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Guest Message by DevFuse

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* * * * * 1 votes

Transponder Maps: Domestic & LatinAm ~ Data Refresh 7/12/2014


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458 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

yes, the DTV "invention" is limiting OTA station for each DMA; it's hardcoded in system tables and AM-21 do obey the tables regardless of real OTA signals;
dish took opposite approach - their OTA dongle [USB receiver] are free of any limit - you can get any station what you can get locally


Of course, the exception is the HR34. It will scan and show any available channel. For the channels not the the guide data (as shown in the OTA tables), the HR34 will simply say "Regular Programming" and won't have any detailed info.

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#22 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

yes, the DTV "invention" is limiting OTA station for each DMA; it's hardcoded in system tables and AM-21 do obey the tables regardless of real OTA signals;
dish took opposite approach - their OTA dongle [USB receiver] are free of any limit - you can get any station what you can get locally


Was thinking about getting a AM-21. Are you saying that DTV is messing with OTA on the receiver ? :confused: Is ther a way to find out if any channels in Central PA are effected

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#23 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

not exactly "messing" but limiting the set of local channel by DTV discretion - check your DMA in gct's thread/table
exclude HR34 (perhaps new HR44)

#24 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

.
.
NEW CONUS CHANNELS IN TEST – AS OF FRIDAY, 1/11/13
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
15|*COOKHD|232|Cooking Channel HD|Cooking Channel, dedicated to viewers hungry for more about food...
15|*EACTHD|541|Encore Action HD|Action is the best place to find great action movies featuring ...
15|*H2HD|271|H2 HD|H2 offers a deeper perspective on history from all around the globe. ...
15|*HLNHD|204|CNN Headline News HD|HLN updates viewers constantly, 24 hours a day...
15|*IDHD|285|Investigation Discovery HD|Investigation Discovery continues its heritage of providing...
15|*IFCHD|559|IFC HD|IFC is the ideal destination for indie comedy fans. From mandatory cult...
15|*LMNHD|253|Lifetime Movie Channel HD|Lifetime Movie Network provides movies dedicated to women...
15|*TVLDHD|304|TV Land HD|This 24-hour network by the creators of Nick at Nite offers all-time...
.
.

|No New CONUS Channels Active
.
.

|No New DMA In Test

|No New DMA Active
.
.
NEW LIL CHANNELS IN TEST
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
11|*KMBH HD|60|A3 Harlingen 60 KMBH PBS|PBS from KMBHDT-TV, 60, Harlingen, TX
11|*FOX HD|10|A3 Juneau 10 KJUDDT2 FOX|FOX from KJUDDT2-TV, 10, Juneau, AK
.
.
NEW LIL CHANNELS ACTIVE
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
14|KGMC HD|43|A3 Fresno 43 KGMC MFX|MFX from KGMCDT-TV, 43, Fresno, CA
.
.


|No LIL Channels Removed
.
.
Keys in the Excel TPN Map:


  • Channel Names in the Excel TPN Map which begin with an asterisk (*) are in TEST status
  • Channels shaded blue in the Excel use MPEG4 compression.
    While all HD channels are MPEG4, SD channels may also be in MPEG4.

Edited by gct, 09 March 2013 - 12:18 AM.



#25 OFFLINE   RMichals

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

The info for the 95 west conus transponders is outdated again, there have been several moves.

#26 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

I take the time to assemble this post to help save many flat foreheads and point out some significant changes underway.

Historically, we have had several years now where we have been able to say pretty safely that an MPEG4 channel was an HD channel and an MPEG2 channel was an SD channel. And for the most part those rules were true. Sure there were two or three HD channels still broadcast in MPEG2. And yes, there were a few SD channels broadcast with MPEG4 compression. But except for a handful of these oddball situations, the MPEG4 = HD rule held true.

The beginning transformation of the Puerto Rico market into a ‘DMA-Like’ entity begun on 12/17/12, to be served as a part of the U.S. Domestic market has accelerated the transition that was already heading our way. In this new LIL Network #724/Market #213, we have HD Channels in MPEG4 compression. But we also have SD Channels provided in MPEG4; and unlike the U.S. market, even the Sonic audio-only channels are provided in MPEG4.

Using the bandwidth savings of MPEG4 makes perfect sense for Directv, in a situation such as this where concern is not required for legacy MPEG2-only receivers.

The wrinkle is that we are steadily losing the ability to distinguish HD channels from SD channels. Although we can tell that a given channel is in MPEG4 compression and fully capable of carrying an HD payload, we cannot ascertain what programming it actually IS carrying, be it 480I, 720P, 1080I or 1080P. Perhaps soon – if it is carrying 2160P, the new 4K resolution.


#27 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:44 AM

Thanks gct,

Is there any way to grab the bitrate of an encrypted stream and tell HD by that?

I would imagine a PID that is 5-7mbps would be HD.
One that is 1-3mbps would be SD.

No other guide data flags to parse? I thought there was... let me look back on those threads here.

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My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

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#28 OFFLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:47 AM

We can always tell by tuning to the channel with native on and see what the output is, right? For example, NASA Ch. 346 is an MPEG4 channel but outputs 480i to my display.

This method is tedious, but with enough volunteers, it could be done to check out those channels.

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#29 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

The US national channels are easy to know without even checking as most of them have HD in the call sign and as of now very little MPEG4 content is SD outside of the P/I channels (NASA, Baby First, Free Speech TV, Golden Eagle, God TV, etc).

It's the Puerto Rican spot beams and MPEG4 locals that are hard to know about without first hand accounts.

#30 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

We can always tell by tuning to the channel with native on and see what the output is, right? For example, NASA Ch. 346 is an MPEG4 channel but outputs 480i to my display.

This method is tedious, but with enough volunteers, it could be done to check out those channels.


I had asked some folks in Puerto Rico to use the Resolution Lamp Indicator method. As you suggested, it is the last resort. That's where I learned that their Sonic audio channels turn on the 1080I lamp. I also learned that at this point we do not know how to detect the payload resolution from the channel data.

We may be at the end of the road already. Example - just because a channel has 'HD' in its name doesn't mean that at a given time, it is not broadcasting an old movie in 480I. We perhaps are now facing having to label channels as "HD Capable", admitting that from hour to hour, the payload resolution may vary.


#31 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

I had asked some folks in Puerto Rico to use the Resolution Lamp Indicator method. As you suggested, it is the last resort. That's where I learned that their Sonic audio channels turn on the 1080I lamp.

You should ask them to test it further and make sure native is on and all possible resolutions are enabled. Since they're audio only I found that with Native on it just keeps the resolution of the last channel you watched since the actual on screen background is generated by the receiver. i.e. if I was watching an SD channel and turned to one of them it would stay 480i, if I was watching ABC HD it would stay 720p, if I was watching NBC HD it would stay 1080i.

#32 OFFLINE   Luispr14

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

I've tested the Sonic audio channels in Puerto Rico after reading the post of
KyL 416 after watching channels in 480p,720p and 1080i and the resolution always goes to 1080(tested in my 2 HR 24-200 and on my H 25-500)

#33 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

practically speaking, the part of audio-only channels what carry background pictures (not a text) could be any resolution and any mode; the VPID stream would be miniscule to do that as the pictures changing once per song

#34 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

The info for the 95 west conus transponders is outdated again, there have been several moves.


doctor j' is hoping he will be able to capture the 95W data this weekend. Changes are so infrequent that he doesn't get it every week. As soon as we get the data, I will incorporate it and re-publish the 1/16 TPN Map.


#35 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

I've tested the Sonic audio channels in Puerto Rico after reading the post of
KyL 416 after watching channels in 480p,720p and 1080i and the resolution always goes to 1080(tested in my 2 HR 24-200 and on my H 25-500)

I notice you said 480p, is Puerto Rico getting SD channels in 480p or did you mean 480i?

#36 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

I notice you said 480p, is Puerto Rico getting SD channels in 480p or did you mean 480i?


Unless he's got the same problem I have on one of my HDTVs where the HD-DVR (HR34 in this case) is either incorrectly reading the TV set's EDID/DDC information over the HDMI connection or the information is wrongly programmed into set or something where the DVR claims the set will not accept 480i over HDMI so will not let me select it in the resolution settings. :rolleyes:

Only 480p and up.

The set actually does accept 480i over HDMI of course.

#37 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

We may be at the end of the road already. Example - just because a channel has 'HD' in its name doesn't mean that at a given time, it is not broadcasting an old movie in 480I. We perhaps are now facing having to label channels as "HD Capable", admitting that from hour to hour, the payload resolution may vary.

Should we read that as a channel changing it's output resolution hour by hour? I would expect each channel to choose a resolution (such as 720p or 1080i) and convert everything to their chosen resolution ... and not change resolutions on the fly.

We have had the issue of SD upconverted to HD since the beginning of HD channels ... fortunately HD hours have been increasing and HD for a few hours a day only channels are becoming more rare.

#38 OFFLINE   RMichals

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:15 AM

doctor j' is hoping he will be able to capture the 95W data this weekend. Changes are so infrequent that he doesn't get it every week. As soon as we get the data, I will incorporate it and re-publish the 1/16 TPN Map.


Great, checked my ss and noticed ch 2134 moved from tp 1 to tp 7.

#39 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

This is an update of the 1/16/13 Observations post.
The update adds the Lima, OH DMA which just went
into *TEST on 1/18/13!

.
.
NEW CONUS CHANNELS IN TEST – AS OF FRIDAY, 1/11/13
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
15|*COOKHD|232|Cooking Channel HD|Cooking Channel, dedicated to viewers hungry for more about food...
15|*EACTHD|541|Encore Action HD|Action is the best place to find great action movies...
15|*H2HD|271|H2 HD|H2 offers a deeper perspective on history from all around the globe...
15|*HLNHD|204|CNN Headline News HD|HLN updates viewers constantly, 24 hours a day...
15|*IDHD|285|Investigation Discovery HD|Investigation Discovery continues its heritage...
15|*IFCHD|559|IFC HD|IFC is the ideal destination for indie comedy fans. From cult movies ...
15|*LMNHD|253|Lifetime Movie Channel HD|Lifetime Movie Network, movies dedicated to women...
15|*TVLDHD|304|TV Land HD|This 24-hour network by the creators of Nick at Nite offers all-time...
.
.
|No New CONUS Channels Active
.
.
NEW DMA IN TEST – AS OF FRIDAY, 1/18/13
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
|*WOHL|35|SAP|A3 Lima 35 WOHL ABC
|*CBS|36|SAP|A3 Lima 36 WOHLDT CBS
|*FOX|9|SAP|A3 Lima 09 WLIODT FOX
|*WLIO|8|SAP|A3 Lima 08 WLIO NBC
|*WBGU|27|SAP|A3 Lima 27 WBGU PBS
|*WTLW|44||A3 Lima 44 WTLW IND
.
.

|No New DMA Active
.
.
NEW LIL CHANNELS IN TEST
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
11|*KMBH HD|60|A3 Harlingen 60 KMBH PBS|PBS from KMBHDT-TV, 60, Harlingen, TX
11|*FOX HD|10|A3 Juneau 10 KJUDDT2 FOX|FOX from KJUDDT2-TV, 10, Juneau, AK
.
.
NEW LIL CHANNELS ACTIVE
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
14|KGMC HD|43|A3 Fresno 43 KGMC MFX|MFX from KGMCDT-TV, 43, Fresno, CA
.
.


|No LIL Channels Removed
.
.
Keys in the Excel TPN Map:

  • Channel Names in the Excel TPN Map which begin with an asterisk (*) are in TEST status
  • Channels shaded blue in the Excel use MPEG4 compression.
    While all HD channels are MPEG4, SD channels may also be in MPEG4.

Edited by gct, 09 March 2013 - 12:16 AM.



#40 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

The complete U.S. Domestic TPN Map has been updated.

Data for 95W is updated as of Saturday, 1/19/13.
Data for all other U.S. satellites is updated as of Monday, 1/21/13.

Since its 12/17/12 in service date, the new Puerto Rico service from U.S. Domestic Resources has been shown as a part of the LIL MARKET LIST tab in the Excel. Puerto Rico is treated as if it were a DMA in that it is assigned Market #213 and Network #724. However, Puerto Rico is an MSA, not a DMA. DMA numbers are not available. The Puerto Rico viewer data is therefore not intermingled with the U.S. Domestic Nielsen data.

A review of the LIL data now shows that 54 DMAs are provided with 100% MPEG4 locals. The new Puerto Rico service is predominantly MPEG4, except for some 26 SD channels provided by D5 @110W.





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