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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Transponder Maps: Domestic & DLA ~ Data 7/22/2015


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1235 replies to this topic

#126 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 06:17 PM

Beam OESTE still has tons of SD channels for PR, what I expect is for Directv to move those channels for Beam PR y then can use the free space for LATAM ....

 

But based on G3C's payload data filed with the FCC and gct's maps, the only channels I see as removable from Beam PR and the spectrum capable of reassignment to LA are some 13 SD ones on transponder 25, making for 16 transponders available for Beam Oeste instead of the current 15.

 

The three "wideband" (54 MHz) transponders which formally carried the HD channels on Beam PR are on a "North American" or "North American + Puerto Rico" beam making their spectrum available, but not for service in LA    
 

... Directv doesn't offers HD for the "Caribean". And yes it seams that all HD have been converted and But not all SD. BTW, I expect directv to keep using G3C for PR, remember there are a few channels that are common with the one in Latam.

 

OK, thanks for that clarification, but can you give some examples of these "few channels" common to both PR and LA which will cause some level of service into PR from the G3C bird to continue?

 

I thought once converted PR customers can no longer receive anything from G3C.


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#127 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

If I'm not mistaken.... Channels: 225, 226, 227, 734, to mention some...

What I meant about reallocating some channels, look at this: 161-178, 228, 242-262, 272, to mention some...those channels are exclusively for PR, the can move those channels for the Beam PR, freeing Some space for Latam. That is what I think they will do.

Another thing to think about is: the new satellite is also though to give service to PR once the G3C is sent to better life. Look at the footprint.

#128 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 06:32 PM

The three "wideband" (54 MHz) transponders

 

Ummm, perhaps real is 36 MHz ?

 

I don't recall seen such on a screen of SA. May be it could, but seems to me no one consumer's receiver could accept the value.



#129 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

If I'm not mistaken.... Channels: 225, 226, 227, 734, to mention some...

What I meant about reallocating some channels, look at this: 161-178, 228, 242-262, 272, to mention some...those channels are exclusively for PR, the can move those channels for the Beam PR, freeing Some space for Latam. That is what I think they will do.

 

Ah I see;

 

You're referring to freeing up spectrum on Beam Oeste. I thought you were referring to PR's former HD bandwidth along with the issue that gct's mapping info. for LA doesn't consistently show those channels as exclusive to PR, so I didn't notice that some channels were. In fact I actually thought all channels on Beam Oeste were available to everyone in LA and the Caribbean. :sure: 

 

The only thing is, it would be only SD bandwidth allocations opening up.    
 

.... Another thing to think about is: the new satellite is also though to give service to PR once the G3C is sent to better life. Look at the footprint.

 

Yeah ...

 

Only filing data for Intelsat 30 has been published so far and its payload data shows a lot more bandwidth for the successor to Beam Oeste. There are 2 sets of 16 24 MHz wide transponders on "Pan Regional" beams for a total of 32 covering all LA and the Caribbean down-linking between 11.45-11.7 GHz and 11.95-12.2 GHz..

 

These again though appear for SD channels only however.   


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#130 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:49 PM

If I'm not mistaken.... Channels: 225, 226, 227, 734, to mention some...

What I meant about reallocating some channels, look at this: 161-178, 228, 242-262, 272, to mention some...those channels are exclusively for PR, the can move those channels for the Beam PR, freeing Some space for Latam. That is what I think they will do.

Ah I see;

You're referring to freeing up spectrum on Beam Oeste. I thought you were referring to PR's former HD bandwidth along with the issue that gct's mapping info. for LA doesn't consistently show those channels as exclusive to PR, so I didn't notice that some channels were. In fact I actually thought all channels on Beam Oeste were available to everyone in LA and the Caribbean. :sure:

The only thing is, it would be only SD bandwidth allocations opening up.

.... Another thing to think about is: the new satellite is also though to give service to PR once the G3C is sent to better life. Look at the footprint.

Yeah ...

Only filing data for Intelsat 30 has been published so far and its payload data shows a lot more bandwidth for the successor to Beam Oeste. There are 2 sets of 16 24 MHz wide transponders on "Pan Regional" beams for a total of 32 covering all LA and the Caribbean down-linking between 11.45-11.7 GHz and 11.95-12.2 GHz..

These again though appear for SD channels only however.


That's correct!!!

#131 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

Ummm, perhaps real is 36 MHz ?

 

I don't recall seen such on a screen of SA. May be it could, but seems to me no one consumer's receiver could accept the value.

Unless the FCC filing data is wrong here, if you can find those 36 MHz transponders P. Smith, or can make any other sense of this data in this regard I'd more than appreciate it.  :)

 

The only transponders in the attached FCC tech. document for G3C that match the frequencies listed on LyngSat, can accept the symbol and code rate you published, and have the necessary geographical coverage are four 54 MHz wide transponders on a N.A.+ PR beam of which three I assume were used for Puerto Rican HD.

 

Also if you can reconcile how these transponders can be listed as linear polarization on downlink when circular is needed as is posted on LyngSat would be very appreciated as well.  

Attached Files


Edited by HoTat2, 09 June 2013 - 08:02 PM.

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#132 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:43 PM

54 = 2x27 MHz - could be it's aggregrated number? For combined H and V polarization ?

 

Perhaps it cannot reach NorCal ... but anyway, no one GLA tpn by combination of SR & /Modumlation is using 54 MHz, could be 36 MHz max  if SR close to30Msps or 24 MHz for lower SR

 

The PDF is old, perhaps initially proposed. but again current tuners/demod chips would not appreciate 54 MHz tpns


Edited by P Smith, 09 June 2013 - 11:49 PM.


#133 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:52 AM

54 = 2x27 MHz - could be it's aggregrated number? For combined H and V polarization ?

 

 

Hard to say for certain P. Smith;

 

All we have are the official FCC tech. document filings done when G3C was under the ownership of PanamSat (now under Intelsat) in the early 2000s, and as you can see from the attachment the transponders assigned to the N.A. or N.A. + P.R. beam are (on the downlink side) wideband 54 MHz with vertical polarization and a lesser size 27 MHz for the horizontal tps.

 

Now the smaller horiz. pol. 27 MHz transponders make sense and can be the ones used by the World Direct service. But the wide vert. pol. ones are where the question lies as to their actual bandwidth and polarization.   

 

.... Perhaps it cannot reach NorCal ... but anyway, no one GLA tpn by combination of SR & /Modumlation is using 54 MHz, could be 36 MHz max  if SR close to30Msps or 24 MHz for lower SR

 

 

But can't it just be a case of a 36 MHz wide signal spectrum sent down the middle of a 54 MHz wide transponder? IOW, approx. 9 MHz on either band tp. edge is unused?

 

Like with the Spaceways a 36 MHz wide signal spectrum within a 62.5 MHz wide transponder size.

 

​Certainly not an efficient way of doing business, but nevertheless possible 

  

.... The PDF is old, perhaps initially proposed. but again current tuners/demod chips would not appreciate 54 MHz tpns

 

 

Possibly;

 

Though if true I can't imagine the FCC being happy about such outdated info. still on file without updates. But perhaps it slipped through the cracks. 


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#134 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

That's correct!!!

 

Also of interesting note;

 

It appears a new DLA LNB will be needed, to receive HD service for Intelsat 30/31 which can accommodate 12 new 36 MHz wide transponders on regional South American  beams in 10.95-11.2 GHz band.

Attached Files


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#135 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:51 AM

Damn ! New LNBF.

 

Just to get G3C low freq tpns you'll need special circular LNBF, now this one ... it's like European universal, but South American  fashion: circular.



#136 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:30 PM

Also of interesting note;

It appears a new DLA LNB will be needed, to receive HD service for Intelsat 30/31 which can accommodate 12 new 36 MHz wide transponders on regional South American beams in 10.95-11.2 GHz band.


yes, I already have it installed. :) about two months ago.

#137 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:27 PM

yes, I already have it installed. :) about two months ago.

 

They're distributing those new LNBFs down there already in anticipation of Intelsat 30/31?

 

Covering 10.95-11.2 GHz, and 11.450-12.2 GHz?

 

Is it just the LNBF which is swapped out or a new dish assembly as well?

 

Note: Oh, and BTW, congratulations on getting the Sundance channel down there;

 

Though I think like with us here on DIRECTV USA, its only going to be in SD ... :grin: 

 

http://www.hollywood...sundance-565575


Edited by HoTat2, 10 June 2013 - 04:48 PM.

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#138 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:37 PM

They're distributing those new LNBFs down there already in anticipation of Intelsat 30/31?

Covering 10.95-11.2 GHz, and 11.450-12.2 GHz?

Is it just the LNBF which is swapped out or a new dish assembly as well?

Note: Oh, and BTW, congratulations on getting the Sundance channel down there;

Though I think like with us here on DIRECTV USA, its only going to be in SD ... :grin:

http://www.hollywood...sundance-565575



Yes, I believe I will be on SD also.

They just swapped the LNBF, they have been doing so, since December.

#139 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:47 PM

Yes, I believe I will be on SD also.

They just swapped the LNBF, they have been doing so, since December.

If you could give the LNBF's model exactly. Will it support a range 11 GHz ?


Edited by P Smith, 11 June 2013 - 08:47 PM.


#140 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:30 PM

If you could give the LNBF's model exactly. Will it support a range 11 GHz ?

Based on the Ku band frequency plan chart for Intelsat 30 I posted back in my post #134 P. Smith, it would have to support most of 11 GHz at least  ...

 

Transponders will occupy from 10.95-11.2 GHz and 11.45-12.2 GHz.

 

A 1.25 GHz span with a 250 MHz gap between 11.2 and 11.45 GHz. 


Edited by HoTat2, 11 June 2013 - 09:33 PM.

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#141 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 03:47 AM

ImageUploadedByDBSTalk1371030427.906165.jpg

#142 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:07 AM

thank you for the page



#143 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

 

Thanks;

 

Found additional techie stuff and photos for this new DLA LNBF on an unofficial blog site for DIRECTV Uruguay;    

 

http://dtvuruguay.bl...ectv-latam.html

 

You can try Google translate or some other to convert to English, but the grammatical errors in the translation process makes for difficult reading many times. At least for Google Translate which I used.

 

I do wonder though since this new LNB will use IF down block signals from 450-700MHz when Intelsat 30/31 are operational if a type of Latin American "Low Band Converter" for that band which accomplishes what the BBC does for DIRECTV USA or a LA version of the H/HR23 receiver if not another altogether new model with wideband tuners chips like the H/HR23 is going to be necessary?

 

As, at least in the U.S., DIRECTV receiver tuners capable of operating in (non-SWiM) legacy mode can't receive frequencies much below 900 MHz excepting the H/HR23.     


Edited by HoTat2, 12 June 2013 - 02:30 PM.

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#144 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:57 PM

Doctor J Comments for the 6/12/13 Data:

 

NETWORK NAME    CHANNEL  LIL  NOTES_0                   NOTES_1

 

HD LIL Channel New Active

   14     KTFF     61    72   A3 Fresno 61 KTFF UMas    UniMas from KTFFDT-TV, 61, Fresno, CA

 

Channels Removed

   14   WRBJ HD    34    94   A3 Jackson 34 WRBJ IND    Independent from WRBJDT-TV, 34, Jackson, MS

   3    WRBJ SD    34    94   Jackson (MS) WRBJ 34 IND  Independent from WRBJ-TV, 34, Jackson, MS

 


Edited by Gary Toma, 12 June 2013 - 02:00 PM.



#145 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:07 PM

 


....  You're referring to freeing up spectrum on Beam Oeste. I thought you were referring to PR's former HD bandwidth along with the issue that gct's mapping info. for LA doesn't consistently show those channels as exclusive to PR, so I didn't notice that some channels were. In fact I actually thought all channels on Beam Oeste were available to everyone in LA and the Caribbean.

 

 

We have had some confusion regarding which LatinAm markets receive which Beams.

 

I put an updated, more explicit, Latin Network Decoder together to clarify some of these questions.  This post is a bit delayed because I sent the new Decoder off to Latin area folks for validation before posting it here.  This updated version will be included in forthcoming LatinAm TPN Maps.

 

Your comment "...I actually thought all channels on Beam Oeste were available to everyone in LA and the Caribbean "  appears to be fully accurate.

 

I specifically asked confirmation that:

 

1.    Only the El Caribe islands area and PR itself can receive the Beam PR channels.  These two areas get Beam PR and Beam Oeste, but do not receive Beam Sur.

2.    All the other areas shown (except El Caribe and PR) do receive both Beam Sur and Beam Oeste, but not Beam PR.

3.    All the other areas shown (except El Caribe and PR) do receive all indicated transponders of Beam Sur and Beam Oeste.

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

EDIT: 6/22/13:  The Network Decoder attachment has been deleted.  Please see the most current Latin TPN Map Excel for the most up to date version of the Decoder.


Edited by Gary Toma, 22 June 2013 - 09:37 PM.



#146 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:11 AM

We have had some confusion regarding which LatinAm markets receive which Beams.

 

I put an updated, more explicit, Latin Network Decoder together to clarify some of these questions.  This post is a bit delayed because I sent the new Decoder off to Latin area folks for validation before posting it here.  This updated version will be included in forthcoming LatinAm TPN Maps.

 

Your comment "...I actually thought all channels on Beam Oeste were available to everyone in LA and the Caribbean "  appears to be fully accurate.

 

I specifically asked confirmation that:

 

1.    Only the El Caribe islands area and PR itself can receive the Beam PR channels.  These two areas get Beam PR and Beam Oeste, but do not receive Beam Sur.

2.    All the other areas shown (except El Caribe and PR) do receive both Beam Sur and Beam Oeste, but not Beam PR.

3.    All the other areas shown (except El Caribe and PR) do receive all indicated transponders of Beam Sur and Beam Oeste.

 

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the more comprehensive DLA map Gary, and for the info. from your contact(s) down there.

 

One point and a question though;

 

First I think what egakagoc2xi is saying is that while all "transponders" assigned to Beam Oeste may be available to all countries in LA, Puerto Rico, and EL Caribe, not all channels carried by those transponders (which are ~12-14 SD ones/per) are available to all the countries. Some are exclusive to individual countries. Therefore if the "channels" (not "transponders") on Beam Oeste along with the transfer of tp. 25 which were exclusive to PR and the EL Caribe are eventually removed having now been migrated to satellites on DIRECTV USA, that will create additional (likely SD) bandwidth for more channels on Beam Oeste for the other countries in LA.

 

Also, did or can your LA contact(s) confirm egakagoc2xi's claim that the HD portion of Beam PR (Tps. 2, 5, and 11) have indeed been turned off?         


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#147 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:00 PM

You are correct - the specific channels available vary by country and also vary dependent upon the programming package the viewer has subscribed to.  The ability to receive a transponder does not imply that all or any channels on that transponder will be viewable.

 

In the case of the Beam PR HD channels:  The Latin TPN Map of 4/3/13, had 14 HD Channels as a part of Beam PR.  They broke down as:

 

5 HD Channels on TPN 2

5 HD Channels on TPN 5

4 HD Channels on TPN 11

 

Our next Latin TPN Map, 6/5/13, did not include any of those 14 HD Channels.  Presently, TPNs 2, 5 and 11 all show as unused.  Although 6 of those departed HD Channels appear in Beam Sur as different channel numbers, 8 of those HD Channels do not appear on G3C at all.  Beam Sur is not available in PR, and of course Beam Oeste has no HD channels at all.

 

All those departed HD Channels and many more are available in Puerto Rico as a part of the new US Domestic Package Service offering which began operation on 12/17/12.

 

Said another way: if you are watching HD in PR today:

you are doing so with your new LHR-24 Receiver and your SL-5 dish;

you are receiving HD Channels from SW1 @103W and SW2 @99W

you are receiving all your SONIC channels as MPEG4 from SW1 and SW2

you are receiving SD Channels from SW1 @103W, SW2 @99W and D5 @110W

you are receiving all your Channels as if you are Domestic Local-Into-Local Market  #213

 

I will appreciate any input and correction from folks in the Puerto Rico Market....
:)




#148 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

I'm suppose to be the LA contact :(

I haven't been able to check this week, but what Gary tells you is pretty accurate.

#149 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

Hey egakagoc2xi;

 

On these abbreviations for the South American regional uplink centers or satellite teleports mentioned in the ku band frequency plan for Intelsat 30 (and possibly 31), I assume stand for;

 

VBC - Venezuelan Broadcast Center?

CoBC - Colombian Broadcast Center?

ABC - Argentine Broadcast Center?

BBC - ????

 

(Not including the "CBC," of course which I know is for DIRECTV's "California Broadcast Center" here in Long Beach, CA. in the SW CONUS)

 

 

Have any knowledge on this, in particular what uplink center the "BBC" is? 


Edited by HoTat2, 16 June 2013 - 05:14 PM.

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#150 OFFLINE   egakagoc2xi

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:46 PM

It should be Brasil, some channels are uploaded from there




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