.

I am not sure the going to channel 1 for 30 seconds actually clears the memory. I have tried this a few times and it appears to me that doing the button press sequence does more good. However, mine don't have problems that cause a lot of problems so it is very difficult for me to say which is better.


I reset this HR23 after the new software was loaded on 12-12 and have not done anything to it since. No resets, clearing memory, etc.

We had a monitor at work years ago that gave a lot of problems and it was intermittent.
The secretary was going to water her flower one day. I set the flower on top of the monitor and she watered it. The flower pot had a hole in the bottom and several drops of water dropped into the monitor. Whoops, had to be replaced.
Don't do that to your receiver. It is dangerous to put water onto electronics for sure.
If somebody from DTV would just come read this thread and had a sense of decency they would send you another HR24.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM, HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#474 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 02:31 PM

Hey Richierich - What would the protection plan get me over not having it?


With the Protection Plan they are obligated to Replace your HR24 with another HR24.

However, I have also heard that HR24s are Always Replaced with another HR24. It could be another Model such as an HR24-500 getting Replaced with an HR24-100 for instance.
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#475 OFFLINE   luckydob

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:51 PM

Uh...sure...Ok.

Since multiple HD DVRs here and HD receivers simply don't have any significant impact or issues as you described for the end user experience in this household...and only a fraction of time is spent "directing" our HDTVs for scheduling and programming guide use...it's unfortunate your older device seem to have a problem.

That's not the case with HR24's or newer, which you referenced as well. As others have repeatedly point out...running jet fuel in an older car doesn't usually make it run faster. The same holds true for firmware.


Then why does Directv insist on putting the jet fuel in the old car? Just asking...




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