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Guest Message by DevFuse

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* * * * * 5 votes

Transponder Maps: Domestic & DLA ~ Data Refresh 4/15/2015


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843 replies to this topic

#826 OFFLINE   AngryManMLS

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:14 PM

Doctor J Analysis of the 4/8/2015 Domestic Data

 

CONUS:

No significant changes

 

LOCAL INTO LOCAL

MKT 125 Net 636, Minneapolis, MN

One *Test HD LIL Channel to Active

11       KAWB             22       20                   D11 @99W    99S     235     1040  125

A3 Minneapolis 22 KAWB PBS                    PBS from KAWBDT-TV, 22, Minneapolis, MN

 

Now that we got this in HD will DirecTV be able to add in the subchannels from say KSTC 5 (ie: MeTV) or are we still lacking the capacity to add them in for LIL?



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#827 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:18 PM

DirecTV only adds subchannels if they're affiliated with a major network, with an exception for some PBS/public stations as well as Alaska and Hawaii where both satellite providers have to offer subchannels.
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#828 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 05:48 PM

Thanks Gary;

But don't you mean "the PR channels are from 99ca" in this portion of your post?



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Yes, - of course.

Thanks for noticing my error - I will correct the post.




#829 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:38 PM

What no Wilma99s? ;)

I wonder if they are lacking a firmware update to show additional ss screens like many in the U.S.

Indirectly, this suggestion could indicate that ultimately if the SWs are both fully retired from servicing PR and the programming shifted to spotbeam redirects from D14 and the upcoming D15, then like Hawaii which also gets its Ka nationals from spotbeam redirects of CONUS xpndrs, but has the same SS screens as all the other DIRECTV USA subs., PR would get the same SS screens for 99 and 103, with 110 as their version of 101 of course.

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#830 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 10:38 PM

I don't see them retiring both Spaceways from PR duty, since other than the CONUS redirect none of the satellites has a PR spot beam. If there are two transponders worth of PR local programming, they'd have to waste two CONUS transponders to deliver it.


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#831 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 01:32 AM

I don't see them retiring both Spaceways from PR duty, since other than the CONUS redirect none of the satellites has a PR spot beam. If there are two transponders worth of PR local programming, they'd have to waste two CONUS transponders to deliver it.

No that's not correct;

D14 also has two LiL xpndrs, B23-1 and B24-1, for PR's locally originated programming.

The CONUS+ redirects to PR bypass those and only share the spotbeam antennas, B23 and B24, provided for those two xpndrs, not the xpndrs themselves.

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#832 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:30 AM

No that's not correct;

D14 also has two LiL xpndrs, B23-1 and B24-1, for PR's locally originated programming.

The CONUS+ redirects to PR bypass those and only share the spotbeam antennas, B23 and B24, provided for those two xpndrs, not the xpndrs themselves.

 

I stand corrected, I wasn't aware of that.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#833 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 12:23 PM

Doctor J Analysis of the 4/15/2015 Domestic Data

 

CONUS

Masters standby channels removed

A few FOX_LINK updates in CONUS and LIL records

 

LOCAL INTO LOCAL

MKT 161 NET 672  Rochester, NY

One new HD LIL Channel in *Test

11       *CW               14       18       D11 @99W    *Test: Local-Into-Local Record           223     1060  161

A3 Rochester, NY                             14 WHAMDT2 CW

 

D14 CHANGES

48 Puerto Rico channels provided by D14

51 channels in *Test for D14

 

TRANSITIONS

SW2 no longer providing any Puerto Rico service

SW2 now providing 158 Domestic LIL channels

SW1 now providing 275 Domestic LIL channels

 

 

The 'Channel Count" Excel in Post #3 of this thread has been updated to reflect the 4/15/2015 data.




#834 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 01:47 PM

I get the feeling they will be using the space ways in very strategic manners to fill gaps in a few markets and use frequencies that won't affect the other satelites.
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#835 OFFLINE   tomspeer46

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 02:59 PM

I get the feeling they will be using the space ways in very strategic manners to fill gaps in a few markets and use frequencies that won't affect the other satelites.

I agree.  They are already doing some things that I did not think they could.  I have determined that my local channels here in Eastern NC (Greenville, NC DMA) are coming from SW1, on a 36 MHz channel that fits where D15's TPN 8 is expected to be, without overlapping the D15 xpndrs above or below it.  It is labelled as TPN 4 and shows up on my signal strength screen in that position on the 103S screen.


Edited by tomspeer46, 16 April 2015 - 03:06 PM.

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#836 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 03:54 PM

I agree.  They are already doing some things that I did not think they could.  I have determined that my local channels here in Eastern NC (Greenville, NC DMA) are coming from SW1, on a 36 MHz channel that fits where D15's TPN 8 is expected to be, without overlapping the D15 xpndrs above or below it.  It is labelled as TPN 4 and shows up on my signal strength screen in that position on the 103S screen.

 

I wonder why they always had the odd layout for the Spaceway tpns previously? Maybe the Spaceway can only generate a limited number of spot beams in total, so there was no point in optimizing the layout?

 

The SW1 and SW2 docs talk about being able to generate up to 24 spot beams per transponder, or a single CONUS beam, and various combinations in between as you widen the beams. There is nothing about a limit in the total number of beams across all tpns, but there probably is such a limit.


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#837 OFFLINE   tomspeer46

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 04:12 PM

As I dug into this using the FCC docs, and what I could gather from other sources available, I learned that I had to distinguish between "transponder", a physical transmitter in the satellite, identified by the net number and TID number, versus TPN number.  I am still figuring out the SW satellites, but I believe that the way DirecTV uses them, one transponder feeds one spotbeam.   The TPN number appears to be informational only.  The receiver does not use it to tune to a selected channel.   The only use, that I can figure out, of the TPN number is to tell the techs, and tech savvy customers, where to look on their Signal Strength displays to see the signal level for a particular set of channels.  They are logically organized by the transmit channel numbers in the FCC licenses for the satellites, but there are anomalies.   


Edited by tomspeer46, 16 April 2015 - 04:29 PM.

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#838 OFFLINE   tomspeer46

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 04:28 PM

I wonder why they always had the odd layout for the Spaceway tpns previously? Maybe the Spaceway can only generate a limited number of spot beams in total, so there was no point in optimizing the layout?

 

As I read the available information, the SW birds are configured, in the Ka-hi spectrum, as contiguous 62.5 Mhz "subchannels".  No single modulation (transponder output) can span between subchannels.  So only one of DirecTV's 30 Megasymbol/sec, 36 Mhz wide transponder outputs can fit into each "subchannel".  But at least in the 5th and 6th "subchannel" they are able to position it where they want in the spectrum.  There may be a limit of how many transponders can do that simultaneously (speculation), 


Edited by tomspeer46, 16 April 2015 - 04:30 PM.

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#839 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 05:13 PM

As I dug into this using the FCC docs, and what I could gather from other sources available, I learned that I had to distinguish between "transponder", a physical transmitter in the satellite, identified by the net number and TID number, versus TPN number. I am still figuring out the SW satellites, but I believe that the way DirecTV uses them, one transponder feeds one spotbeam. The TPN number appears to be informational only. The receiver does not use it to tune to a selected channel. The only use, that I can figure out, of the TPN number is to tell the techs, and tech savvy customers, where to look on their Signal Strength displays to see the signal level for a particular set of channels. They are logically organized by the transmit channel numbers in the FCC licenses for the satellites, but there are anomalies.

Correct;

As I said previously, the xpndr numbering scheme chosen by the satellite provider for display in the SS level screens or other tech. reference is arbitrary and most convenient when it matches the numbering in the FCC docs. But they don't have to match.

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#840 OFFLINE   tomspeer46

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 05:19 PM

Correct;

As I said previously, the xpndr numbering scheme chosen by the satellite provider for display in the SS level screens or other tech. reference is arbitrary and most convenient when it matches the numbering in the FCC docs. But they don't have to match.

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Yes, thank you for helping me understand that.  Your previous post was part of my revelation, which I confirmed by other means.


Edited by tomspeer46, 16 April 2015 - 05:19 PM.

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#841 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 05:35 PM

As I read the available information, the SW birds are configured, in the Ka-hi spectrum, as contiguous 62.5 Mhz "subchannels". No single modulation (transponder output) can span between subchannels. So only one of DirecTV's 30 Megasymbol/sec, 36 Mhz wide transponder outputs can fit into each "subchannel". But at least in the 5th and 6th "subchannel" they are able to position it where they want in the spectrum. There may be a limit of how many transponders can do that simultaneously (speculation),

Yeah...

I think the peculiar selection of 62.5 MHz xpndr spacing for the SWs is a holdover from the design of their primary "processor" mode of operation for satellite internet.

"Hopping" Ka-hi spotbeams, of 500 MHz total bandwidth. Each beam in turn sub-divided into 16 (using both polarities) 62.5 MHz wide sub-bands, each sub-band communicating with customer satellite ground terminals in TDMA mode for data transmission.

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Edited by HoTat2, 16 April 2015 - 05:40 PM.

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#842 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 01:33 AM

Don't forget, when these where designed and being built, it wast for dtv, it was for Internet Useage. So dtv adapted there systems to use them. ,they even tried the one conus beam and it didn't work quite right for dtv, so they where relegated to spot beam duty only. I have a feeling the spacing and freq would have been altered and significantly different if Hughes had realized they where going to end up with dtv sooner in the process when they where building them. But I don't think they could change any of that by the time they found out that was going to happen. But these birds have always been a little different because of this....

Edited by inkahauts, 17 April 2015 - 01:35 AM.


#843 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:32 PM

For those of you who have asked -- no Latin information is being held back from you.  DLA-1, much like D14, has suddenly become very quiet.

 

To quote egakagoc2xi in Colombia, today,   "...It has been almost a month and everything is just quiet; there have been no changes.  We could create a full scan to completely update the TPN Map Excel, but it would be a boring report, much like the data of 3/24/15."




#844 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 10:07 PM

For those of you who have asked -- no Latin information is being held back from you. DLA-1, much like D14, has suddenly become very quiet.

To quote egakagoc2xi in Colombia, today, "...It has been almost a month and everything is just quiet; there have been no changes. We could create a full scan to completely update the TPN Map Excel, but it would be a boring report, much like the data of 3/24/15."

My only curiosity about DLA-1 right now is with the exception of four "SD LNB test channels" as they're so titled, why the new Ku-lo band (10.95-11.2 GHz) xpndrs for Networks Sur and Norte are being eschewed?

I wonder if this is due to the transition of all subs. to the new LNB, WNC SF6-LA, not being complete yet?

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