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C31 New Install - Not seeing HR34


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12 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:03 PM

I have DirecTV out right now for my Genie install to replace a couple of HR20's and H21/H23's with an HR34 and three C31's. The HR34 is up and running, but none of the C31's seem to see the HR34.

The C31's are on the network, obtaining an IP address, and I can ping them, so network connectivity is up. The HR34 can see my other HR21's in whole home, so the connectivity between the HR34 and the rest of the network is fine.

My question is this - if the C31 is not properly authorized/updated on the account, will they just not find the HR34 at all or will they find it and complain that they are not authorized? Right now the tech thinks DirecTV has messed something up on the account and he's on hold waiting for them. I can't find any information about the discovery process.

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

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#2 OFFLINE   JBv

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

I have DirecTV out right now for my Genie install to replace a couple of HR20's and H21/H23's with an HR34 and three C31's. The HR34 is up and running, but none of the C31's seem to see the HR34.

The C31's are on the network, obtaining an IP address, and I can ping them, so network connectivity is up. The HR34 can see my other HR21's in whole home, so the connectivity between the HR34 and the rest of the network is fine.

My question is this - if the C31 is not properly authorized/updated on the account, will they just not find the HR34 at all or will they find it and complain that they are not authorized? Right now the tech thinks DirecTV has messed something up on the account and he's on hold waiting for them. I can't find any information about the discovery process.


They should see it.
If they're just on the "Cannot find server" screen there's something wrong.
Now if the HR34 is saying there aren't any clients authorized on the account and call DirecTV to add one, then there's an account issue.

Edit: Make sure the network light is solid green. And that the HR34 is indeed powered up and playing video and not rebooting or doing a software download. I can't think of anything else at this time...
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The postings on this site are my own and do not represent DirecTV's positions, strategies, or opinions.

#3 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

I presume you've tried the whole rebooting process, and that isn't a problem.
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#4 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:51 PM

Yep - tried rebooting everything, lights are green on the C31's. Right now have physically moved the HR34 to the same location as the C31 and have them connected to the same 2-port splitter. Still no go :-(

How do these things discover each other? I know RVU uses parts of the DNLA spec. I'm taking a wireshark capture off the port where the Cinema connection kit is plugged in and I'm not really seeing much of anything from the clients. I see it boot up and successfully get an IP address from the DHCP server, but that's about it.

Of course I can't actually see what's going on in the DECA cloud - I can only see what comes out of it, but I would think broadcast and multicast packets should make it out of the DECA cloud.

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

#5 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

And to answer JBv's question - the HR34 is working fine as far as being able to get programming, see playlists, and even watch programs from the existing HD-DVR's.

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

How do these things discover each other? I know RVU uses parts of the DNLA spec. I'm taking a wireshark capture off the port where the Cinema connection kit is plugged in and I'm not really seeing much of anything from the clients. I see it boot up and successfully get an IP address from the DHCP server, but that's about it.

Of course I can't actually see what's going on in the DECA cloud - I can only see what comes out of it, but I would think broadcast and multicast packets should make it out of the DECA cloud.

The server and clients are using a 169.xxx IP to each other.
If the C31 can't find a server, it should boot to searching for server, and then have a screen without one listed and a retry option.
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#7 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:30 PM

I'm getting closer... on a hunch, I decided to just disconnect the Cinema Connection kit to disconnect the DECA cloud from the rest of my network/Internet. Now everything is working fine. Of course they are no longer getting IP addresses from my DHCP server and instead are just using self-assigned 169.x.x.x addresses.

The C31's just went through a software upgrade. After they're done, I'll try rebooting everything with the network connected again and see if they come up. Crossing fingers....

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

#8 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

This could be a uPNP issue. We've seen that before. Have you enabled special uPNP settings on your router, or do you use other devices like IPTV media streamers or DLNA servers on the same network?
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#9 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Yes, I have quite a few uPnP devices in my network. I have several Sonos medial players, two NASes (QNAP and ReadyNAS). There are also uPnP clients like my blu ray players and PS3's. When I get back home I will try reconnecting and see where we go from there, but I was able to get the three clients connected while unplugged from the network.

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

#10 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

Here's the latest update. If I plug the DECA cloud back into the network, everything continues to work fine, however if I power-cycle one of the C31's, it won't come up - it goes back to the select a server screen. If I just unplug the network again and power-cycle, it comes up fine.

I'm going to try two things:

1. Move the DECA cloud to its own dedicated VLAN so that it's on its own subnet and won't see any of the broadcasts from the other DNLA devices, but will still be using the same network infrastructure and DHCP server and therefore still be able to get out to the Internet. If this works, then I know it's something on the network causing the issue which will lead me to the next step.

2. Disconnect all DLNA devices and then try to reboot a C31 while connected to the network. If this works, then add the DLNA devices back on one at a time to see which one is causing the problem.

Assuming I'm able to isolate this down to a particular device, what is the best way to get this information to DirecTV to get a fix?

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

Probably post your findings here and I'll see if I can have it get some eyes on it.
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:53 PM

So I've done #1 - moving all the DirecTV equipment to a separate subnet - and everything works fine including Internet access and on demand, so the problem must be something on the network that is causing the discovery to fail. I'll try to run through some tests tomorrow and will report back...

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network

#13 OFFLINE   pgiralt

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:59 PM

Finally got to the bottom of this one after pulling my hairs out. I ended up pretty much removing everything else from my network and the problem still happened. I then shut down the internet connection on my router and the problem went away which didn't make any sense because it was working fine with Internet connectivity on the new subnet I had created.

Then it occurred to me what the problem might be - proxy ARP. I disabled proxy-arp on the inside interface and the problem went away. Here is what I think is happening:

The C31 boots up and immediately starts ARPing for a bunch of different link-local addresses in the 169.254.x.x range. I'm guessing there are some pre-defined link-local addresses that the HR34 will try to use and the C31 just goes through all the various options trying to find the HR34. What was happening when I had proxy ARP enabled was that the router would reply to all those ARP requests telling the C31 to come to it to get to those addresses. When the internet connection was down, the router no longer had a route to anywhere other than the local network, so it stopped replying to the ARP requests because it didn't know how to get to the 169.254.x.x networks. This is why shutting down the outside interface made things work.

Now, after the C31 makes all these attempts using the link-local addresses, it goes out to the DHCP server and gets a proper IP address, but then it seems that it doesn't actually do anything with it. Perhaps it gets used for streaming on-demand content directly from the Internet instead of having it streamed to the HR34 first - I'm not sure. Whatever the case, it doesn't look like the real IP address it gets from DHCP is ever actually used to communicate with the HR34. There doesn't appear to be any real discovery mechanism as I was expecting with some kind of a broadcast or multicast packet looking for the HR34. As far as I can tell it's just a brute-force trying every address on some pre-defined list looking for the HR34. Because the router was replying to those ARP requests, the C31 tried going to the router instead of to the HR34.

I know proxy ARP is evil and I'm surprised I hadn't disabled it already. My environment is probably not typical in that I have a real Cisco router running IOS (not a Linksys router), but Cisco IOS defaults to proxy arp being enabled (don't ask me why). I'm not sure if there are consumer-grade routers that have proxy ARP enabled by default, but if there are, I guarantee others will see this problem. The reason I didn't have the problem on the new subnet I had created was that the routing interface was on a layer 3 switch which does not do proxy arp by default.

I can understand DirecTV wanting to use link-local addresses so that a DECA cloud can exist on its own without any Internet connection or DHCP server/router in the picture, but if the C31 gets a valid IP address from a DHCP server, perhaps they should do something with that address to communicate with the HR34. Perhaps send out a link-local multicast packet (i.e. 224.0.0.x) whereby the HR34 could listen for that and reply - or even better - why not use IPv6?

As I said, I don't know how many others will run into this, but it might be worth DirecTV looking into how they might be able to deal with this condition. It's certainly one that if a field tech runs into it, they will have no idea how to figure out this is the root cause. At the very least, field techs should be trained to disconnect the DECA cloud from the rest of the network as a troubleshooting step if they run into this condition.

If there's any data I can collect to help out, just let me know.

Thanks for everyone who chimed in to help.

HR34-700 HDMI to Sony KDL40-XBR3 LCD
HR21PRO-100 HDMI to JVC DLA-RS2 - DECA
HR21-100 HDMI to Panasonic 50" Plasma - DECA
C31 HDMI-to Panasonic 60" Plasma
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD and Component out to Slingbox Pro
C31 HDMI->DVI to Samsung 19" LCD
Dish: AU9 to SWM16
DECA - connected to Ethernet network




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