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Philips commercial TVs


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5 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:39 AM

Philips commercial TVs

I am going to be installing a headend in a hotel which will combine analog DirecTV standard definition modulated video and digital broadcast off-air. This hotel uses about a hundred Philips model 42HF7945D, 42" flatscreen TVs.

The incumbent service provider is Lodgenet, and they have replaced the input terminal card/board with their own proprietary board that apparently combines Pro:Idiom decryption, channel tuning and PPV. They will be returning the boards they took out, but for now, I do not have one in hand to begin my experimentation with the programming of these TVs. I need to determine whether they can recognize 8VSB digital signals if they are frequency shifted to the cable STD frequency channel plan, but cannot test them without an input terminal card. If they can't, I will most likely transcode them to QAM.

But anyway, I am going through hell trying to get just one original input terminal card to experiment with. I contacted Philips commercial services directly, and they said they would attempt to get me one, but they never did, nor did they contact me to tell me their "effort" to do so had failed. Previously, I had discussed this model TV with the hotel's building engineer, who has worked as a bench technician, and he told me he had become exasperated by the unavailability of repair parts for these 42", six year old TVs, and that the largest TV repair company in this major metropolitan market will not service them because they cannot get parts either.

I called Philips back today and was told that they couldn't get me one single input terminal card. I asked them the name of a local dealer or distributor or even a large customer that I might get one from locally, but the service rep became combative and kept abruptly replying, "No", "No", and "No" to my every query.

I am amazed that this commercial TV manufacturer does NOT keep input terminal cards available for this model. I mean, input terminals can break when a person goes to move the TV without disconnecting the cable, or when a hamfisted person cross-threads the F-connector and then wrenches it down. That must happen somewhere at least every week. And when it does, they say "tough luck" to the customer and force him to replace the whole TV?

The only thing they can furnish me with is a master, programming remote (the one that looks like Gumby),
Posted Imagehttps://encrypted-tb...A-COJVzPV5qUow6Posted Image
but we already have one from another hotel that this privately owned, non-branded hotel group runs. I sure could use a clone box, or Smart Loader, but Philips says those are not available, and while Goggling the part number get me a number of "supplier". none of the suppliers I contact actually had one in hand. They all were just order takers who were going to attempt to arrange to have Philips drop ship one, which they apparently cannot do because Philips doesn't have an

Can anyone out there who has pulled their input terminal cards out of this TV or a similar one furnish me with one, and can anyone come up with a clone box I can buy or even rent/borrow? Its part number is 22AV1120/00. It is one of these: http://icecat.us/us/....ox-510214.html

Edited by AntAltMike, 22 December 2012 - 12:02 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:02 AM

Couple of the hotels where we do HD at has Philips TVs, unsure model but I know they are 37 so unsure if they are same series.

They had the same provider supplying SD content so cant speak to the Lodgenet removing the cards in this instance. Does that mean when they pull the card there will be no tuner? Is it not possible to just buy the cards from them instead of them pulling.

As to the no replacement parts thing get used to that and that is NOT just a Philips issue this is happening with ALL brands as the TVs get to the ancient ages of a few years for a flat panel. In fact Panasonic has some kind of issue right now and is barely shipping any boards which sucks more than usual because they have a hefty core charge on their boards for the privilege to order them.

For the cloning on the Philips TVs can you not use a regular old USB stick? There is a read/write option in the menu where you can clone the settings on the one you take the time to setup and from there program the rest. At this place they did about 4 sticks and had various employees do the programming across hotel.

What is really horrible on these sets is having to sit down with one of them and tediously program it with the master remote. I do remember on these sets the GM should have a list of all their serial numbers with a matching encryption code that you will have to put in for the purposes of decoding encrypted signals like pro:idiom. Possible that this has already been done but be aware of it. If memory serves you have to do that step to open up some of the service menus on the TV to do your programming. If you mess around too long in the menu like when you go to hand label channels you may have to put the code in again as it will time out.

The particular hotel I am thinking has been replacing their sets with LGs at this point when the Philips fail. This makes the most since anyway since pro:idiom is their deal and those sets can use their FMA device that blasts out the programming code all the time. Without FMA their sets you use their FMA software to build the channel map and tweak the TV settings that a guest does not have access to. Take time to build the channel map then save the file and show maintenance/GM how to load it into a TV when they get a new one. The newer LGs take a usb to 3.5mm pin cable not sure if proprietary as we get them from LG.

On the 8VSB/QAM part it has been my experience that a lot of models dont usually mention 8VSB in the specs but work just fine. Having said that QAM is really the standard you should probably use. It will be QAM when you decide to start sending HD content that is not locals. The Blonder Tongue AQT transcoders we have used have been pretty reliable so far, not cheap but it just plain works and they are easy to setup and then easy to troubleshoot during service.

#3 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

...They had the same provider supplying SD content so cant speak to the Lodgenet removing the cards in this instance. Does that mean when they pull the card there will be no tuner?


As I understand the tuning operation, the original channel tuner was in the card they removed, and their card has its own tuner and responds to their Lodgenet proprietary remote.

Is it not possible to just buy the cards from them instead of them pulling.


No, since it has their PPV processing capability in it.

For the cloning on the Philips TVs can you not use a regular old USB stick? There is a read/write option in the menu where you can clone the settings on the one you take the time to setup and from there program the rest.


While I hope so, I'm inclined to doubt it. These TVs are six years old, and for that matter, if one could clone with a stick, I don't see why anyone would even bother to design and build a cloning box, but because my time is precious right now, I won't be looking into whether I can use a USB stick to clone until I have enough pieces in hand to do a thorough investigation, and that includes having a tuner as well as 8VSB, QAM and analog signal sources. Right now, without an input card, I would have no channels to attempt to manage.

What is really horrible on these sets is having to sit down with one of them and tediously program it with the master remote. I do remember on these sets the GM should have a list of all their serial numbers with a matching encryption code that you will have to put in for the purposes of decoding encrypted signals like pro:idiom. Possible that this has already been done but be aware of it. If memory serves you have to do that step to open up some of the service menus on the TV to do your programming. If you mess around too long in the menu like when you go to hand label channels you may have to put the code in again as it will time out.


Someone just warned me about that, but we won't be enabling the imbedded Pro:Idiom because these old sets can't process MPEG4 and I have been told that all current production Pro:Idiom encrypted sources now use MPEG4, so for now, only the local, off-air channels will be HDTV and if they keep these TVs, they will have to choose and implement a set back box option.


The particular hotel I am thinking has been replacing their sets with LGs at this point when the Philips fail. This makes the most since anyway since pro:idiom is their deal and those sets can use their FMA device that blasts out the programming code all the time. Without FMA their sets you use their FMA software to build the channel map and tweak the TV settings that a guest does not have access to.


This hotel ownership is technically savvy and buys mostly LG TVs, but they only recently bought this hotel and the TVs came with it.

LGs can "digest" 8VSB when it is frequency shifted to cable standard channels whereas many TVs cannot, and it is also possible for an LG to be set to look for FCC UHF broadcast frequency channels for digital TV while using the Cable STD plan for the analogs. I'm told that to do the latter, one must know how to get to a "deep" screen, that requires entering a six digit code and then hitting menu a bunch of times. I'm told that the selections for setting the TV up that way are up around #101 and #102, but I haven't done it yet myself. The benefit of doing that is you can take all the UHF raw off the air with no signal processing equipment cost, since there is room for 68 analog channels beneath UHF (2-64, and 95-99).

Take time to build the channel map then save the file and show maintenance/GM how to load it into a TV when they get a new one. The newer LGs take a usb to 3.5mm pin cable not sure if proprietary as we get them from LG.


Fortunately, the maintenance staff at this hotel is pretty sharp, and they'll probably wind up showing me how to do that. :D

On the 8VSB/QAM part it has been my experience that a lot of models don't usually mention 8VSB in the specs but work just fine. Having said that QAM is really the standard you should probably use. It will be QAM when you decide to start sending HD content that is not locals. The Blonder Tongue AQT transcoders we have used have been pretty reliable so far, not cheap but it just plain works and they are easy to setup and then easy to troubleshoot during service.


My preferences are simply based on cost. Raw UHF is cheapest, primitively filtered UHF, using a NAS PFA-6600 or its discretely assembled equivalent, costs a little more, Blonder Tongue DHDCs cost more than that, and AQTs cost the most, but I just got a great price for something that supposedly converts 8 8VSBs into 8QAMs, so that may become my preferred architecture.

Edited by AntAltMike, 28 March 2014 - 03:10 PM.


#4 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

Now I see what you mean about shifting the 8vsb as in using up/down converters. Seems like unless you really had to save the money the smart move would be converting the channels at least that way or qam. I remember in analog sets that was in cable mode and you autoprogramed with uhf hooked up the channels would be like 50 chs away from their usual number like 18uhf=69cable, 36=87 and so on. So with a hotel set where you can "map" the channel to a virtual channel that could work just fine. Im sure that trick could still be pulled with a digital set too.

Definitely look at the usb option i am sure the sets i have worked with are from same era. If the site has the master remote you can just ask them via phone to look into the service menu. I seem to remember its on the first screen when menu is chosen (could be on a second screen though). Think it might be called clone and should be option to read from the set you are on to learn its settings and the other option to write the settings from the usb stick. Usb stick does not have to be proprietary.

Back to the tuner since you are using locals and they are not encrypted wont you not need a special card, or does them removing it take the F connector away? Whether ppv is there or not shouldnt matter. But i do know they like to take their ball and go home mentality they have.

Pro:idiom or not you will still have to use the security code for the model you sit down and program because parts of the setup menu are hidden until its unlocked. The manual will be nice here because the options to get to that screen are just not intuitive and deep in the menu. You will not have to worry about using the code for the other tvs that get cloned unless they were using encrypted signal.

Other than getting used to the FMA software setting up an LG is way less tedious. Whats even better is you can build it before you ever go to the site as long as you know what the channel map will be. With the optional and not cheap FMA device in the headend this can be configured remotely for changes but is really nice as it programs the new sets as they replace them automatically.

Now wait until you run across the older Panasonic TVs where you have to use their cloning box called enseo, yikes!

#5 OFFLINE   Floyd

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:39 AM

FYI, I found this warning in the LG commercial setup guide, so if you have a cloner, don't hook it up to an LG television that has a PPV card in it.

Caution: Do not connect a clone programmer to a PPV card installed in the Master or Target TVs, as this will damage the clone programmer and the PPV card.

Here's the FMA device that will allow you to program/clone all the TVs from the headend, or even remotely. I don't know if it works without the PPV card.
http://www.lg.com/us...ms/lg-FMA-LG101

Here's a link from the LG software site that includes The FTG software program that I think you may be able to use to configure a data set that can then be loaded onto a USB stick and then used to clone some of the LG commercial TVs. I haven't tried this yet, but it looks like it may only work with a pro-idiom capable TV that uses the .tlx format for the clone data? Maybe they have another program for non pro-idiom use?
http://www.lgsolutio...ndex.php?mode=2

Edited by Floyd, 23 December 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#6 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:27 AM

FYI, I found this warning in the LG commercial setup guide, so if you have a cloner, don't hook it up to an LG television that has a PPV card in it.

Caution: Do not connect a clone programmer to a PPV card installed in the Master or Target TVs, as this will damage the clone programmer and the PPV card.

Here's the FMA device that will allow you to program/clone all the TVs from the headend, or even remotely. I don't know if it works without the PPV card.
http://www.lg.com/us...ms/lg-FMA-LG101

Here's a link from the LG software site that includes The FTG software program that I think you may be able to use to configure a data set that can then be loaded onto a USB stick and then used to clone some of the LG commercial TVs. I haven't tried this yet, but it looks like it may only work with a pro-idiom capable TV that uses the .tlx format for the clone data? Maybe they have another program for non pro-idiom use?
http://www.lgsolutio...ndex.php?mode=2


The OP is programming Philips, but here is what I know on LG and FMA.

If not using a hardware FMA and just using the software you program the TVs via a serial cable. On the newer ones LG will supply you a cable that is usb to 1/8" plug (same as a headphone jack). On the older LG tvs you use a 9 pin serial cable that must be crossover. If you dont have a crossover cable you can get a crossover adapter at radio shack. If the LG has a pin jack that says CFG then this is where you hookup, otherwise its the rs232 style 9pin jack. And of course your laptop does not have a serial port so get yourself a usb to serial adapter...

With the hardware FMA you hook the output of it to your distribution system and it blasts the code out 24/7. When Lodgenet is on site sharing a system with a free to guest provider they usually take the lead with this side of things since it is their cards and they already have the device on site. Had experience in a 600+ hotel where they were charging them $X money per set because they only had the ability to program one or two at a time.

Newer FMA devices take it a little bit further and you can make it do like a startup page on the TV. You can have a screen advertising amenities or for local restaurants etc.. There is also a basic whether app and an optional channel guide.

The real nice aspect of the FMA is that it can update the lineup on all the TVs in the house instantly. Much nicer when you do a simple change like adding one channel to the lineup you dont have to go and touch every TV.




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