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Intel to Offer A La Cart?


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458 replies to this topic

#251 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

There is collusion between the content distributors and the service providers.

There are only a few service providers in a given area. They package and price similarly. Which is driven by similar demands of the content distributors.


The only "demand" of the content providers is that, in most cases, they want to be in the most homes possible. Yes, that makes the offerings of most providers all pretty much the same. But that's not because they are "colluding" any more than Samsung, HTC and Nokia are colluding when they all offer pretty much the same phones through multiple carriers. They all want the widest market possible. What is so odd about that? It's just good business.

I can buy HBO (or any movie channel) to add to an existing package but there is absolutely ZERO service providers that will sell me nothing but HBO on their pipe. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE to HBO. I can't even buy it and stream it directly from HBO (because their carriers won't allow it). HBO will sell some content that is a few years old via DVD/BluRay.


Who says it is the carriers that prevent it? Remember that right now, streaming access to the premium movie channels is at no additional cost...HBO is simply absorbing the (substantial) cost of maintaining streaming servers. Therefore, they want to insure that you are already paying them for access to their catalog. As soon as HBO thinks they could make as much money selling direct streaming only subscriptions via the internet they will do so.

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#252 ONLINE   wmb

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

Their time is coming. They think they are safe. So did Microsoft.


Actually, I think Microsoft, with the Xbox and their ecosystem (windows live, Xbox Live/Music sky drive, Skype, office 365, etc) is probably the furthest along in making this happen.

Cable/Sat only expanded the OTA model. Most of us older folk are well trained to use that model. If something a la carte is to take over, its going to be disruptive change. Basically, the channel paradigm from OTA/cable is going to have to be replaced. This won't happen easily, at least for produced programming.

IP streamed sports, news/current events, instructional videos (food network recipes, DIY), seem to work now.

We are also seeing DVR/video on demand effecting linear channels.

Not sure how this will play out, but I do believe it will play out.

#253 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

There is collusion between the content distributors and the service providers.


Which is false and would be prohibited.
DTV = Digital Television

#254 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

It's not that there isn't any money in it. It's because there's MORE money in it under the current system. And everyone agrees it's not going to happen anytime soon. I'm not sure why you think otherwise. That isn't what's being debated. The only thing being debated is whether "it" would work in an a la carte system, however unrealistically we got there.


Not quite. It is pointless to talk about a system that can't get started. Part of working is starting.
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#255 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:09 PM

We are now going in circles. ;)

I already told you your conclusions are based on false assumptions.


But you get to assume that things magically switch over to a new system? I think some of us are discussing the real world not some world were we assume a la carte magically happens.
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#256 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

Sort of off topic, but do you think they should get rid of the sports leagues' antitrust exemption?


The only league that has anti trust exemption is baseball.

Real world. Real facts.

The NFL actually LOST a major anti trust case to the USFL but the jury messed up the award so it wound up being only $3.

Every time football, basketball or hockey goes into a work stoppage, the unions decertify so they can file anti trust against the league.

Anti trust is NOT the problem.
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#257 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

One example would be to become more efficient in all aspects of the business. Find ways to do things cheaper. Get more out of a dollar. These things happen all the time in all businesses. The ones who can't do this go out of business because someone else can.


This reminds me of the manager of a friend who one time asked her to schedule her innovations and breakthroughs.

Yes. Cheapen art. Because it is a widget.

Sigh.
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#258 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:16 PM

A la carte on C-Band did succeed. You keep pushing this falsehood which simply isn't true.


No. It failed. You keep maintaining it succeeded but everything went bundled.
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#259 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:34 PM

I'm sure many will point out how different the following comparison is. Look at it with an open mind and at a macro level and you will see MANY similarities.

If large bundles were the obvious way to do business then most business today would be that way. It's not. TV is not a lot different than a supermarket.
  • We have 3 supermarkets within a block of each other
  • They are all part of huge chains that have massive fixed costs in real estate, transportation, and people
  • They carry nearly identical selection of products
  • They all price similarly
  • They, and all their suppliers and product creators, are still in business so there is profit to be made
  • There are premium quality products available at higher cost (organic)
Not perfect (some producers don't make enough money; some products are unhealthy; etc) but overall probably the best system in the world.

Broadly speaking it's no different than TV. The supermarkets are cable, sat a/b, telco. The product are shows or a bundle of shows (channel) [a box of eggs].

Unlike TV today, everything is a la cart (small bundles of multiple units is still considered an item) and prices reflect real competition not only between stores but within stores.

One doesn't have to buy products at the supermarket. It is possible to grow your own and live completely independent of them.

Imagine this:
  • Entering the store requires one buy bread, milk, eggs, etc. Because everybody needs them.
  • Buying one Nestle product requires buying every Nestle product
  • Can't buy a steak if you haven't purchased apples, oranges, ice cream, and pizza
  • Once you've picked a store you can't go to the other stores until you pay a fee or wait a period of time; and then after you switch you can't come back without a fee and wait period
Could go on and on.

Prove to me that there is anything fundamentally different about TV. At the root of all of it is the cost of labor.

Entertainment is a product that is consumed.

#260 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:44 PM

Not really.


Ala carte failed on C-band. I had it, then bundles, then nearly single provider bundle. It was so much easier and generally cheaper.

Then I moved and picked up DIRECTV. (They finally had NFL Sunday Ticket.)

Ala carte failed, it was way too big of a hassle.

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#261 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:48 PM

And what happened with Microsoft? They still bundle Internet Explorer, which is used as the standard browser by over 80% of all PC users. Virtually no other options exist for word processing, spreadsheet and presentation graphics. Yeah, those lawsuits did a lot of good. :rolleyes:


In a word, Apple.

Name a similar alternative to TV today.

Excuse me, but movie channels ARE bundled. You can't buy JUST HBO East from DirecTV, you have to take the whole HBO bundle.


When I say HBO I mean HBO bundle. I'm fine with small specific bundles like that. When I think a la cart I think the ability pick and choose mini-bundles like that.

If you're a sports fan, you can't just buy ESPN, you have to pay for AMC, TMC and FXM as well. You may not believe it, but there ARE lots of people who would be quite happy buying ONLY sports specific channels...all of them are providing additional revenue to AMC, TNT, and all the other channels in the respective tiers.

Trust me, MTV Networks doesn't care if AMC Networks' channels are in the same bundle they are...they just care about getting to as many households as possible. They want to be in the most POPULAR tier...period.


No loss. If they can't make it on their own then suffer like any other business.

#262 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

Unless the seller gets into antitrust territory. It's collusion to maintain a de facto monopoly which exercises rampant tying. It's just as illegal here as it was for Microsoft.



I just don't agree that sports feeds money to other content. By that reasoning movie channels contribute to sports content and everyone would have bundled movie channels. Why is a la cart ok for some channels and not others?

If sports are a big $ chunk then yes, put all the sports in a mini-bundle.



It isn't far off at these prices.

Hulu/Netflix and most others don't meet my requirements as they are not full HD quality. The only one I've seen that is full HD is Vudu. There is no good OTA/Vudu DVR available yet.

I'm probably going to eventually go to OTA and Vudu only.

It would like to keep some of the other stuff we watch but it's a question of value. That garbage doesn't add up to the high costs of sat or cable.


Current channel distribution is not a monopoly at any level, except perhaps one. Syfy channel is only provided by one provider. You could say they have a monopoly on their content--just like you could say Nestle is the only one to make Nestle chocolate.

But there are several people making chocolate. And there are several people making content (with a lot of overlap.)

So channels price their content as bundles (not a monopoly yet) and sell their bundle at roughly the same price to every distributor. Still not a monopoly and not collusion.

Then the distributors have to distribute the content to everyone. Just as in your supermarket example, the costs run about the same (in large number aggregates.) You'll find that some areas have less expensive cable costs and others have much higher--because of the market area. No collusion is necessary to explain this.

No monopoly, no collusion. Just normal market factors.

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Tom

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#263 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:58 PM

In a word, Apple.

Name a similar alternative to TV today.



When I say HBO I mean HBO bundle. I'm fine with small specific bundles like that. When I think a la cart I think the ability pick and choose mini-bundles like that.



No loss. If they can't make it on their own then suffer like any other business.


You have to pay for the overhead to supply the HBO Bundle. When you walk into the store, each item pays for a part of the store, the transportation, the storage, and the shelf the item uses.

HBO is not priced in quanta that can pay the transmission overhead. Supermarkets know that each trip you'll buy different things and overtime you'll pay for the overhead. Satellite and Cable are based on a model that have fixed costs bringing content to you whether you use it or not. So when you use any, you need to pay for the overhead.

Then you can add extras on top. Completely different purchase model.

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#264 ONLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:14 PM

No monopoly, no collusion. Just normal market factors.

(Tom R said)....

Agreed. And the supermarket analogy just doesn't hold water; I ran it up a flagpole and no one saluted; it's a salty dog tale (not tail) and while it's not all wet, it has too many exceptions to work. :D
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#265 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

When I think a la cart I think the ability pick and choose mini-bundles like that.


I don't know why...when that is NOT a la carte.
DTV = Digital Television

#266 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:54 PM

The only league that has anti trust exemption is baseball.

Real world. Real facts.

The NFL actually LOST a major anti trust case to the USFL but the jury messed up the award so it wound up being only $3.

Every time football, basketball or hockey goes into a work stoppage, the unions decertify so they can file anti trust against the league.

Anti trust is NOT the problem.


The NFL does have an anti-trust exemption. It covers baseball, football, basketball and hockey broadcasts. It's a well-known exemption.

#267 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

Ala carte failed on C-band. I had it, then bundles, then nearly single provider bundle. It was so much easier and generally cheaper.

Then I moved and picked up DIRECTV. (They finally had NFL Sunday Ticket.)

Ala carte failed, it was way too big of a hassle.

Peace,
Tom


I had it too. Worked great for me. I subscribed to a basic package and then augmented it with a few select channels which I couldn't get unless I subscribed to a much larger package. Saved me money.

#268 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:56 PM

The NFL does have an anti-trust exemption. It covers baseball, football, basketball and hockey broadcasts. It's a well-known exemption.


http://www.washingto...0011304394.html
DTV = Digital Television

#269 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

This reminds me of the manager of a friend who one time asked her to schedule her innovations and breakthroughs.

Yes. Cheapen art. Because it is a widget.

Sigh.


Yep. We've magically reached an age of no more innovation. ;)

#270 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

http://www.washingto...0011304394.html


http://www.law.corne...t/15/chapter-32

http://www.politico...._exemption.html

#271 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:21 PM

http://www.law.corne...t/15/chapter-32

http://www.politico...._exemption.html


Let's be more specific then. Only MLB has a full antitrust exemption. Other leagues only have a limited exemption that applies to broadcasting.

In your initial post, you did not specify that. You did however in a later post, to be fair.
DTV = Digital Television

#272 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

Let's be more specific then. Only MLB has a full antitrust exemption. Other leagues only have a limited exemption that applies to broadcasting.


Someone stated the NFL doesn't have an antitrust exemption. That's incorrect. And we are talking about broadcasting so no need to be more specific. He was wrong, period. Real world. Real facts.

#273 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:30 PM

Someone stated the NFL doesn't have an antitrust exemption. That's incorrect. And we are talking about broadcasting so no need to be more specific. He was wrong, period. Real world. Real facts.


They do not have a full exemption. They have a limited and narrow partial exemption. It's not as clear cut as you wish to portray it as. Regardless, it's OT anyway (as you mentioned) and really has nothing to so with the discussion.
DTV = Digital Television

#274 OFFLINE   Araxen

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

If the networks don't offer as much money then the NFL would have no choice but to accept less money. What would happen if during the next round of TV contract negotiations all networks offer less money? The answer is that the NFL would accept the highest offer even if it was less than the current deal.

And before you say "But the networks won't offer less.", I know that it won't happen anytime soon. I'm just saying that IF they did the NFL would have to accept less money, and they would.


Eventually it will hit a point where the price increases isn't sustainable anymore. That time is coming very soon. People are getting sick of paying sky high cable/sat bills. The poor Internet infrastructure in this country is the only keeping the cable/sat tv industry from becoming a dying breed like the Newspaper and the music industry.
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#275 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:28 AM

I don't know why...when that is NOT a la carte.


Redefining the language too :nono2:

Merriam-Webster: a la carte:

according to a menu or list that prices items separately

Merriam-Webster: item:

a distinct part in an enumeration, account, or series

I recently purchased a box in a supermarket that contained multiple slices of gyro meat, multiple pitas, and tzatziki sauce. According to your thinking it's not an item and therefore I'm not buying it a la carte.




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