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Intel to Offer A La Cart?


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458 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   Tubaman-Z

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

That's cool, but what if i don't want to do it that way? What if i prefer.... Headline News or TNT? You forcing your preferences on me is as ridiculous as me telling you that you need to watch CNN instead of listening to the radio. Care to decide what I'm having for dinner tonight as well?

And BTW - according to unixguru, broadcast is dead, so you might want to find a podcast or something.


I never meant to imply that you should be limited to my preferences, merely that there are options and stating what I choose to do. I don't think that I gave any direction to anyone on what they should do. I poked around a bit and admittedly was not able to find an audio stream of HLN, but I am currently listening to CNN via TuneIn. Thanks for the (indirect) suggestion. I was unaware that TNT had news.

Given the amount of money that OTA has very recently invested in the digital transition I don't agree with unixguru that broadcast is dead.

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#122 OFFLINE   Tubaman-Z

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:45 PM

Not true. Sports are neither DVR proof nor do they have to be watched live. Many of us watch on delay, recording it and starting to watch an hour or more into it to avoid yakking taking head pregame crap and commercials and halftime/intermissions. I watch almost all the sports I really care about that way.


+1

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#123 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Not true. Sports are neither DVR proof nor do they have to be watched live. Many of us watch on delay, recording it and starting to watch an hour or more into it to avoid yakking taking head pregame crap and commercials and halftime/intermissions. I watch almost all the sports I really care about that way.


I think you'll find that you are the exception and not the rule. There are many people who have no issue with or even prefer to watch sports on a delay - my father is one of them - but you'll find many more people who prefer to watch the game live. And any a la carte, on demand, streaming solution needs to have a way that (up to) millions of people can stream a game live in HD - and Unix's system did/does not address that. And much like Tuba, you are basically saying "I'm ok with delayed viewing, and it works for me, so you should be ok with it as well".

Personally - with smart phones and various other forms of media - i find it very difficult to not know the outcome of a sports event I'm interested in. And it takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me knowing the outcome. I would not care to rely on a system where delayed viewing is the norm. You want the buy in of millions of mainstream sports fans, you need a solution that allows us to watch whatever we want at no more than what I'm currently paying (or what I'm paying in whatever year this future takes place in), on whatever device i choose, and whenever we want (whether that's LIVE or whether that's on demand at a later time). T

Edited by tulanejosh, 11 January 2013 - 02:43 PM.


#124 OFFLINE   FLWingNut

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

I think you'll find that you are the exception and not the rule. There are many people who have no issue with or even prefer to watch sports on a delay - my father is one of them - but you'll find many more people who prefer to watch the game live. And any a la carte, on demand, streaming solution needs to have a way that (up to) millions of people can stream a game live in HD - and Unix's system did/does not address that. And much like Tuba, you are basically saying "I'm ok with delayed viewing, and it works for me, so you should be ok with it as well".

Personally - with smart phones and various other forms of media - i find it very difficult to not know the outcome of a sports event I'm interested in. And it takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me knowing the outcome. I would not care to rely on a system where delayed viewing is the norm. You want the buy in of millions of mainstream sports fans, you need a solution that allows us to watch whatever we want at no more than what I'm currently paying (or what I'm paying in whatever year this future takes place in), on whatever device i choose, and whenever we want (whether that's LIVE or whether that's on demand at a later time). T


That's not what I'm saying at all. I happen to agree that on-demand type distribution is not a great business model at this time, and I respect those who chose to watch sports live. My only comment was to the poster who claimed sports are "DVR-proof," when they are no such thing. For me and for many others, we can avoid knowing the score for a few hours and it's worth the extra effort to avoid commercials, intermissions and pregame blather. I know I'm in the minority and that's fine. To each their own.

#125 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

Alright fair enough. How about I change it to DVR proof for many people?

And DVR proof is an SR term. It refers to the fact that sports are one of the remaining programs that people don't DVR and still command high ad dollars because networks and advertisers know people Are watching live.

#126 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

Sure. they tried. Couldn't make enough money to make them abandon the existing model. Ther'es no overwhelming need or demand for this, and it's not proving to be all that profitable. Businesses need both of those things to shift paradigms. All you have now is a small number or people kavetching yet still paying for the current model.


I also find it interesting that you point to the internet as the pipe. I find a great potential for hypocrasy there. On one hand - you want to pay for only what you consume when it comes to video distribution, but how many Internet video a la carte advocates would apply that same pricing model to their data consumption?

And Sirius XM is extremely successful. It's got over 20MM subscribers, which is comparable to Netflix. it's also more profitable, while delivering slightly less revenue. I bring up Netflix because it's the largest most prominent player in the cord cutting a la carte on demand movement. You've shown no data to support your assertion that broadcast is dying.

Your model is far too complicated, and requires too much planning and pre-work to watch television. It might work for you, but it's not going to work the the legions of average people that just want to watch Jay Leno for 30 minutes before falling asleep. Or what about when i just want something on in the background - call it the news - that i don't have to pay close attention to.

And it certainly won't work for Sports, which are DVR proof and have to be watched live.


People are increasingly unhappy with the cost of the current model. If that continues - and real alternatives become available...

I measure dying by looking at the future based on trends. Growth in broadcast has been slowing for some time, is sputtering now with some quarters in decline, and will eventually move towards only declines. It's the kind of thing that causes future investment in the model to pause more and more. The industry can continue to spin it all they like.

That is not to say that all broadcasting will cease in the near future. The transition will happen but it won't be as fast as music was.

Does anyone doubt that OTA has been in decline for some time? Sure, there are still significant numbers of people using it. They drove many away with the forced hardware upgrade during the transition to digital. I suspect the biggest value of OTA now, to the broadcasters, is that it requires no extra investment to supply the area cable systems with their feed.

Of course there are many people that still watch live stuff. But what is the trend? Given the industry (and these forums) it seems that many people have moved to DVRs and only watch live for certain kinds of programs like sports. As others have said - Sports isn't DVR proof. Being a few minutes behind live has significant value. If absolute live is important then people shouldn't be using satellite since it's delayed several seconds behind OTA. :D

Trend is not in favor of broadcast.

As for data costs... aren't most the complaints about a la carte about wireless? Never gotten anywhere close to the wired threshold in our house. But if my data volume and bandwidth needs rise I will gladly pay more for the service. I can buy a lot of data capacity for what satellite costs. You think my local data provider will have any complaints taking my money and upgrading their pipes? I happen to use cable for data - to them they are just stealing a DTV customer and they won't care if I get programming via traditional cable or over the internet.

#127 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:07 PM

Still not a single shred of concrete data to back up your assertions.

#128 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

When a product had reached saturation, it is not possible to trend up. Growth by its very nature slows.

By trends, electric power delivery to households is on the wane because they aren't adding as many as they did years ago.
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#129 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:48 AM

Still not a single shred of concrete data to back up your assertions.


Google?

2 seconds shows this from almost a year ago: Young People Are Watching, but Less Often on TV.

#130 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

When a product had reached saturation, it is not possible to trend up. Growth by its very nature slows.

By trends, electric power delivery to households is on the wane because they aren't adding as many as they did years ago.


I see little relationship to this industry. Power is a great anti-example. Total monopoly. Tied to population. Evolution of consumption devices reduces demand. Yet it's still 100% a la carte - you pay, to the penny, for exactly what you use. Ain't regulation a bi...

A business person with a saturated market that is a near monopoly is going to continue to push to increase revenues. Raise prices, and in this industry, increase ads (more channels and over programs). They will continue to do that until they are losing more than they are gaining. We are well into that trend.

#131 OFFLINE   HinterXGames

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:29 AM

I don't see Al la Carte ever happening, simply because I don't think Networks will ever allow it and they control the pricing/structure, because they control the content. TV comapnies have to through the same bundle woes with networks as customers. DTV could tell Disney they only want their main Disney channel and Disney would say no, to get it you have to take A, B, C, E and D.

#132 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

A la carte won't happen because it doesn't work and it hasn't work. People who claim to want it, don't understand what impact it would have.
DTV = Digital Television

#133 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:40 AM

People who claim a la carte can't work don't understand that industries evolve and business models can change over time.

There's a reason why the programmers fight tooth and nail against a la carte. And it isn't because they're looking out for the consumer. ;)

#134 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

People who claim a la carte can't work don't understand that industries evolve and business models can change over time.

There's a reason why the programmers fight tooth and nail against a la carte. And it isn't because they're looking out for the consumer. ;)


^^^^Example A^^^^

It would drastically reduce channels, dramatically drive up cost, and gut revenues for production.
DTV = Digital Television

#135 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

I don't see Al la Carte ever happening, simply because I don't think Networks will ever allow it and they control the pricing/structure, because they control the content.


They will certainly fight it to the death.

What is content? Who creates it? Does it have to be owned by broadcast networks? How many networks have their own production studio?

I believe most content is created by independent production studios and then sold to networks.

My wife recently told me that the series Hunted, which is on Cinemax (and BBC), was being dropped by BBC but that Cinemax was going to continue it. Looking at the detail of that link shows there are 3 production companies - one of them is BBC. Cinemax is not one of them.

Dexter, Game of Thrones, True Blood, Strike Back, Homeland, Fringe, Grimm, NCIS all have multiple production companies. I stopped looking for more but I haven't found a single program that is produced only by a production studio owned by a distributor.

It's no different than music artists vs record labels.

A viable distribution alternative will have no problem getting content.

#136 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

It would drastically reduce channels, dramatically drive up cost, and gut revenues for production.


Music industry:

  • drastically reduce songs - nope
  • dramatically drive up cost - nope
  • gut revenues for production - reduced, maybe
Classic FUD.

#137 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:17 AM

Music industry:


[*]drastically reduce songs - nope
[*]dramatically drive up cost - nope
[*]gut revenues for production - reduced, maybe

Classic FUD.


Completely different industry and distribution model. [mod edit, inappropriate content removed]

Edited by Tom Robertson, 12 January 2013 - 01:16 PM.

DTV = Digital Television

#138 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

People who claim a la carte can't work don't understand that industries evolve and business models can change over time.

There's a reason why the programmers fight tooth and nail against a la carte. And it isn't because they're looking out for the consumer. ;)


The reason is money.

If a-la-carte could make them MORE money, it would work. But would consumers really want to pay MORE money to have LESS channels?
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#139 OFFLINE   Tubaman-Z

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

Interesting, and related article (albeit from 2010): http://www.mediapost...l#axzz2HnFxxeRF

Quote from the article:

"In 2008, the last year for which Nielsen reported the data, the average U.S. household had 130.1 TV channels available to it, but on average, "tuned" only 17.8 of them, according to Nielsen's definition of channel tuning."

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#140 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

Google?

2 seconds shows this from almost a year ago: Young People Are Watching, but Less Often on TV.


What young people do today has a way of changing when they have jobs and kids. Predicting trends based of what 16 - 24 year olds do right this second is silly. When I was that age I watched very little tv - I was out doing things. And I wasn't alone in that. By that articles rationale TV should have died off when people of my generation gained a greater degree of social control. But it didn't die - because people change their behaviors as they get older.

Edited by tulanejosh, 12 January 2013 - 02:44 PM.





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