Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Major problem with 24-500s


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

Mike Greer should get a kick out of this!

After finally getting the NR a week or so ago on all my 24s (got it on my 20-700s a month or so ago) all the 24-500s on one of my two clouds went completely berserk. The 24-500s on the other cloud were normal.

By berserk, I mean that when I went to anything Guide related or into the System, a press of the up or down key didn't just go up or down one increment, they went all the way down and all the way back up again. The Guide would do the same thing. The front panels worked correctly, but any signal from the remotes would set them off.

I kinda figured it was the SWM on that cloud that was causing the problem and sent out a PM to VOS detailing what I was seeing.

Got a quick answer and followed his instructions, which were to pull all the plugs on the HRs on that SWM and disconnect the power coax on the SWM, effectively leaving me with one functioning cloud. Then, after about an hour or so, I started reconnecting everything, did the SWM16 first and then started plugging in the HRs (had to pull the plugs on two 20-700s, too and a couple 24-100s that were working correctly while I was having all the problems with the 24-500s) one by one. Fixed!...but for how long? I'm gonna assume it was a random glitch in the SWM.

Then, after all the HRs on that cloud were working, I decided to calm down and watch a program on a 24-500. After watching the program I deleted it and then deleted a lot of episodes of a program that nobody was interested in. That took what seemed like an extraordinary amount of time for a 24-500. While I was wondering about that, I changed over to recordings of Dexter, 53 episodes. As soon as I hit the Select button on the remote to start an episode I had partially watched, the whole 53 episodes deleted.

Not a loss, I quickly went to On Demand and downloaded the last two seasons and am watching them now. The 24-500 that did that unwanted deleting seems to have stabilized. The two clouds have melded and everything is back to normal now.

The really odd part is that only the 24-500s on the one cloud were affected (or infected). My 20-700s and 24-100s had no similar problems at all.

Mike, when you read this, I sure hope you enjoy it... :lol:

And, as usual, my thanx to VOS.

Rich

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

Mike Greer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,612 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah
Joined: Jan 20, 2004

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

Nice! :nono: Sorry about the trouble and welcome to the club!

That's even crazier than my trouble.

Hopefully all will be wonderful now. Hopefully in 10 days they won't lose it again!

Misery does love company but you didn't have go this route just for little old me!:D

#3 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

Nice! :nono: Sorry about the trouble and welcome to the club!

That's even crazier than my trouble.

Hopefully all will be wonderful now. Hopefully in 10 days they won't lose it again!

Misery does love company but you didn't have go this route just for little old me!:D


Actually, Mike, you were the second person I thought of when the problems began. Kept muttering to myself, "And he thinks he's got problems".... :lol:

With my luck it will happen again. And I'll have to make one of those dreaded calls to the PP, then get transferred to Retention because the CSRs at the PP don't know what a SWM is, then get transferred to the CMG because the good folks at Retention know the best place to send someone like me is the CMG, where knowledge abounds (mostly).

Rich

#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,755 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

This really had nothing to do with the SWiM.
What you described is within the remote and receiver.
The SWiM only has to do with the SAT signal supply.
A.K.A VOS

#5 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:50 PM

This really had nothing to do with the SWiM.
What you described is within the remote and receiver.
The SWiM only has to do with the SAT signal supply.


OK, but four 24-500s doing the same thing and my other 2 on the other cloud not doing it? I don't get it. Could it have been the NR? In any event, what you told me to do seems to have fixed the problem. And why not the 2 HR24-100s and the 2 HR20-700s?

Rich

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,755 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

OK, but four 24-500s doing the same thing and my other 2 on the other cloud not doing it? I don't get it. Could it have been the NR? In any event, what you told me to do seems to have fixed the problem. And why not the 2 HR24-100s and the 2 HR20-700s?

Rich

What you PM'd me didn't really make a lot of sense. By this I mean it didn't point to a cause and effect that was traceable.

"Taking down" the whole SWiM, was a "shotgun approach" to get a new baseline.

Your post here about what I call a run-away guide is something I've seen once before, but it might have been a couple/few years. It might even have been on my HR24-500, as I've had it a long time. :shrug:

If the front panel functioned correctly, but the remote inputs didn't, this would point to the circuits of the remote and the counterparts in the receiver having some problem.

Was this merely cleared by powering down for an extended time? :shrug:

I think the only thing to do at this point is to keep an eye on it.
"Of course" I'd be careful/cautious of deleting recordings for a while too.
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

What you PM'd me didn't really make a lot of sense. By this I mean it didn't point to a cause and effect that was traceable.


Right. Never saw anything like that before.

"Taking down" the whole SWiM, was a "shotgun approach" to get a new baseline.


By the time I PM'd you, I'd done everything I could think of with one 24-500. I reset it a couple times in different ways, stuff like that. What really bothered me was the 24-100 above it was working correctly. Then, having problems with the other 24-500s on that cloud crossed my mind. I tried all the HRs on the cloud and found only the other three 24-500s on that cloud were doing the same, and no 20-700s or the other 24-100 were having any problems. When I found the four 24-500s all doing the same thing, I really got worried and PM'd you.

Your post here about what I call a run-away guide is something I've seen once before, but it might have been a couple/few years. It might even have been on my HR24-500, as I've had it a long time. :shrug:


Happened to me on one 24-500 when they were relatively new. That one really went nuts. But four? Mind-boggling. The shotgun approach worked, might never know why, that's the problem with that approach. I don't care why, I just care that the 24-500s are working properly again.

If the front panel functioned correctly, but the remote inputs didn't, this would point to the circuits of the remote and the counterparts in the receiver having some problem.


That was the conclusion I came to before I found out all four of the 24-500s on that cloud were doing the same thing while two 24-500s on the other cloud were working perfectly. And no 24-100s or 20-700s were doing what the 24-500s were doing.

Was this merely cleared by powering down for an extended time? :shrug:


I had shut down the first one for a good half hour, then rebooted and it made no difference then.

I think the only thing to do at this point is to keep an eye on it.
"Of course" I'd be careful/cautious of deleting recordings for a while too.


I've been using that 24-500 and it hasn't done anything like that again. That's another thing I've never seen. That was really a day to remember. Thought the "Curse of Mike Greer" had me.... :lol:

Still, if I hadn't PM'd you, I'd probably have done what I did, but it would have taken me longer to know that was the correct approach. I know Mr. Smith would have loved to dissect the whole setup to figure out exactly what happened, but I don't care as long as it's working.

Rich

#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,755 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

We'd need to look at some fairly bizarre things to find a connection.

Could these have all been on the same AC leg/phase and had some strange thing on the AC get into them?

All being one model might point to something like this, and a weakness of their PS filtering.

"The old" HR20-700s would do strange things due to AC "strangeness".

I remember when...

It was Christmas and at 10 PM one "went south" everyday.
It turned out the Christmas lights came on then, and two strings didn't cause a problem, but the third did. It didn't matter which two, but adding the third would always do it.

/bizarre
:lol:
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

We'd need to look at some fairly bizarre things to find a connection.

Could these have all been on the same AC leg/phase and had some strange thing on the AC get into them?


No/yes/I don't know, I have 7 HRs on that SWM and the HRs are on different circuits. Could be coming off the same leg of the 220 coming into the house, but the CB panel is new and the transformer feeding the 5 houses on my court is only a couple years old. I don't really see what could have caused this electrically, and believe me, I've given that a lot of thought.

All being one model might point to something like this, and a weakness of their PS filtering.


Might be, the two 24-500s on the other cloud are on a totally separate circuit, but I can't swear to whether they get the juice from the same hot wire. That's usually not something we worry about unless we are directed to use one side of the line coming in. And that happened back in the '70s, when we built several huge computers for processes. The EEs demanded that we keep certain parts on distinct hot leads. When we pressed them about this (made the jobs a lot harder) they told us the electro-magnetic fields "might" have an adverse effect on the computers if we didn't follow their instructions. I had my doubts then and have them now. Musicians are/were picky about the way the hot lines might cause problems if we used both when setting up equipment. At the time this made more sense to me than what the EEs were feeding us about the computers. I dunno, so many different opinions. 220 to a home is a pretty stable means of energizing home wiring.

"The old" HR20-700s would do strange things due to AC "strangeness".

I remember when...

It was Christmas and at 10 PM one "went south" everyday.
It turned out the Christmas lights came on then, and two strings didn't cause a problem, but the third did. It didn't matter which two, but adding the third would always do it.


Probably because you were overloading the circuit. Damn light strings are a PITA, nobody ever bothers to consider what having that many tiny lights on one circuit can do.

All the 24-500s that went bonkers were on UPS devices. Not expensive devices, but we hadn't lost power since Sandy hit.

/bizarre
:lol:


Yeah, bizarre is a good word for what I went thru and saw that day. I kinda doubt that we'll ever know. I always used the quickest method of trouble shooting, doing several things at once and my boss was always angry when he asked me how I fixed something. Always told him the truth, if I didn't know, I told him just that. Got into some funny arguments with him about that, but I really had no idea what part of what I had done had solved the problem. Unless it happens again, I think this is one of those times.

Rich

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,755 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

Musicians are/were picky about the way the hot lines might cause problems if we used both when setting up equipment.

Probably because you were overloading the circuit.

Musicians hate 60 cycle buzzing, and have been afraid of some sound systems as they've been knocked on their asses too many times.

"Hey it wasn't me" with the Christmas lights.
Florida power did something after a bit and the lights stopped causing the problem.
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   azarby

azarby

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,021 posts
Joined: Dec 15, 2006

Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

Rich,

I have had a similar experience before with a friends HR21. Nobody could figure out what was happening, but the unit would run away similar to what you experienced. Before they called me, they spent over an hour on the phone with DTV, resetting everything, rebooting, powering down thier system. They finally called me over and I was completely stumped. I finally asked to see the Harmony remote that they also used with the system. Low and behold, there were a couple of stuck buttons that were continuousy flooding the room with stray IR. Once I fixed the stuck buttons, all the problems disappeard. This is not to say that this was happening with your system, but stray IR can do strange things. The weird thing was that the DTV light was not blinking. If only it would have blinked at at some rate that was visible, the problem would have been solved a lot earlier.

I don't know if you have an Iphone with the DTV remote control app, but I found that sometimes by using the Ethernet to contol the boxes gets me out of some weird IR induced issues.

#12 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

Mike Greer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,612 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah
Joined: Jan 20, 2004

Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

I've been using that 24-500 and it hasn't done anything like that again. That's another thing I've never seen. That was really a day to remember. Thought the "Curse of Mike Greer" had me.... :lol:

Rich


Wow - I've finally made it. I have a curse named after me!

If it happens again in 10 days you'll know for sure!

#13 OFFLINE   dminches

dminches

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 417 posts
Joined: Oct 01, 2006

Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

Rich, it seems like this was a software glitch in the Hr24-500 that somehow got activated. Maybe someone wrote some bad code like, "if the time is 12:00 and the day is 1/1, go nuts."

For it to happen on just the 500s it really seems like it is specific to that model and not to your specific configuration. Just guessing, of course.

DirecTV subscriber since 1994
HR44 (5 TB eSata) -> Runco LS-5 via HDMI

HR24-500 (2 TB eSata) -> Samsung 50" via HDMI
HR24-100 (1.5 TB eSata) -> Sony 50E2000 via HDMI
HR24-700 - owned (2 TB internal) -> Samsung LN32A550 via HDMI
HR20-100s - owned -> Sony Bravia 40"

 


#14 OFFLINE   Diana C

Diana C

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,825 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:31 AM

...All the 24-500s that went bonkers were on UPS devices. Not expensive devices, but we hadn't lost power since Sandy hit...


Low end UPS devices are notorious for throwing out noise on the AC line (caused by the inverters). Of course, why it would suddenly start being a problem, and then stop again after resetting everything, is still a mystery.

Dish Network Customer from 9/1998-11/2001
DirecTV Customer 10/2001 - 7/2014

FiOS TV/TiVo Customer since 6/2014
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
DirecTV: HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / C41-500 / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

FiOS: 2 Tivo Roamio Pros (6 TB total) / 5 Tivo Minis attached via MOCA


#15 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:12 AM

Musicians hate 60 cycle buzzing, and have been afraid of some sound systems as they've been knocked on their asses too many times.

"Hey it wasn't me" with the Christmas lights.
Florida power did something after a bit and the lights stopped causing the problem.


That would drive me nutz. Not knowing what it was.

Yup, that 60 cycle hummmmm is what they do not want, that and squealing mikes. Setting up for those guys got old pretty quickly.

Rich

#16 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

Rich,

I have had a similar experience before with a friends HR21. Nobody could figure out what was happening, but the unit would run away similar to what you experienced. Before they called me, they spent over an hour on the phone with DTV, resetting everything, rebooting, powering down thier system. They finally called me over and I was completely stumped. I finally asked to see the Harmony remote that they also used with the system. Low and behold, there were a couple of stuck buttons that were continuousy flooding the room with stray IR. Once I fixed the stuck buttons, all the problems disappeard. This is not to say that this was happening with your system, but stray IR can do strange things. The weird thing was that the DTV light was not blinking. If only it would have blinked at at some rate that was visible, the problem would have been solved a lot earlier.


Each of my HRs has it's own remote set to RF. All four of the 24-500s that went bonkers did precisely the same thing.

I don't know if you have an Iphone with the DTV remote control app, but I found that sometimes by using the Ethernet to contol the boxes gets me out of some weird IR induced issues.


Don't have an iPhone, don't use any remotes but the ones dedicated to each HR. I did just get a Sammy Galaxy III, but that's getting returned this week and I'm gonna get either another Motorola Droid or an iPhone. The S III's battery discharges too quickly. (Just thought I'd slip that in, I'm kinda PO'd about the Sammy)

Thanx for the thoughts.

Rich

#17 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:26 AM

Wow - I've finally made it. I have a curse named after me!


That's what I like about you, it takes so little to make you happy.... :lol:

If it happens again in 10 days you'll know for sure!


Let us pray.

Rich

#18 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

Rich, it seems like this was a software glitch in the Hr24-500 that somehow got activated. Maybe someone wrote some bad code like, "if the time is 12:00 and the day is 1/1, go nuts."

For it to happen on just the 500s it really seems like it is specific to that model and not to your specific configuration. Just guessing, of course.


That does seem logical, but how to explain the other two 24-500s on the different cloud that worked perfectly at the same time?

Rich

#19 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Low end UPS devices are notorious for throwing out noise on the AC line (caused by the inverters). Of course, why it would suddenly start being a problem, and then stop again after resetting everything, is still a mystery.


If it hadn't happened to me I'm not sure I'd believe it. The 20-700s and 24-100 were all on the same UPS devices and they were fine. As far as I know, nothing electrical happened after the NR came down. I really have no reason to suspect the UPS devices. I wish I had more info, but, aside from the NR coming down about that time, nothing really changed. Befuddled, I am.

Rich

#20 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,574 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

My wife was just watching an episode of a show in a folder that had 6 episodes left. She says the whole folder deleted, but doesn't remember what she did. Great, that was on a new 24-100. No UPS. Since she doesn't remember and is still extremely testy after having surgery a couple weeks ago, I was just told to forget about it.

The 24-100 is on the other cloud. If she did nothing wrong, I'm beginning to wonder about the NR. But it might have been a case of her pushing the wrong button. Another problem I'll never get a good answer to.

Rich




Protected By... spam firewall...And...