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Dish Vs DirecTv


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#101 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 04:40 AM

When I switched from DirecTV to Dish just over a year ago, I did so for a couple of reasons.  First, the HR22-100 I had was an absolute dog of a performer.  20-30 seconds after power up (from standby, not complete off) to be able to start a program or change a channel.  At the time, the HR24 was supposed to be much faster, but DirecTV wouldn't guarantee me an HR24 if I asked for a replacement receiver.  They essentially called all the HR21-24 receivers identical.  I could buy an HR24 from a 3rd party for $200, but that's asking a lot just to be able to pick your model number when you upgrade.

 

Dish offered me a significant savings the first year (over $240) and guaranteed me the receiver of my choice for free.  It's hard to spend $500 just to stick with a provider.

 

In my opinion, the national HD on Dish is a little bit softer.  Still nice, but definitely softer.  The HD LiL is downright horrible, and I consider an OTA adapter and antenna a necessity.  Can't say what DirecTV's HD LiL was like because they didn't offer it in my area when I had it.  Note that I am a picture quality snob and can easily detect differences in picture quality most people would never see.



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#102 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:18 AM

IOW, $5 to $10/month which is pretty much in line with what everyone already knows, and most think about the monthly cost, not the annual.

The "slight" savings note is not true.  The difference in ARPU between DIRECTV and DISH in 1Q2013 was $17.51/month.  That works out to an average savings of $210.12/year with DISH.


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#103 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:48 AM

The "slight" savings note is not true.  The difference in ARPU between DIRECTV and DISH in 1Q2013 was $17.51/month.  That works out to an average savings of $210.12/year with DISH.

 

Which is a bogus comparison imo.  The difference in ARPU comes from differing levels of programming and most especially things like NFLST which Dish doesn't have at all.  In any comparison of packages/pricing, the difference these days is $5-$10/month.  And that's the number that matters.


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#104 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

Which is a bogus comparison imo.  The difference in ARPU comes from differing levels of programming and most especially things like NFLST which Dish doesn't have at all.  In any comparison of packages/pricing, the difference these days is $5-$10/month.  And that's the number that matters.

ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package.  In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.

 

You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).


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#105 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package.  In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.

 

You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).

 

ARPU is a calculated number that includes commercial accounts ... just like the subscriber counts include "commercial equivalent viewing units". The subscriber numbers are adjusted to reflect both residential and commercial subscribers. The ARPU includes both residential and commercial accounts.

 

Differing levels of programming comes from more than just the seasonal NFLST. Based on the ARPU DirecTV does a better job of getting people to pay more per month for their service than DISH. Their ARPU is still less than Premier, let alone adding seasonal sports packages. Comparing similar packages (AT200 vs Choice) is a good way of seeing where DirecTV is getting their extra ARPU dollars. Is it by charging more for the same content or by getting their customers to pay for more content?

 

The new customer NFLST deals play into that ... "free NFLST when you subscribe to Premier" raises the subscription level to Premier year round. Perhaps in the second or third year the customer will fall back to a lower package ... or if they don't want NFLST they would select Choice or Entertainment on day one ... but having that package affects DirecTV's sales and ARPU.


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#106 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package.  In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.

 

You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).

 

Nothing 'ideal' is picked by me, just a bogus reply to change the outcome.

 

Comparisons of nearly like to like are the only thing that matters as most switchers and lookers will do that to determine which is a better deal.

 

ARPU is about how much the average person is paying on each service, which is more an indication of how well the provider is able to market their packages and get subscribers to pay more.


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#107 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:57 PM

ARPU is a calculated number that includes commercial accounts ... just like the subscriber counts include "commercial equivalent viewing units". The subscriber numbers are adjusted to reflect both residential and commercial subscribers. The ARPU includes both residential and commercial accounts.

 

Differing levels of programming comes from more than just the seasonal NFLST. Based on the ARPU DirecTV does a better job of getting people to pay more per month for their service than DISH. Their ARPU is still less than Premier, let alone adding seasonal sports packages. Comparing similar packages (AT200 vs Choice) is a good way of seeing where DirecTV is getting their extra ARPU dollars. Is it by charging more for the same content or by getting their customers to pay for more content?

 

The new customer NFLST deals play into that ... "free NFLST when you subscribe to Premier" raises the subscription level to Premier year round. Perhaps in the second or third year the customer will fall back to a lower package ... or if they don't want NFLST they would select Choice or Entertainment on day one ... but having that package affects DirecTV's sales and ARPU.

I'm not sure how to break up quotes with the new forum software.

 

Commercial accounts probably aren't increasing much.  If anything, with the exclusives that other providers have, some accounts have had to subtract receivers from DIRECTV and add boxes to their local cable operator (or DISH).  Comcast has made major inroads in my area due to the absence of PAC12 and Trailblazers coverage on DIRECTV.  Nonetheless, the commercial rates are relatively static (and free of many fees and upgrade options that residential customers have).

 

The point is that the ARPU difference between DIRECTV and DISH has been increasing pretty radically in recent history and I have to think that it has mostly to do with those who are getting into advanced technology on the DIRECTV side (although DIRECTV claims that PPV is catching fire).

 

The Premier subscriptions that come along with NFLST come with major discounts so that's probably not really a valid argument.


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#108 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:45 PM

The point is that the ARPU difference between DIRECTV and DISH has been increasing pretty radically in recent history and I have to think that it has mostly to do with those who are getting into advanced technology on the DIRECTV side (although DIRECTV claims that PPV is catching fire).


"Increasing pretty radically" is not an accurate portrayal.

The Premier subscriptions that come along with NFLST come with major discounts so that's probably not really a valid argument.


Yes, it is. Your claim that NFLST does not affect 1Q ARPU fails when subscribers take a year round higher priced package to get the NFLST discounts.
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#109 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

Let's look at the last few years of 1Q ARPU numbers.
 
 
       DTV  DISH  diff percent
2008 79.70 67.93 11.77 14.77%
2009 80.35 70.03 10.32 12.84%
2010 85.47 71.18 14.29 16.72%
2011 88.79 75.39 13.40 15.09%
2012 91.99 76.71 15.28 16.61%
2013 96.05 78.54 17.51 18.23%
 
So for the last two years, DIRECTV ARPU has been increasing at a much higher rate against the DISH ARPU than several years ago.  Comparing DIRECTV 2008 to DIRECTV 2013, the ARPU went up 20.5% versus DISH's 15.6%
 
I'm not convinced (and I suspect that the savvy DIRECTV NFLST subscriber isn't either) that subscribing to a higher dollar package insures that one is more likely to get discounts on NFLST; especially given DIRECTV's proclaimed success in cutting down on existing customer freebies.

Edited by harsh, 19 May 2013 - 11:22 AM.

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#110 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package.  In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.

 

You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).

And you are ignoring the channels that Directv has that Dish doesn't. For example, Directv has YES, Dish doesn't. For me that's a must have channel. Up to a point, the monthly difference between the two doesn't matter. BTW, this argument works both ways.



#111 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:55 AM

For example, Directv has YES, Dish doesn't. For me that's a must have channel. Up to a point, the monthly difference between the two doesn't matter. BTW, this argument works both ways.

This is back to the personal preferences argument. The point is that some are served what they want from one provider while others are denied what they want. The YES/MSG argument seems to be DIRECTV's big play (and the DIRECTV fanboy's go-to argument) but it is also one of the main drivers behind everyone in the market having to pay a Regional Sports Fee whether they are interested in the channels or not.

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#112 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:39 PM

So when you make the argument it's okay, but when I do it I'm a fanboy? I've often said YES is the one channel that keeps me a Directv sub. If you think that makes me a fanboy you are sadly mistaken.



#113 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:09 PM

So when you make the argument it's okay, but when I do it I'm a fanboy? I've often said YES is the one channel that keeps me a Directv sub. If you think that makes me a fanboy you are sadly mistaken.

Same here, by no means am I a Directv fanboy.  But Dish is entirely not an option for me without them having YES or SNY in the lineup. I can live without the MSGs.


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#114 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:04 AM

So when you make the argument it's okay, but when I do it I'm a fanboy? I've often said YES is the one channel that keeps me a Directv sub. If you think that makes me a fanboy you are sadly mistaken.

I said it was the fanboy's go-to argument. If it hit too close to home, there's your sign.

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#115 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:43 AM

I said it was the fanboy's go-to argument. If it hit too close to home, there's your sign.

Since I was the one using the YES argument, it's pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then who were you referring to?



#116 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:07 AM

Since I was the one using the YES argument, it's pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then who were you referring to?

DIRECTV fanboys. Basic sentence structure.

YES has long been a knee-jerk retort to perceived attacks on DIRECTV as if it were an obvious must-have component in every subscription television viewer's programming lineup.

HERETIC: DIRECTV doesn't have _____ channel
FANBOY: Brand X doesn't have YES

INFIDEL: DIRECTV DVRs are slow
FANBOY: Brand Y doesn't have YES

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#117 OFFLINE   RichP74

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:15 PM

For me, it came down to the Hopper/Sling combo. I played with a Genie, and it... needs work. I don't have the patience for it, it reminded me of a gen 1 TiVo or something. I'm sure that, like Dish, they will substantially beef up version 2.0 of that box.

Still, I don't blame anyone for using YES as an excuse. Bandwagoners love both Yankees baseball and DirecTV! ;)

#118 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:42 AM

DIRECTV fanboys. Basic sentence structure.

YES has long been a knee-jerk retort to perceived attacks on DIRECTV as if it were an obvious must-have component in every subscription television viewer's programming lineup.

HERETIC: DIRECTV doesn't have _____ channel
FANBOY: Brand X doesn't have YES

INFIDEL: DIRECTV DVRs are slow
FANBOY: Brand Y doesn't have YES

Since I am the one in this thread making that argument, you are referring to me. Like I said, I'm no big Directv supporter. The opposite of your argument is what keeps me with them. It's a must have for me, that doesn't mean in any way that anyone else should agree with me.



#119 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:54 AM

If I were in your market and a sports fan, I wouldn't want Dish either and it is a very valid reason.

 

Since I'm not either of those things, I can and do switch between services when it is in my best interest.  That is the sole reason for doing so.


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#120 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

DIRECTV fanboys. Basic sentence structure.

YES has long been a knee-jerk retort to perceived attacks on DIRECTV as if it were an obvious must-have component in every subscription television viewer's programming lineup.

HERETIC: DIRECTV doesn't have _____ channel
FANBOY: Brand X doesn't have YES

INFIDEL: DIRECTV DVRs are slow
FANBOY: Brand Y doesn't have YES

 

You know very well there are a lot of reasons people choose DirecTV over Dish.  Its not always sports although sports is a big one.  For me personally I would not want the Hopper.  I prefer the Genie so I can control what's recorded and not be reduced to them recording all of primetime for me.  I dont need the box to record crap I dont want it to.  Just need it to do what I want it to do.  There is an issue with switching, I have a huge setup (15 tuners) that would cost me a fortune at Dish to set and has only cost me a little over $400 with DirecTV, I hear a lot more about owned equipment with DirecTV, I own most of my equipment (4 of 6 DVR's). Contract disputes, Dish's lack of ability to keep their website update (they still show that WB and UPN stations are available), CSR lack of knowledge every time I ever call and ask questions, dual DVR's that only display SD on the 2nd TV, etc.  I just do NOT want to deal with all the headaches.  Not to mention I recall an article that Clark Howard cancelled service with them due to the fact that he didnt keep a phone cord pulled into his equipment and they kept shutting off receivers as well as accusing him of being dishonest.  I just chose not to do business with a company like that.  That is a lot and does not even cover Dish's lack of Sports which is MAJOR with me.


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#121 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

You know very well there are a lot of reasons people choose DirecTV over Dish.  Its not always sports although sports is a big one.  For me personally I would not want the Hopper.  I prefer the Genie so I can control what's recorded and not be reduced to them recording all of primetime for me.  I dont need the box to record crap I dont want it to.  Just need it to do what I want it to do.  There is an issue with switching, I have a huge setup (15 tuners) that would cost me a fortune at Dish to set and has only cost me a little over $400 with DirecTV, I hear a lot more about owned equipment with DirecTV, I own most of my equipment (4 of 6 DVR's). Contract disputes, Dish's lack of ability to keep their website update (they still show that WB and UPN stations are available), CSR lack of knowledge every time I ever call and ask questions, dual DVR's that only display SD on the 2nd TV, etc.  I just do NOT want to deal with all the headaches.  Not to mention I recall an article that Clark Howard cancelled service with them due to the fact that he didnt keep a phone cord pulled into his equipment and they kept shutting off receivers as well as accusing him of being dishonest.  I just chose not to do business with a company like that.  That is a lot and does not even cover Dish's lack of Sports which is MAJOR with me.

 

Further more Harsh, here is a list of things I wrote for each provider when someone was deciding on who to go with or better yet who not to go with.  I tried to post what I knew and or heard were problems for both.  While I carry DirecTV, I do not claim they are perfect either.  See below.  I am sure there are things on both sides I missed.

 

If you want to lose channels for periods of time due to contract disputes, not have Sunday Ticket, not have MLB Xtra Innings, not have Mega March Madness, not have other missing HD sports channels, have receivers shut off if you dont keep a phone plugged into them, dont mind the website having information outdated by 5+ years, don't mind the CSR's not being able to answer questions until you have active service with Dish, then DISH is the provider for you.  You should sign up today.

If you want to have slower equipment, no sling box, less storage space on the top HD DVR, not have your commercials removed from prime time recordins automatically, not be able to have one receiver control 2 TV's, be restricted to one top level HD DVR on the account, pay and HD fee for life, get incorrectly billed with a hassle getting it removed, lack of premium movie channals available then DirecTV is the provider for you.  You should sign up with them today.


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#122 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

You've given good reasons for you not to consider a switch.

 

But since you DID mention it, you must have looked at a very old thread to find one about phone line connection with Dish as that hasn't been a requirement for a very long time.

 

In your installation switching anywhere would result in a big upfront cost and wouldn't make sense imo.  I wouldn't consider changing in that circumstance myself and I'm a big fan of switching!  But I have to wonder what the heck you do with 15 tuners?  I can't think of a single hour of any day/night that there are even half that many channels worth watching at the same time.  But that's just me!  :)

 

I have a 2 Hopper installation and haven't had a single issue of missing a show yet and all my shows are on just one of the Hoppers.  My son uses his even less than I do, though he does use PIP with some sports.  And even though some of those sports are in SD, they are very watcheable with Dish, which certainly is not true of SD with Direct.

 

I suspect that I'll be making a switch in about 12-15 months though to take advantage of some cost savings, and hopefully by then D* will allow for 2 HR44s.


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#123 OFFLINE   RichP74

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

Further more Harsh, here is a list of things I wrote for each provider when someone was deciding on who to go with or better yet who not to go with.  I tried to post what I knew and or heard were problems for both.  While I carry DirecTV, I do not claim they are perfect either.  See below.  I am sure there are things on both sides I missed.

 

If you want to lose channels for periods of time due to contract disputes, not have Sunday Ticket, not have MLB Xtra Innings, not have Mega March Madness, not have other missing HD sports channels, have receivers shut off if you dont keep a phone plugged into them, dont mind the website having information outdated by 5+ years, don't mind the CSR's not being able to answer questions until you have active service with Dish, then DISH is the provider for you.  You should sign up today.

If you want to have slower equipment, no sling box, less storage space on the top HD DVR, not have your commercials removed from prime time recordins automatically, not be able to have one receiver control 2 TV's, be restricted to one top level HD DVR on the account, pay and HD fee for life, get incorrectly billed with a hassle getting it removed, lack of premium movie channals available then DirecTV is the provider for you.  You should sign up with them today.

 

I had a good laugh, but most of this is pure exaggeration.  I did tons and tons of research last week when deciding whether to go with Dish or Direct, and very few of these things you list are huge deals.  Some of these no longer apply, like the dish receiver phone line thing.  They didn't even do that when I last had Dish years ago.  

 

The reality is that both Dish and Direct are very, very good services in their present state.  It was a much easier choice years ago because the differences were more stark.  

 

For me, it came down to the Hopper/Joey setup being a bit more mature and snappier than the Genie.  Also, I liked Dish's iPad 2 offer over the free season of NFL Sunday Ticket (THAT was a really, really tough call as well!).  The fact is, I saw everything else being largely equivalent.   It is a far different story than it was years ago, when DirecTV's HD picture quality was embarrassingly bad.  They certainly turned that around, though.  Honestly, at the end of the day I would have been delighted with either service compared to the Charter TV I had been paying for for the last 4-5 years.  

 

The fanboyism and trolling is honestly ridiculous.  As somebody who had to deal with both the Dish 7100 (or whatever their first god awful DVR was), and DirecTV's flaky as hell first gen HD boxes (yes, I was a customer of theirs back then as well!), it's almost like everyone has forgotten how far both services have come.  

 

Anyway, rant over.  Enjoy your TV this weekend, gentlemen, especially if you're supposed to get rain all weekend like I am!



#124 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:55 AM

You've given good reasons for you not to consider a switch.

 

But since you DID mention it, you must have looked at a very old thread to find one about phone line connection with Dish as that hasn't been a requirement for a very long time.

 

In your installation switching anywhere would result in a big upfront cost and wouldn't make sense imo.  I wouldn't consider changing in that circumstance myself and I'm a big fan of switching!  But I have to wonder what the heck you do with 15 tuners?  I can't think of a single hour of any day/night that there are even half that many channels worth watching at the same time.  But that's just me!   :)

 

I have a 2 Hopper installation and haven't had a single issue of missing a show yet and all my shows are on just one of the Hoppers.  My son uses his even less than I do, though he does use PIP with some sports.  And even though some of those sports are in SD, they are very watcheable with Dish, which certainly is not true of SD with Direct.

 

I suspect that I'll be making a switch in about 12-15 months though to take advantage of some cost savings, and hopefully by then D* will allow for 2 HR44s.

 

The sports issues alone are a show stopper for me.  I want Sunday Ticket and am finding I love MLB Xtra Innings this year as well.  I would really have to think about if I wanted to put up with all the other headaches that come with Dish even if the sports problem went away.  As for my tuner needs, its more along the lines of having TV available in multiple locations and they might as well be HD DVR's then it is me needing that many tuners.  I own 4 of the 6 boxes.  The Genie controls my TV only.  I need 5 tuners for me and the rest of among the family in the rest of the house.


Directv & Sunday Ticket Sub Since 8/19/2008
HR24-200 Leased, HR24-100 Owned, R22-200 Owned, HR22-100 Owned, HR22-100 Owned, HR44-500 Owned. 5 LNB Setup W/SWM 16 Switch
Sony KDL-46HX800


#125 OFFLINE   joshjr

joshjr

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

I had a good laugh, but most of this is pure exaggeration.  I did tons and tons of research last week when deciding whether to go with Dish or Direct, and very few of these things you list are huge deals.  Some of these no longer apply, like the dish receiver phone line thing.  They didn't even do that when I last had Dish years ago.  

 

The reality is that both Dish and Direct are very, very good services in their present state.  It was a much easier choice years ago because the differences were more stark.  

 

For me, it came down to the Hopper/Joey setup being a bit more mature and snappier than the Genie.  Also, I liked Dish's iPad 2 offer over the free season of NFL Sunday Ticket (THAT was a really, really tough call as well!).  The fact is, I saw everything else being largely equivalent.   It is a far different story than it was years ago, when DirecTV's HD picture quality was embarrassingly bad.  They certainly turned that around, though.  Honestly, at the end of the day I would have been delighted with either service compared to the Charter TV I had been paying for for the last 4-5 years.  

 

The fanboyism and trolling is honestly ridiculous.  As somebody who had to deal with both the Dish 7100 (or whatever their first god awful DVR was), and DirecTV's flaky as hell first gen HD boxes (yes, I was a customer of theirs back then as well!), it's almost like everyone has forgotten how far both services have come.  

 

Anyway, rant over.  Enjoy your TV this weekend, gentlemen, especially if you're supposed to get rain all weekend like I am!

 

Being an exaggeration vs a big deal are different things.  The only thing I see posted that I guess changes was the phone cord to the Dish DVR's.  The rest of what I posted is very true.  Might not be a big deal but it is true.


Directv & Sunday Ticket Sub Since 8/19/2008
HR24-200 Leased, HR24-100 Owned, R22-200 Owned, HR22-100 Owned, HR22-100 Owned, HR44-500 Owned. 5 LNB Setup W/SWM 16 Switch
Sony KDL-46HX800





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