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DIRECTV 4k Ultra HD Channel Anticipation


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82 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

The Minolta's are high-end and highly regarded.
DTV = Digital Television

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#62 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

The Minolta's are high-end and highly regarded.

Yes they are.

It's refreshing to read something from an informed source posting here.
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#63 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

Yes they are.

It's refreshing to read something from an informed source posting here.


Don't get used to it. :)
DTV = Digital Television

#64 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

Don't get used to it. :)

Now that's just plain funny. :lol::rolling::icon_lol:
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#65 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

I don't own a spectroradiometer. I only have a SpectraCal C6 with CalMAN 5. Which ain't too shabby...
DTV = Digital Television

#66 OFFLINE   lipcrkr

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:19 AM

Wrong...the 4K HDTVs cost no where near that kind of money... ;)

The 84" Sony you reference even shows up on their website at retail pricing <$25K...

http://store.sony.co...CFQ0GnQodwm8AHQ

Even at retail, they are < 1/3 the cost you describe. By this time next year...they'll be much less. And that's for a 4K HDTV with a huge 84" screen in comparison.

As for the difference in imagery...if you indeed saw 4K original content on an 4K HDTV as you state...and claim your 1080p 55" Samsung "looked just as good"...then one has to wonder about that observation as well.


Sorry for the mis-statement, i meant 30K which is what the placard said in November. And yes, i saw original 4k content on the 84". And i also said my 55" HDTV looked just as good IN MY OPINION. Most of us can't afford a $5000 dollar TV let alone a 25k TV. Most of us don't have space in our apartments/houses for TV above 65". So i will once again say that my 55" IN MY OPINION, is just as good on DIRECTV HDTV as any 4k content.........IN MY OPINION.

#67 OFFLINE   scoop8

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:28 AM

I don't know where you get your Statistics from but for a 55-60" needing a distance under 6' I strongly disagree.

I have a 55" and I am 8 to 10 feet away which is Perfect and anything closer woud allow you to see a Grainey Picture.

Typically it is 2 times the Viewing Size of the Display Device so a 60" would be 5 feet times 2 or 10 feet. :)


My viewing distance is about the same as the 2x rule of thumb that you mentioned. I have a 50" Panny Plasma (1080p '08) and I'm about 8.5 ft from the screen. I've tried a closer viewing distance but I seem to be more comfortable with he current distance.

I've looked at a couple of those online "viewing distance" calculators and most of them recommend a closer distance but it's all subjective as someone mentioned here. Calculators are ok to get an idea of what the THX, etc, recommendations are, but it's the individual's pair of eyes that will decide what's best for them.

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#68 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

Sorry for the mis-statement, i meant 30K which is what the placard said in November. And yes, i saw original 4k content on the 84". And i also said my 55" HDTV looked just as good IN MY OPINION. Most of us can't afford a $5000 dollar TV let alone a 25k TV. Most of us don't have space in our apartments/houses for TV above 65". So i will once again say that my 55" IN MY OPINION, is just as good on DIRECTV HDTV as any 4k content.........IN MY OPINION.

No sweat - that explains the $90K amount - opinions are always welcome. :)

Seems you're enjoying your 55" HDTV, and that's a good thing.

You posed an interesting question - What is the real market for the very-large HDTVs?

What I have seen is that a 60" HDTV is no longer "king of the hill" as it was just a few years back. I have many friends with 60" or larger displays, but those of us at DBSTalk don't always experience the mainstream view....

My 116" HD front projector setup isn't exactly "average", yet there seem to be a number of folks here with similar setups - more than some might think. My 55" Sony is my "secondary" display.

What is obvious (based on various retail store promotions), is that there are more and more larger displays becoming available for purchase. That would seem to encourage manufacturers to consider 4K content delivered on 4K HDTVs in the 60" and larger range.

A number of DBSTalkers will be at the 2013 Consumer Electronics Show in just over 2 weeks...and we'll make it a point to look around for the 4K HDTVs and ask more questions on future plans.

In the mean time, I agree that DirecTV HD content does look quite nice on our current displays.
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#69 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

That's an interesting question.

At the last Consumer Electronics Show (Jan 12), a number of us saw several 4K HDTVs presented - with stunning imagery. There was even a 3D 4K HDTV shown (the images below show the 4K HDTV and the 3D HDTV demo units). The Sharp booth had an 8K HDTV.

The important point of note on that is only 1 device we saw was actually running 4K original content - the rest showing 1080p content on the 4K devices. The one unit showing 4K content on a 4K HDTV was a clear leap in resolution, whereas those showing 1080p content on 4K HDTV's was better, but a noticeably lesser leap.

What was learned is that recording technology for 4K was still quite new, at least in North America.

Other things we learned - the bandwidth required to deliver 4K HDTV transmissions was significantly higher than 1080p as well. Roughly - 1 1080p HD channel needed approximately the same bandwidth as 5 SD channels to transmit. In the case of 4K HDTV, it takes about 5 times the bandwidth of 1080P.

The net impact - the transmission bandwidth for just one (1) 4K HDTV signal would be about the same as 25-28 SD channels from just a few years ago. This is a major capacity leap.

It is fair to assume that future DirecTV sat bandwidth will be mandatory to provide added bandwidth capacity.

In addition, the storage capacity of 4K HDTV content on some form of media is also exponentially greater. It also requires new recording cameras.

What all this means - we were told the higher probability is that the latest dual-sided high density 50 GB Blu Ray disks could now support 4K content, and would likely be the first source of distribution for 4K HDTV content. People who eventually have 4K HDTVs in their home in the next year or more will first use those 4K Blu Rays to show them off and use them.

Thereafter - probably 2,3, or maybe 4 years from now, mainstream 4K HDTV will be supported with broadcast content. The only thing that might impact or accelerate this timeline would be new content compression technology, which a few manufacturers are actually working on at this time.

We should learn more in a little over 3 weeks when several of us attend CES 2013 in January.


This won't happen for 15 years, if then.

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#70 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

This won't happen for 15 years, if then.

Put me down for $20 against that wager...I love easy money. :D
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#71 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

I don't know where you get your Statistics from but for a 55-60" needing a distance under 6' I strongly disagree.

I have a 55" and I am 8 to 10 feet away which is Perfect and anything closer woud allow you to see a Grainey Picture.

Typically it is 2 times the Viewing Size of the Display Device so a 60" would be 5 feet times 2 or 10 feet. :)


Just using what the chart said and I didn't create the chart. It claims THX and SMPTE as sources.

Here is another calculator that I have used in the past.

THX, SMPTE, and visual acuity all say small numbers. These are respected sources - they aren't going to claim recommended distances that are grainy.

Don't shoot the messenger. My gut also says it sounds fishy.

#72 OFFLINE   Rockaway1836

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

Just using what the chart said and I didn't create the chart. It claims THX and SMPTE as sources.

Here is another calculator that I have used in the past.

THX, SMPTE, and visual acuity all say small numbers. These are respected sources - they aren't going to claim recommended distances that are grainy.

Don't shoot the messenger. My gut also says it sounds fishy.


The calculatror shows 10 1/2 feet for an 80 inch set. That seems to be in line with the distance that I and many others owners of that size set sit .

#73 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

Don't shoot the messenger. My gut also says it sounds fishy.

You know they often say one's gut instincts are usually right....

The calculatror shows 10 1/2 feet for an 80 inch set. That seems to be in line with the distance that I and many others owners of that size set sit .

Really? The only people I know with screens 80" or larger have projectors. Screens of that size or larger are still quite new and rare in an HDTV. Wonder who/where all these "many other owners" would be...
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#74 OFFLINE   Rockaway1836

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:41 AM

You know they often say one's gut instincts are usually right....

Really? The only people I know with screens 80" or larger have projectors. Screens of that size or larger are still quite new and rare in an HDTV. Wonder who/where all these "many other owners" would be...


I know of at least one other member here that owns an 80 inch Sharp. The rest are found on the several 80 inch threads at AVS.

#75 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:49 AM

I know of at least one other member here that owns an 80 inch Sharp. The rest are found on the several 80 inch threads at AVS.

Pretty much as expected. Cool beans.

So back to topic...

In terms of anticipating a timeline for 4K HDTV (aka Ultra HD) - that specific question will be asked in 2 weeks at CES...and if any definitive information is presented...it will be shared.
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#76 OFFLINE   Rockaway1836

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 06:01 AM

Pretty much as expected. Cool beans.

So back to topic...

In terms of anticipating a timeline for 4K HDTV (aka Ultra HD) - that specific question will be asked in 2 weeks at CES...and if any definitive information is presented...it will be shared.


Can't wait to read all the reports from you guys !

I don't think anyone has posted this yet.

http://www.engadget....k-10-bit-video/

#77 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 06:08 AM

Can't wait to read all the reports from you guys !

I don't think anyone has posted this yet.

http://www.engadget....k-10-bit-video/

Yeah....we usually do some reporting from onsite each year. ;)

Neat linked info.

The part that soemtimes gets lost in the whole 4K HDTV discussion is the tech on the other side of the screen....the cameras, storage media, etc.

There's plenty going on with all that as well - more to seek and view at CES.
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#78 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

!rolling

Yeah....uh huh....right...

Uh huh....sure...

Next we'll hear that since that gem of info was something found on the Internet someplace , it has to be true. :rolleyes:


Yup...and the ISF mandates those as required for more than 2 years now.

Thanks for adding some real information. :up:

Bottom line...all that other bogus stuff about 9' viewing for an 84" display is way out of reality.


Better check your information - Do yourself a favor and spend sometime on @ the Minolta Booth at CES.

The Minolta CS200 is a ColorMeter which sold for over $10k (it may still). However, Colormeters have proven themselves problematic on the different types of displays out today.

The Minolta CS2000 or CS2000a Spectroradiometer (the later can produce 1nm resolution) at a cost of well over $30k is what is respected today - not the ~10 year old CS200 or ANY colormeter.

And THX or ISF has NEVER required a Colormeter AND a Spectroradiometer. As a Spectroradiometer will blow away a Colormeter, there is no need.

I don't own a spectroradiometer. I only have a SpectraCal C6 with CalMAN 5. Which ain't too shabby...


And a $700 Colormeter is still not as good as a Spectroradiometer costing so many multiples of that amount.....

The Minolta's are high-end and highly regarded.


Yes they are.

It's refreshing to read something from an informed source posting here.


Read above and do some homework.

A Colormeter expects to find a certain value at a certain point. It measures how far those points are off from what is expected.

That was fine when CRT was the known output. Once CFL, Laser, Plasma, LED, OLED et al with different light signatures started coming out, the light source was producing a different spectral output and the values were not where they were expected with a colormeter. That is why a Spectroradiometer is a must today.

Just because a Colormeter looks for data at about 20 points on the spectrum, today's displays spectrum do not produce the same values in that spectral area and thus the Colormeter is often looking at the spectral area wrong area.

A Spectroradiometer with a 1-3nm resolution is a must. The CS2000 and CS2000a have that. A colormeter does not.

Edited by SomeRandomIdiot, 25 December 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#79 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

Just using what the chart said and I didn't create the chart. It claims THX and SMPTE as sources.

Here is another calculator that I have used in the past.

THX, SMPTE, and visual acuity all say small numbers. These are respected sources - they aren't going to claim recommended distances that are grainy.

Don't shoot the messenger. My gut also says it sounds fishy.


No, the THX an SMPTE charts are correct and exactly what I was speaking of.

Any ISF or THX certified tech worth their salt would know about these.

They are exact specs for proper distance to screen size. While some may not personally like what the specs say, it is still the proper field of vision the images are shot and editted for.

However, it appears some think they know better than THX and SMPTE, which is laughable in and of itself.

#80 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:44 AM

They are exact specs for proper distance to screen size. While some may not personally like what the specs say, it is still the proper field of vision the images are shot and edited for.

The reality within the various posting banter and conflicting information is that in the end - there are no "exact specs" other than math computations - viewing is about the human interaction of visual presentations.

People's vision, hearing, and the environment (things like ambient light, brightness, contrast, color depth, screen reflection and angles, acoustics, etc.) all vary. Math can be used to compensate for variables...no doubt.

Why there may be preferred, recommended, and "in a perfect world that doesn't exist suggestions" for specifications...in the end..."your mileage may vary" is most appropriate.

Having significantly invested in 2 different certified sound and visual and audio engineers in the planning, design, implementation, configuration, and final "alignment and tuning" of a 6-figure THX-certified, rack-mounted 116" projection dedicated Home Theater, I appreciate and understand the value of these things better than most folks based upon real-world experience. Four (4) different high-end calibration devices were used to peak the video and audio. Both engineers, using different equipment at different times, agreed upon the final results. Thereafter, 2 adjustments were made - 1 audio and 1 video to suit viewer preferences.

All that said, while there is plenty of science in how the viewing experience can be optimized...personal taste (which may or may not "see or hear" things the same way) always trumps it in the end.

Circulating back to the topic at hand - 4K HDTV....if last year was any indication of what we'll see and hear from manufacturers in < 2 weeks at CES...there are some best practices, standards, and common traits already forming that will impact how it is delivered and viewed.

A number of us will be honing in on vendor booths to get the latest info on this topic - from advance indications, there will be more than 18 manufacturers representing 4K HDTV brands. Based on past years, there will likely be reports at DBSTalk about information learned onsite.

Season's Greetings.
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