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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Pink Screen-No Audio HR23-700 split to 2 TV's


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#1 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:28 PM

I have a cheap, powered HDMI splitter on my HR23-700. It is feeding a 35' and a 45' 20 gage HDMI cables to the living room and the kitchen. It has worked fine for several years.
Recently, DirecTV enabled the HDCP 'security' deal with HBO. I got the message on the screen to switch to component. Annoying but it is OK in that I also have component run to the living room. Thing is, I have to unplug the HDMI cable at the HR-23 or no signal is transmitted over anything. Now it is a royal pain.
So... I figured my cheapo splitter was not sending the /responding to the HDCP handshake, and I bought a Monoprice 8154 powered splitter that several others swore worked. All I got with it was the dreaded pink screen. Both TV's are the same. I tried a different feed cable from the HR-23 to the splitter, no change. I put my cheapo splitter back in line and the picture/audio returns. I will have to wait until 'Boardwalk Empire' is next recorded to confirm my 'el cheapo' does not communicate.
I have read and tested the 'solutions' as found on the interweb, having spent over ten hours trying this and that, short of skulls filled with potions and grinding chicken bones.
So for the short term, 99% of my issue is not a problem but... I know as HDCP is further rolled out, it is going to be more and more of a headache.
Does anyone know of a real solution? I am pretty convinced it is a DirecTV STB issue.
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#2 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

HDCP security won't allow you to watch a show over HDMI if you also have component cables plugged in. The thought is if the show is played at full HD, you might be using the component side to record the show. If you remove the HDMI cable on a HDCP protected show, the DVR will allow you to watch it on the component cables but will not let it play in full HD.

Try removing the component cables from the DVR and see if your old splitter will work. It sounds like the new one is defective and should be returned to Monoprice.

I ran a Monoprice splitter to 3 TVs with no problems for years. I now have a Monoprice switch connecting 3 DVRs to 4 HDTVs. I had to remove component cables to get around the problem you are having.

Edited by bpratt, 02 December 2012 - 03:07 PM.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD x087f AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD x087f AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD x0870
DirecTV since 1997


#3 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

Ok, that is one thing I have not yet tried. Next time I try to watch, I'll disconnect the component cables from the HR23. However, it does not make a whole lot of sense as there is no way for the HR23 to 'know' it has a component connection being made as there is no communication 'back' to the STB.

I think your idea of the cables (component) being used to record a show while being watched onver HDMI is flawed. The show was already recorded on the DVR. What would stop me from watching it once over HDMI and then recording it later on another device over component? Comes out to the 'same difference'. I have heard eventually, they will supply only a 480 signal on HDCP protected media over component at some time.

I already had Monoprice replace the first 8154, in the assumption it was defective. I doubt I would get two with the same problem, especially because the fist came via Amazon, the second, replacement directly from Monoprice.
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#4 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

The pink screen and no audio can be caused by the plug and socket connection of the HDMI cables . You might unplug and replug each of the connections one at a time and see if one of them is the problem.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#5 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:51 PM

If you have an HDMI cable and Component cables ran to the same TV from the same receiver, and you try to play the HDCP content using the Component connection, the HDMI is also sending a signal and not getting an answer from the TV that it is HDCP compatible and the movie will not play.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#6 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

HDCP was created to stop people from recording protected shows in full HD. On an HDMI connection HDCP is used to communicate between the DVR and the connected device to ensure what is about to play cannot be recorded. If the connection is to an HDMI complient HDTV, then the video will be played. If the connection is to a blu-ray recorder or a non HDCP complient device, the video will not play. Since there is no HDCP on the component connection, the DVR will not allow full HD to be played for a HDCP protected show if there is a component cable connected (I don't know how the DVR knows there is a component cable connected, but it does) If you remove the HDMI cable and watch a show using component, the quality of the show is reduced by the DVR. I don't know exactly what it is reduced to, but somewhere in these forums it was once reported that it was ruduced to 480p.

I watch Boardwalk Enterprise every week on an HDMI connected HDTV and never have a problem. I know from experience that if I plug in a component cable to my DVR, I will get the same message you are getting. One of my HDTVs is an older TV and it does not have an HDMI connection. Before HDCP was implemented, I ran component cables to that TV and HDMI to another. When DirecTV started implementing HDCP, I had to disconnect the component cables in order to watch some shows over HDMI.

Are you sure you HDMI cables are 20 gauge wire. My longest HDMI cable is now 60 feet and I use 22 gauge cable. I originally tried to run a 30 foot HDMI cable that was 28 gauge wire and could not get any video or audio. I don't remember if I got a pink screen or not, just that it required larger gauge wire to work at those lengths.

Edited by bpratt, 02 December 2012 - 04:12 PM.

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD x087f AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD x087f AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD x0870
DirecTV since 1997


#7 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

The pink screen and no audio can be caused by the plug and socket connection of the HDMI cables . You might unplug and replug each of the connections one at a time and see if one of them is the problem.

Done that. See first post.

If you have an HDMI cable and Component cables ran to the same TV from the same receiver, and you try to play the HDCP content using the Component connection, the HDMI is also sending a signal and not getting an answer from the TV that it is HDCP compatible and the movie will not play.

Done this, see first post.
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#8 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

Have you tried eliminating the HDMI splitter and use each of the HDMI cables plugged directly to the HR23 and see if the problem is still there ? This would eliminate some of the possibilities by just using one cable at a time.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#9 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

HDCP was created to stop people from recording protected shows in full HD. On an HDMI connection HDCP is used to communicate between the DVR and the connected device to ensure what is about to play cannot be recorded. If the connection is to an HDMI complient HDTV, then the video will be played. If the connection is to a blu-ray recorder or a non HDCP complient device, the video will not play. Since there is no HDCP on the component connection, the DVR will not allow full HD to be played for a HDCP protected show if there is a component cable connected (I don't know how the DVR knows there is a component cable connected, but it does) If you remove the HDMI cable and watch a show using component, the quality of the show is reduced by the DVR. I don't know exactly what it is reduced to, but somewhere in these forums it was once reported that it was ruduced to 480p.

I watch Boardwalk Enterprise every week on an HDMI connected HDTV and never have a problem. I know from experience that if I plug in a component cable to my DVR, I will get the same message you are getting. One of my HDTVs is an older TV and it does not have an HDMI connection. Before HDCP was implemented, I ran component cables to that TV and HDMI to another. When DirecTV started implementing HDCP, I had to disconnect the component cables in order to watch some shows over HDMI.


When I watch Boardwalk Empire over component (or any show) I do not see any difference in image. I also have checked and am always getting a 1080i (sometimes a p) quality, depending on source when using component, assuming of course the show is being transmitted on a hi def signal.

I too, heard that eventually (like maybe spring of 2013) that component output will only be 480i. I at first was fired up about HDMI until I had to deal with cable issues. Kind of lame, Hollywood has us by the short hairs, it seems. HDCP and this reduction in component quality. :mad:

I will give it (disconnection of component cables) a test the next time (This Monday, I believe) when my DVR records it.
I suppose it is possible the DVR 'see's' the signal load (or capacitance) of the component cable.

I really only 'have to have' the component connection for setup of my Rotel audio processor. I have little need to send the signal from the DVR. It is more of a convenience to have the component 'on' all the time and not have to switch input on the TV.
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#10 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Have you tried eliminating the HDMI splitter and use each of the HDMI cables plugged directly to the HR23 and see if the problem is still there ? This would eliminate some of the possibilities by just using one cable at a time.


LOL, see my first post. I get a HDMI signal with my old splitter. I get the DTV 'You must use component cables...blahblahblah...' message on certain HBO (for now shows). The issue is my old splitter does not 'pass through' the HDCP 'handshake' at all. The new splitter seems to work but there is a communication issue and the 'handshake' fails. As I understand it, the STB sends out a HDCP confirmation request, to confirm the end device is a video screen. The switch (because it has multiple outputs) is supposed to send out a request to the video playback device. That device says "Yes, I am a TV." That tells the switch to transmit, and it also sends a signal back to the STB to also transmit. When the 'handshake' from the STB to the switch works, the STB transmits and there is no message on the screen. The switch to the TV has no messaging capability only is able to transmit a bad image (the pink screen).
The end goal being having the STB sending the same signal to the living room and the kitchen at the same time.

I am not too happy about having to upgrade to a HR34 and a couple of Genies, not for a while at least. So that is not a solution at this time.
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

#11 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

OK,
my last post was not clear and should have mentioned the pink screen and lack of audio.
It was not for the HDCP issue.

Sorry I could not help you. Good luck with it.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#12 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

OK,
my last post was not clear and should have mentioned the pink screen and lack of audio.
It was not for the HDCP issue.

Sorry I could not help you. Good luck with it.


Thanks for your efforts. I am open to further suggestions, even if only as a brain picking exercise. So far, the only thing I have not tried is the disconnection of the component cables at the STB.

If they really loved us, all connections would be via Cat5/6 or wireless WiFi.
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

#13 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

Thanks for your efforts. I am open to further suggestions, even if only as a brain picking exercise. So far, the only thing I have not tried is the disconnection of the component cables at the STB.

If they really loved us, all connections would be via Cat5/6 or wireless WiFi.


I have had my TV hooked up with HDMI and Component at the same time.
It would not play the HDCP movies with either connection.
I removed the HDMI and it played.
I plugged the HDMI back into the DVR and removed the Component cables and it played on the HDMI.

I had mine set up that way so I could use the TV speakers when my son is asleep and the Surround Sound when he was awake.
I now run the Component cables to the TV and an Optical cable out to the Yamaha for the digital 5.1 sounds.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#14 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

So far... as far as I kow... the only show I have watched were HDCP comes into play is 'BE' (Boardwalk Empire) - (I let my wife choose all the shows all year except when it comes to Endurance racing and F1).
With the HDMI unplugged from the STB, it will let me watch a recording of BW over component. With both connected (HDMI and Component) I get the DirecTV nag message. I have not... yet... tried to watch over HDMI with component disconnected at the STB.
I do know, with the Monoprice #8154 switch, I get the 'pink screen' all the time. I do know, with my 'el cheapo' switch I get a good HDMI signal at both TVs (though I have to do the other test to see if my problem is the dual connection to the STB). I gues Tuesday will be 'testing day'.
In the living room, I have an optical connection for the audio to the Rotel, in the kitchen, there is only the HDMI (two, one is for a PC), a couple of Cat6 network ports and a single RG6. So for the kitchen, HDMI is the only audio.
My DTV is a SWM 8 inside the attic, three of the eight ports used. OTA is a complete seperate feed.
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

#15 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

The problem is most likely the fact that one of your TVs is turned off, or with your splitter. Completely forget about the component connection because it is not what is causing this issue, component does not support HDCP at all. The issue is the HDMI and HDCP connections.

The movie channels like HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc. have started forcing the service providers to use HDPC protection on their channels. When you tune into an HDCP protected channel/show the DirecTV receiver looks at what is hooked up to the HDMI port and double checks that the devices hooked up to it are HDCP compliant. If it senses that something hooked up to the HDMI input is not HDCP compliant then it puts up the nag screen about switching to component.

My guess is either that your HDMI splitter is showing up transparent to the DirecTV receiver, so your DirecTV receiver sees that two items are hooked up over HDMI and tries to check for HDCP on both of them and if one or both fails it shuts down the HDMI output. Having one TV turned off could be the issue. Try having both turned on at the same time and see if that takes care of the issue. Of course it also could be the issue that the DirecTV receiver refuses to output to two displays at one, I'm not 100% sure.

The other possibility is that your switch is not transparent to the DirecTV reciever, and the switch itself is not HDCP compliant, so the DirecTV receiver shuts down the HDMI output.

This is exactly the same reason people have this issue when using component and HDMI at the same time. If they are watching on the TV using the component inputs, and have the TV hooked up over HDMI turned off, when they switch to a program enforcing HDCP the receiver sees that there is something hooked up to the HDMI port, but it isn't passing the HDCP test so it shuts down all outputs and puts up the nag message. Unhooking the TV hooked up to the HDMI cable, or just turning that TV on will complete the HDCP test and then the component outputs will turn back on.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
-by Jack Handy

#16 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

HDCP security won't allow you to watch a show over HDMI if you also have component cables plugged in. The thought is if the show is played at full HD, you might be using the component side to record the show. If you remove the HDMI cable on a HDCP protected show, the DVR will allow you to watch it on the component cables but will not let it play in full HD...


If by "full HD" you mean 1080p, component never outputs 1080p, only HDMI supports that resolution. However, the component outputs will deliver 1080i whether or not the HDMI port is also in use. IOW, with a HDCP TV attached to the HDMI port, you COULD record 1080i from the component ports if you wanted to. Of course, component signals are analog, so you are experiencing a digital to analog conversion, and presumably an analog to digital conversion again when you record it, with recompression of the data.

Beerstalker has it right...the problem is in the HDMI side.

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#17 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

If by "full HD" you mean 1080p, component never outputs 1080p, only HDMI supports that resolution.


It's a little off topic, but this actually isn't true. Component connections can handle 1080p just fine. It's just that the vast majority of video equipment in the US has artificially limited it to 1080i. I believe the Xbox 360 and PS3 can both do 1080p over component. But DVD players, and Blu-Ray players have to limit the resolution over component outputs in order to get certified. So DVD players can only do a max of 480p over component, and Blu-ray players can only go up to 1080i over component (and that may be coming to an end soon). Since so few devices are allowed to ouput 1080p over component, many display manufacturers don't bother supporting it on their inputs. And I'm guessing since few display manufacturers support it, DirecTV sees no advantage in supporting it on their equipment either (or maybe the movie studios have limited them just like DVD/Blu-Ray players).

As far as I know if you watch a 1080p PPV movie on DirecTV the HDMI output will send it out as 1080p (assuming a 1080p TV is hooked up and turned on), and if you have a TV hooked up to the component outputs at the same time it will get 1080i, since the DirecTV equipment does not support 1080p over component.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
-by Jack Handy

#18 OFFLINE   bpratt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:50 PM

If by "full HD" you mean 1080p, component never outputs 1080p, only HDMI supports that resolution. However, the component outputs will deliver 1080i whether or not the HDMI port is also in use. IOW, with a HDCP TV attached to the HDMI port, you COULD record 1080i from the component ports if you wanted to. Of course, component signals are analog, so you are experiencing a digital to analog conversion, and presumably an analog to digital conversion again when you record it, with recompression of the data.

Beerstalker has it right...the problem is in the HDMI side.


By full HD I mean 1080p, 1080i or 720p. Read this article. The broadcast industry wants to restrict HDCP protected content to 540p on component. If DirecTV still allows HDCP protected shows to be viewed on component at 1080i or 720p, you can bet they won't allow it for much longer.

http://arstechnica.c...r-to-watch-hbo/

Also, here is an article that talks about HDMI verses component:

http://www.ecoustics...omponent-video/

HR10-250   550G WD  6.4a
HR21-700   750G WD x087f AM21
HR21-700 2000G WD x087f AM21
HR44-500 2000G WD x0870
DirecTV since 1997


#19 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

By full HD I mean 1080p, 1080i or 720p. Read this article. The broadcast industry wants to restrict HDCP protected content to 540p on component. If DirecTV still allows HDCP protected shows to be viewed on component at 1080i or 720p, you can bet they won't allow it for much longer.


Neither of the articles you posted talk about that at all. And I haven't seen any article that says that broadcasters are talking about starting to use the ICT flag (which is the flag that limits the resolution output over component video). If you could show me one I would be suprised.

HDCP and ICT are two completely different things.

HDCP is the copy protection in the HDMI signal. It keeps devices from being able to make a perfect digital copy from the HDMI stream. It has recently been turned on by the providers on the movie channels, by those channels request.

ICT is the image constraint token. It is a seperate flag that can be set in the show/movie/on the Blu ray disc etc. It tells the device playing the content to limit the component video outputs to a certain resolution (most likely 480p in the US).

The Blu-Ray alliance has stated that they will start using ICT soon, but I still haven't heard of anyone that has really started using it. They are trying to wean everyone off component slowly first. They had manufacturers drop component ouputs from new players, and now they are warning people they will start using ICT. The only disc I have heard of that had the ICT flag turned on was one of the Resident Evil movies in Europe back when Blu-Ray was first gaining popularity, and the studio said it was by mistake. I believe they even recalled the disks and replaced them for people that got them and had equipment that it caused problems with.

Like I said before though, I haven't heard of any channel/service provider even talking about using ICT yet.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
-by Jack Handy

#20 OFFLINE   William1

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

The problem is most likely the fact that one of your TVs is turned off, or with your splitter. Completely forget about the component connection because it is not what is causing this issue, component does not support HDCP at all. The issue is the HDMI and HDCP connections.

The movie channels like HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc. have started forcing the service providers to use HDPC protection on their channels. When you tune into an HDCP protected channel/show the DirecTV receiver looks at what is hooked up to the HDMI port and double checks that the devices hooked up to it are HDCP compliant. If it senses that something hooked up to the HDMI input is not HDCP compliant then it puts up the nag screen about switching to component.

My guess is either that your HDMI splitter is showing up transparent to the DirecTV receiver, so your DirecTV receiver sees that two items are hooked up over HDMI and tries to check for HDCP on both of them and if one or both fails it shuts down the HDMI output. Having one TV turned off could be the issue. Try having both turned on at the same time and see if that takes care of the issue. Of course it also could be the issue that the DirecTV receiver refuses to output to two displays at one, I'm not 100% sure.

The other possibility is that your switch is not transparent to the DirecTV reciever, and the switch itself is not HDCP compliant, so the DirecTV receiver shuts down the HDMI output.

This is exactly the same reason people have this issue when using component and HDMI at the same time. If they are watching on the TV using the component inputs, and have the TV hooked up over HDMI turned off, when they switch to a program enforcing HDCP the receiver sees that there is something hooked up to the HDMI port, but it isn't passing the HDCP test so it shuts down all outputs and puts up the nag message. Unhooking the TV hooked up to the HDMI cable, or just turning that TV on will complete the HDCP test and then the component outputs will turn back on.


Yup, this^^^ is how I understood it.:hi:

I have tried to connect both TV's (LED Late model Samsungs) via splitter that is reputed to work (the Monoprice 8154) and I got the 'pinks' on all channels. I went back to my el cheapo splitter and images returned.

I recorded Boardwalk Empire on Monday. I tested it and it seems to work now.:grin: I do not know if the HDCP switch was turned off at DirecTV due to complaints or if my repeated plugging and unplugging connections 'cleaned a contact' and now my el cheapo works???:icon_stup

I'd hate to have to have a manual switch for the HDMI connection that I'd have to switch off and then use component. I suspect even if the splitter 'works', that having two HDCP display devices also causes handshake issues.

It does seem to be a issue for some of us. I'd like yo hear from people who have split the output of the STB over HDMI to two TV's successully. Or does a HR34 and a couple of Genies loom in my future?:shrug:
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."




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