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95 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

simple visual math

1. WD73642 - 65.2" x 43.6" x 17.9
2. M650VSE - 60.35"W x 36.46"H x 2.58

By the simple reason the depth of the two devices are about 15 inches in difference you gain an additional 15 inches of viewing distance. The is a current run DLP comparision, you go to some of the older units that where the depth of the device was almost double the viewing distance is increased even more. Simple, logical thought processes :heybaby:


Why do you want to gain viewing distance? Most people already sit too far from their displays. The objective should be to reduce viewing distance.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

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#52 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

Why do you want to gain viewing distance? Most people already sit too far from their displays. The objective should be to reduce viewing distance.


Depends on the size of the display. It also possible to be too close.
DTV = Digital Television

#53 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

Sure, it's possible, but I've never seen that scenario in any living room I've visited or photo I've seen.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#54 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Sure, it's possible, but I've never seen that scenario in any living room I've visited or photo I've seen.


Regardless, there are better ways to adjust your seating distance from the display. Wall mounting also allows for better positioning of a center channel.
DTV = Digital Television

#55 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:46 PM

Wall mounting also allows for better positioning of a center channel.


Only if you sacrifice viewing angle. I'd much rather have the display at the proper height and the center channel above and angled toward the listener - you'd swear it's coming right from the display when done properly.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#56 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

Only if you sacrifice viewing angle. I'd much rather have the display at the proper height and the center channel above and angled toward the listener - you'd swear it's coming right from the display when done properly.


Not when you can have the best of both worlds. A wall mounted display with the center of the image at eye level with the center channel in its optimal position for proper calibration, just below the screen. (Actually, optimal would be behind an acoustically transparent projector screen.)
DTV = Digital Television

#57 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

Not when you can have the best of both worlds. A wall mounted display with the center of the image at eye level with the center channel in its optimal position for proper calibration, just below the screen. (Actually, optimal would be behind an acoustically transparent projector screen.)


No, optimal is to have the image at eye level and the center channel at ear level (psst. that's the same thing). So, to have the center channel ideally placed, you have to raise the set on the wall, which as I mentioned, compromises the video.

And further, the optimal placement for a center channel is always above the screen, not below. There's several reasons for this, one being that the human ear has a harder time localizing sounds from above than it does from below, and secondly there's less interference from things like coffee tables, feet in recliners, etc. when the center channel is above the display.

Placing a display on the wall doesn't help with center channel placement at all, because you still have the ability to put the center channel above the display when it's on a lowboy (or below, if for some reason you're set on that).

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#58 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

No, optimal is to have the image at eye level and the center channel at ear level (psst. that's the same thing). So, to have the center channel ideally placed, you have to raise the set on the wall, which as I mentioned, compromises the video.

And further, the optimal placement for a center channel is always above the screen, not below. There's several reasons for this, one being that the human ear has a harder time localizing sounds from above than it does from below, and secondly there's less interference from things like coffee tables, feet in recliners, etc. when the center channel is above the display.

Placing a display on the wall doesn't help with center channel placement at all, because you still have the ability to put the center channel above the display when it's on a lowboy (or below, if for some reason you're set on that).


False. Believe what you want to believe however. Your setup must look and sound awful.
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#59 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:53 PM

LOL, I've forgotten more about home theater than you'll ever know.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#60 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

LOL, I've forgotten more about home theater than you'll ever know.


That doesn't appear to be the case, but enough already.
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#61 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:44 AM

Why do you want to gain viewing distance? Most people already sit too far from their displays. The objective should be to reduce viewing distance.


really? I guess the professional's that setup my home viewing area know less then you, I guess I should have hired you to come out and design the room, then you would have thought it was perfect. not..

#62 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:29 AM

really? I guess the professional's that setup my home viewing area know less then you, I guess I should have hired you to come out and design the room, then you would have thought it was perfect. not..


+1......Some people are a legend in their own mind. :sure:

DIRECTV customer since 1995.


#63 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

really? I guess the professional's that setup my home viewing area know less then you, I guess I should have hired you to come out and design the room, then you would have thought it was perfect. not..


Well, if you classify yourself as sitting too far away from your display than I guess so.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#64 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:51 AM

Sure, it's possible, but I've never seen that scenario in any living room I've visited or photo I've seen.


Well, in my Family Room, with the way it is laid out, with a RPTV my viewing distance was under 7 feet, which is less than what would be normally recommended. With the replacement flat-screen wall-mounted, my viewing distance increased to just over 8 feet.

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#65 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:55 AM

False. Believe what you want to believe however. Your setup must look and sound awful.


So, which part are you disagreeing with?

The part where we have a harder time localizing sounds from above than below?

Here's a good old post from a gentleman at Audio Experts (Sam Stone), where I first read about the phenomenon, where he says this:

The center channel speaker should be located right OVER the viewing device. A little-known fact about human hearing is that we are very good at locating sounds that come from below ear level, but not when it's above ear level. So if you want your center channel dialog to sound like it's coming from the actor's mouths, located the center channel above the screen instead of below it (the ultimate is directly behind a perforated screen, like theaters do, but if you have a TV that's not possible).

Now, you could say it's just some guy on a message board, and that might be true, but Here's a paper on sound localization and about halfway down (10th paragraph), you'll find this:

In each trial a surface thatreflects sound was placed along a wall, the floor, or the ceiling. Itwas found that if the reflecting surface was on the ceiling, thesubjects could not locate the sound as effectively. While if it wereon the floor the subjects did significantly better at localizing.

which also supports this idea that we localize sound better from below than above. This is also the reason side and rear surrounds are placed above the ear (usually 2'). If the center channel is not on the same plane as the head, you don't want to be able to localize it, therefore above is better than below.

Or, were you disagreeing with the part where objects (coffee tables, etc.) are more likely to get in the way when a speaker is toward the floor versus above? If that's the case, you must have a strange layout with things hanging in mid-air in your room.

Now, if you have some anecdotal evidence to the contrary, by all means share.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#66 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:58 AM

Well, in my Family Room, with the way it is laid out, with a RPTV my viewing distance was under 7 feet, which is less than what would be normally recommended. With the replacement flat-screen wall-mounted, my viewing distance increased to just over 8 feet.

- Merg


Sure, there's always specific contrary examples, but I'd say your situation is probably rare. And BTW, 7' of viewing distance is perfect for a 60" display (to get the full benefit of 1080p). 8' is the sweet spot for a 65".

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#67 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

The bottom line is there are no true set of standards for viewing distances. Variances differ. Professional installers have their standards, manufacturer's have their standards, retailers theirs, THX theirs, ect., ect., ect.

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#68 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

There might be variances, but Carlton Bale's standards for viewing distance, based on what the human eye can see, are pretty universally accepted.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#69 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:27 AM

There might be variances, but Carlton Bale's standards for viewing distance, based on what the human eye can see, are pretty universally accepted.


So was the belief that the earth was flat. Personally I'd put him in that group I listed in post #67.

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#70 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:46 AM

spartanstew, in a half empty movie theater, do you say to those folks sitting in the first couple of rows, "You realize you're sitting too close, right? You really should move ten rows back."
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#71 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

Nope, personal preference certainly comes into play (I tend to sit closer than recommended), but that doesn't have any effect on the standards.

If someone enjoys sitting 15' away from their 60" display, that's their choice, but they're not getting the full effect of 1080p when doing so - in fact, they're not even getting the full effect of 720p.

Some people like having their surrounds (in a 5.1 set up) directly behind the listening area (for many reasons), instead of to the sides of the listening area. That's OK too, but it's not the standard and any professional that set the room up would know that - just like a professional would know the optimal seating distance from the display.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#72 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:18 PM

Nope, personal preference certainly comes into play (I tend to sit closer than recommended), but that doesn't have any effect on the standards.

If someone enjoys sitting 15' away from their 60" display, that's their choice, but they're not getting the full effect of 1080p when doing so - in fact, they're not even getting the full effect of 720p.

Some people like having their surrounds (in a 5.1 set up) directly behind the listening area (for many reasons), instead of to the sides of the listening area. That's OK too, but it's not the standard and any professional that set the room up would know that - just like a professional would know the optimal seating distance from the display.


List your equipment.
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#73 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

Carrot length contest time

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#74 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:19 AM

Well, if you classify yourself as sitting too far away from your display than I guess so.


pray tell, where exactly did I state that I was "sitting to far away from my display"? In those words, not a implied understanding of the reader

#75 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:17 PM

pray tell, where exactly did I state that I was "sitting to far away from my display"? In those words, not a implied understanding of the reader


Why else would you think the professional's that set up your viewing area would know less than I?

I stated that most people sit too far away and the objective should be to reduce viewing distance.

You seemed to take offense at that, which could only mean you fit into that category. If you don't fit into that category (sitting too far away), than why would you reply?

If yours was set up correctly, than you would not be in the "most" category and my comments wouldn't even pertain to you, no?


Why do you want to gain viewing distance? Most people already sit too far from their displays. The objective should be to reduce viewing distance.


really? I guess the professional's that setup my home viewing area know less then you, I guess I should have hired you to come out and design the room, then you would have thought it was perfect. not..


I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000




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