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211 HD quality if poor


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54 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   mstar

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

SADLY no OTA is available in my area due to a mountain blocking the NY signals. I could not get analog back in the day either and thus why I went cable then Sat.

Worst is ABC morning shows.
Not sure there is a betst but reather better on the higher end.

Images are soft which I call slieghtly out of focus.


OK so since some suggested, I picked up a 42" Pansonci X5 plasma
Yes lower rated but I am keeping things consistant.
I can report that everythign is SOFT. ANd thus the defects are too hard to notice at that size and 720p. I can say Rachel Ray is the worst show so maybe that is their broadcast which is odd since they moved to a new HD studio in September.

I do not say the defects in the Dish quality are not there, just that Plasma HIDES it better or better deals with it.

However I have not yet tried a larger LCD/LED TV to see if it is the form factor that is the issue.

I would say if the LCD peformed the same as the Panasonic plasma, I would not have posted. But size and space is an issue. Even the $700 Samsung LED was 32" so I still have to rule out size. Or it coudl be sub feild in plasma helps allot.

As I have been asking, if those in 43" and under want to post their model numbers, that might help.

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#42 OFFLINE   mstar

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

sat crazy. CNN looks soft ie slieghtly out of focus and pixelated in their drop in feeds when they are showing video PnP. Some interviews have some noise around the moving mouth but no where near the netowrks. Best network seems to be CBS worst ABC. Worst show day time is Rachel ray. Even in plasma the defects are there but since the plasma was so soft in focus allot would be absorbed and with the 720p resolution, it harder to notice the tracking issues. As I said above, maybe 42" TVs handle things different than 32"?

#43 OFFLINE   peano

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:15 PM

Plasma is the best choice for PQ. LCD struggles with many things, especially motion blur. I set my Dish receivers to output 1080i. Looks sharper to me than 720p.

#44 OFFLINE   mstar

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

That might be a reality but that does not mean Dish is putting out a quality signal.
Also this model plasma suffers from issues with brightness. This model can not adjust the 2.5% over scan and it can not be calibrated in some areas. Brightness and Contrast leave little to no room and are turned almost all the way up with the white scenes becoming gray vs white. Black is OK but murky black rahter than detailed black.
If for not the gray whites when the screen is say with a white background looking washed out and the soft focus, I would say this one is going back to the store.

#45 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

In many markets ABC is one of the worst. They are 720p... and if your market is like mine they also bit-starve it by putting another 720p sub-channel OTA... so when Dish picks it up and re-transmits it, it gets a little worse than that.

The morning shows on most channels are probably not spectacular. I can't imagine they invested in the best equipment for those types of programming.

I can't speak to CNN except to note that on many of the news channels their in-studio stuff gets the best cameras, and their remote feeds might even be SD cameras since they embed them in the larger screen anyway they don't always both with an HD remote feed for a talking head that will take half or less of the broadcast screen.

Some of the other stuff I still chalk up to you looking too closely. You know, if you sit close enough to a CRT you can pick out the RGB dots on some screens... the MPEG "smears" and such are going to be on pretty much any moving image given that broadcast (Dish, DirecTV, cable, OTA, etc.) has more compression to get the most use out of their limited bandwidth.

Unless you get a pure uncompressed feed from the original source, you're going to be able to pick at it. I see flaws in what many people rave as "reference" blu-ray releases, if I sit close enough and pick at them.

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#46 OFFLINE   mstar

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:41 AM

While I might have expected too much from HD TV from Dish Network, it NOT me looking too closely. Please, lets just drop that.
What I am seeing IS NOT like standing too close to a CRT.It is not the matrix of dots that make up the screen rather than a pixelation around mouths and moving faces.

Even the Dish tech saw it from a few feet away when looking at LCD. It is like telling someone to squint and prentend you do not see something.

Please understand it was me sitting 7 feet away from a 32" inch and seeing something was wrong that I moved closer to inspect what actually was happening.

This journey was to try to determine which is the problem or combo of both.

My friends panasonci LCD looks great on HD CABLE so is it really the shows there can be a difference on the same stations.

Look I am not trying to knock Dish, I just keep trying the suggestions and trying to determine if it is the service, installation or TV. I have tried too many TVs to think it is the TV.

LCD looks great on Blu ray so I am sorry, it is not the brand or quality of the LCD if they all look great and Blu ray does have SOME compression . Less than the Broadcasts but there is some in codecs and the mpeg-2 wrapper.

If I go a size LCD up and still see it , I wil have to conclude that Dish and LCD do not mix unless you stand 20 feet away.
I might go with plasma but is it worth all the sacrifices in extra cost, more energy use, and extra weight. I really can not afford the top line of anything and size is still an issue.
It would be really sad if I woul dhave to go that way just to make the Dish signal look better.

The only reason I have not given up yet is some still say their 211k and LCD look NEAR Blu ray. I have not yet found anyone to let me see their set up on their LCD so I could see

#47 OFFLINE   CeeWoo

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

I suspect that you are more sensitive to PQ than I am. I have a 32" lcd tv connected to a 211 & a 42" plasma (as well as another 32" LCD) connected to a 722k. At least for me the pic on the tv connected to the 211 is about the same as the pic on the plasma. And to me, they're both great

If your friend has better quality on the HD cable, and you're not happy with your quality on Dish you may well be better off making that switch. You might first ask your friend 'if' it's ok for you to bring over your set and connect it to his cable first (maybe that will help determine for certain if it's the cable that is giving him the pic you desire)

Many years back, I was with Direct. I also noticed a different pic quality when I changed to Dish. To me, the dish pict was 'softer'. I changed my brightness & contrast setting on the tv and all was good. BUT this was before HD was even an option-so my experience probably counts for nothing on that

#48 OFFLINE   mstar

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

Cee Woo, I agree, I have to find a time he is off during the day to do a true test and bring over my TV. While that will answer the Dish quality issue, We have a monopoly with Service Electric being the ONLY cable provider and their prices is $25-30 higher per month. It is a real shame Dish is more concerned about cramming with poor quality "HD" in Mpeg 4 rather than focusing on quality. If I have to buy a $1000+ TV just to make Dish look good, I will back to my CRT or dump Dish.

#49 OFFLINE   Rduce

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

I do not think we are talking about sub quality HD, but rather an industry standard. There is only so much bandwidth and to be honest you are in the minority that reports being unhappy with the PQ.

If that translates to less than 5% I think DISH would call that a WIN. I have a friend that has DIRECT and the exact same model television and I cannot honestly tell any difference between the PQ on either set. He says he can detect a very slight difference when he is over, but nothing that would make him switch services if he had DISH. He still bemoans that DIRECT still does not have some of the HD channels that DISH does, for instance REELS. I cannot fathom why anyone watches that channel, but to each their own.

I used to think I was picky back when I was with my local cable company, before cable boxes and you just connected their cable to your set. The God awful wavy lines and snow that they never could get rid of on nearly every channel.

I though I died and gone to heaven when I switched to DISH 10 years ago with an 322 SD receiver. So I am truly sorry you cannot find the PQ you are happy with!

#50 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

Cee Woo, I agree, I have to find a time he is off during the day to do a true test and bring over my TV. While that will answer the Dish quality issue, We have a monopoly with Service Electric being the ONLY cable provider and their prices is $25-30 higher per month. It is a real shame Dish is more concerned about cramming with poor quality "HD" in Mpeg 4 rather than focusing on quality. If I have to buy a $1000+ TV just to make Dish look good, I will back to my CRT or dump Dish.


If we could see what you are seeing, maybe we could have different answers... but we are all looking at the same satellite feeds as you... and you're the only one having the complaint. That's why we can't come up with different answers.

Nobody ever said Dish was perfect... nobody is... but we really don't know how your HDTV is adjusted, if you are accidentally zooming the image either at the TV or from the Dish receiver... what channels or programs you are specifically watching that are the worse (except for a couple you mentioned).

You could have the contrast or brightness turned up too much on the TV... many TVs come with these settings too high... perhaps your friend with the good looking cable HD has his TV adjusted for a better appearance.

At this point it doesn't look like we can give you any better answers... and it certainly does sound like your best option is going to be going elsewhere since it doesn't seem like you will be happy at Dish.

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#51 OFFLINE   gtal98

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

Brightness and Contrast leave little to no room and are turned almost all the way up with the white scenes becoming gray vs white. Black is OK but murky black rahter than detailed black.


You could have the contrast or brightness turned up too much on the TV... many TVs come with these settings too high... perhaps your friend with the good looking cable HD has his TV adjusted for a better appearance.


I'm starting to think this is the issue. Turning the "sharpness" up on an HDTV actually tends to cause more artifacting than eliminating it like you think it would. Mine is almost all the way down.

mstar - try and find a Blu-ray or DVD with a THX optimizer feature on it and follow the instructions. This will help you properly calibrate your TV settings to see if that's the issue.

#52 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

mstar:

here are my panny settings, even though it is a higher end model, give it a try.
"Mode" setting- Never use "standard", it is Very dark, I like cinema or cutom.
color temp- warm 1
color management-off
CATS- off
Video NR- "weak" [ you might try med.]

If you have HDMI settings and "advanced" settings I can pass those on too.

contrast is 68, sharpness 42 . brightness at 60.

Settings are subjective, you have to find what suits you.

You have to realize though, that at some point the crt will expire. You don't have a lot of options, high cable bill, no OTA., and a sat picture you are not happy with. You also have a contract with Dish, right? If they will let you out, The other sat provider is your only option. You need to do some experimenting/exploring, so take your TV to your friend's, and try his set up. If he has plasma, look at his settings as well.

I'm not sure how much more info this forum can give you.

Good luck!

#53 OFFLINE   Michael1

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:50 AM

Try Bloomberg. If that channel isn't sharp (except for the scrolling ticker at the bottom), then it is your TV. Also turn off all the image processing. Usually, it messes up the picture. There are some TVs that won't actually turn if off, even though it says "Off" (Sharp comes to mind), but it should minimize it.

Also some networks purposely blur the images of the faces of their hosts. The NBC Olympics was horrible for this. Maybe they were afraid we would see all their wrinkles. Their faces were literally SD quality. Sometimes, they would screw up, and another camera would catch them in HD, warts and all.

Also as a DIRT representative pointed out to me, some old movies are not scanned well into HD.

Michael

#54 OFFLINE   winman97

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

Well we haven't heard anything in 3 weeks, so what's happening?
If you have a friend with Dish HD set up, why don't you take your 211 receiver there and do a fast change out to test the receiver under totally different enviroment. I have a vip211 and a vip222 and both perform flawlessly, One on a 50" plasma and one on a 40" LCD.

#55 OFFLINE   lonerwulf

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 06:50 PM

Omg just deal with it




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