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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Mitsubishi finally waves the white flag


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95 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:48 AM

In terms of sound quality, phonograph records are better than CDs which are better than MP3s.


I'll never be able to agree with that. Every last one of the hundreds of LPs I've had exhibit the same thing - I can hear the 'hiss' from the needle in the groove. Now, with older CDs, I heard the 'hiss' of the original master tapes because they were in analog. Never mind the fact that, no matter how carefully you handle an album, you will always eventually get popping anc clicking from dirt and other imperfections. You need perfect storage conditions or the LPs will warp - and even a slight warp ruins a song.

When I buy a CD today, the first thing I do is rip it to my hard drive. I keep the bit rate as high as it will go. But I find it amusing that people still argue over sound quality when their ears can't hear many of the aspects of it. Heck, teenagers found a ringtone for phones that almost everyone over 40 CAN'T HEAR. Mine tried it out on me once and I could *barely* hear a clicking noise and my hearing is still pretty damn good. CDs sample up to 40khz, if I remember correctly and we can hear only into the 20s.

Yeah, if you're talking about an MP3 with a 128kbps bitrate, you CAN hear the difference. No argument there. And yeah, you're losing information. But I listen to music in the car, on the street, in a room that is NOT a recording studio, etc. In most of those places, a 320kbps MP3 will be indescernible from any other recording.

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#42 OFFLINE   1980ws

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:55 AM

I have 55" Mitsubishi RPT I bought in February 2004. It is our main TV. Other than an occasional convergence, I haven't touched the thing. Just the other day I said to the Mrs. about what a nice picture it still is. Different from my two smaller flat screens, but still pleasing to my eye. Goods seem to last for us though. We have a Whirlpool W&D and a Toro lawn mower we still use, all purchased in 1991. Not sure if I had to replace the TV if I would have bought another RPT.

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#43 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:11 AM

But I find it amusing that people still argue over sound quality when their ears can't hear many of the aspects of it.

Come over to my house. You'd hear the superiority of analog immediately. It isn't even subtle. As a friend, hardly an audiophile, said after a listening session, "This sounds too good to have died." Euphonic is the right word for the sound the best analog can achieve. It's agreeable, pleasing and sweet.

And if we played a MP3 file on my analog system? You'd echo Don McLean in American Pie. "The day the music died."

As for vinyl rumble, which you call hiss*, it is audible on soft passages but I do not find it annoying except in the worst instances. You do have to get past the first 30 seconds of vinyl on some records. The record pressing process itself can make the lead in grooves and the first few seconds of music the worst in terms of vinyl noise.

EDIT: *The hiss of a master tape is audible on some records but a lot of good vinyl is being mastered off of 30ips analog tapes, which have almost no hiss, or off of 24 bit/96K digital, which sounds excellent. I have no problem with hi-res digital. I record using it and can't hear any degradation. Older records, where they music may be from a 1/4" tape going at 7 1/2 ips, yes, you can hear tape hiss, but it is at a low level that is quickly masked by the music. There are worse things than hiss. It's like complaining about the weaving in the canvas of a painting or the sediment at the bottom of the glass from a great bottle of wine. I'll take the warmth of vinyl, the stereo image of an lp, the depth, air and three dimensionality of a great analog recording and put up with a few pops, ticks, rumble and hiss any day.

Neil Young said it best maybe 25 years ago. Analog, he said, is like soothing water rushing over you. Digital is like ice cubes falling on your head.

EDIT EDIT - BACK ON TOPIC: If you re-read my post, djlong, you will see I was arguing for the marketing and human engineering superiority of MP3s over either CDs or vinyl, and that how Mitsubishi was foolish pushing their belief that rear projection DLP was superior. In the quiet of my living room I can appreciate vinyl but in the real world, I know the battle is lost. MP3s won. So have flat screen televisions.

Edited by Carl Spock, 09 December 2012 - 08:41 AM.

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#44 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:35 AM

Yep thats what i want to set closer to the wall to watch LOL :eek2:


simple visual math

1. WD73642 - 65.2" x 43.6" x 17.9
2. M650VSE - 60.35"W x 36.46"H x 2.58

By the simple reason the depth of the two devices are about 15 inches in difference you gain an additional 15 inches of viewing distance. The is a current run DLP comparision, you go to some of the older units that where the depth of the device was almost double the viewing distance is increased even more. Simple, logical thought processes :heybaby:

#45 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

Outside of the false insinuation that only Mitsubishi DLP TVs are good, practicality and good human engineering trump performance every day of the week.

.

Mitsubishi lost millions of dollars in forfeited sales because they couldn't get over it.

Couldn't agree more.

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#46 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

That depends. There are no DLP's that can beat or meet the best flat panel displays on the market today, aside from price.


I don't agree. While I would agree that DLP doesn't beat plasma even from an entry level plasma, I sure couldn't say that about the LCD/LED panels I've seen.

If I were to buy a big screen this year, it would either be a bigger plasma or a much bigger DLP. LCD/LED need not apply. :)

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#47 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

I don't agree. While I would agree that DLP doesn't beat plasma even from an entry level plasma, I sure couldn't say that about the LCD/LED panels I've seen.

If I were to buy a big screen this year, it would either be a bigger plasma or a much bigger DLP. LCD/LED need not apply. :)


I tend to despise LCD, but the Sharp Elite and Sony XBR-HX950 can compete with the Panasonic VT50. Behind those two...I wouldn't buy an LCD.
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#48 OFFLINE   klang

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:48 AM

I have 55" Mitsubishi RPT I bought in February 2004. It is our main TV. Other than an occasional convergence, I haven't touched the thing. Just the other day I said to the Mrs. about what a nice picture it still is. Different from my two smaller flat screens, but still pleasing to my eye. Goods seem to last for us though. We have a Whirlpool W&D and a Toro lawn mower we still use, all purchased in 1991. Not sure if I had to replace the TV if I would have bought another RPT.


You will be amazed if you replace the lamp. I have a 55" Sony SXRD set from 2006. Lamp went out a couple years ago. Had no idea how much the original lamp had dimmed over the years. Like having a brand new set. :)

#49 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

You will be amazed if you replace the lamp. I have a 55" Sony SXRD set from 2006. Lamp went out a couple years ago. Had no idea how much the original lamp had dimmed over the years. Like having a brand new set. :)


A new lamp can do wonders!

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#50 OFFLINE   BLMN

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

I'm an owner of 2 mitsubishi sets. bought my first one in 2010 (a C9 model), had to replace the bulb ($99) this year but we used the tv a lot. did not stop me on buying a second model (2011 one). just hope the technical support stays on for some good years now or i will have to start stock piling some bulbs here :)

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#51 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

simple visual math

1. WD73642 - 65.2" x 43.6" x 17.9
2. M650VSE - 60.35"W x 36.46"H x 2.58

By the simple reason the depth of the two devices are about 15 inches in difference you gain an additional 15 inches of viewing distance. The is a current run DLP comparision, you go to some of the older units that where the depth of the device was almost double the viewing distance is increased even more. Simple, logical thought processes :heybaby:


Why do you want to gain viewing distance? Most people already sit too far from their displays. The objective should be to reduce viewing distance.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#52 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

Why do you want to gain viewing distance? Most people already sit too far from their displays. The objective should be to reduce viewing distance.


Depends on the size of the display. It also possible to be too close.
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#53 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

Sure, it's possible, but I've never seen that scenario in any living room I've visited or photo I've seen.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#54 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Sure, it's possible, but I've never seen that scenario in any living room I've visited or photo I've seen.


Regardless, there are better ways to adjust your seating distance from the display. Wall mounting also allows for better positioning of a center channel.
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#55 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:46 PM

Wall mounting also allows for better positioning of a center channel.


Only if you sacrifice viewing angle. I'd much rather have the display at the proper height and the center channel above and angled toward the listener - you'd swear it's coming right from the display when done properly.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#56 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

Only if you sacrifice viewing angle. I'd much rather have the display at the proper height and the center channel above and angled toward the listener - you'd swear it's coming right from the display when done properly.


Not when you can have the best of both worlds. A wall mounted display with the center of the image at eye level with the center channel in its optimal position for proper calibration, just below the screen. (Actually, optimal would be behind an acoustically transparent projector screen.)
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#57 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

Not when you can have the best of both worlds. A wall mounted display with the center of the image at eye level with the center channel in its optimal position for proper calibration, just below the screen. (Actually, optimal would be behind an acoustically transparent projector screen.)


No, optimal is to have the image at eye level and the center channel at ear level (psst. that's the same thing). So, to have the center channel ideally placed, you have to raise the set on the wall, which as I mentioned, compromises the video.

And further, the optimal placement for a center channel is always above the screen, not below. There's several reasons for this, one being that the human ear has a harder time localizing sounds from above than it does from below, and secondly there's less interference from things like coffee tables, feet in recliners, etc. when the center channel is above the display.

Placing a display on the wall doesn't help with center channel placement at all, because you still have the ability to put the center channel above the display when it's on a lowboy (or below, if for some reason you're set on that).

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#58 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

No, optimal is to have the image at eye level and the center channel at ear level (psst. that's the same thing). So, to have the center channel ideally placed, you have to raise the set on the wall, which as I mentioned, compromises the video.

And further, the optimal placement for a center channel is always above the screen, not below. There's several reasons for this, one being that the human ear has a harder time localizing sounds from above than it does from below, and secondly there's less interference from things like coffee tables, feet in recliners, etc. when the center channel is above the display.

Placing a display on the wall doesn't help with center channel placement at all, because you still have the ability to put the center channel above the display when it's on a lowboy (or below, if for some reason you're set on that).


False. Believe what you want to believe however. Your setup must look and sound awful.
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#59 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:53 PM

LOL, I've forgotten more about home theater than you'll ever know.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#60 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

LOL, I've forgotten more about home theater than you'll ever know.


That doesn't appear to be the case, but enough already.
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