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Subnet playlist seperation question


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31 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   brett_the_bomb

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

A little background first. A have a friend who has 20 something hd/dvrs. He runs into the issue where random play lists don't show up. What he wants to do is segment his playlists into a few groups so that with different inputs on his TV he can access all play lists through a few different dvrs. These few dvrs would only see like 8 play lists instead of the whole systems list and have random playlists missing. As it is now he has turned off whole home on a few to be able to know which list he will see.

From what I've seen on other posts subnet addressing can fix this. Can anyone help me how to set this up?

I'm pretty well versed with network equip just never played with subnets. Is this setup on the dvrs or can the router define subnets based on Mac address? Any help getting us started would be great!

My setup: HR 44, HR34, 2x HR 24, 2x HR 23-700, 4x C31's, Nomad...


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#2 ONLINE   west99999

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

That would be more than 16 nodes on the DECA network and would never work correctly.

#3 OFFLINE   brett_the_bomb

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

That would be more than 16 nodes on the DECA network and would never work correctly.


What if we separated into a couple different deca networks either by seperating the swm16s or through bsf's. Not be rude but there has to be way! Get creative and help us figure this out! The router mixing the network is obviously an obstacle but the swm stuff I think is pretty easy to separate.

My setup: HR 44, HR34, 2x HR 24, 2x HR 23-700, 4x C31's, Nomad...


#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

What if we separated into a couple different deca networks either by seperating the swm16s or through bsf's. Not be rude but there has to be way! Get creative and help us figure this out! The router mixing the network is obviously an obstacle but the swm stuff I think is pretty easy to separate.

A SWiM/DECA "cloud" is limited to 16 nodes, so one node would need to be a CCK. You can have more than one cloud, but they'll be combined by the router.

Hopefully someone with a lot more networking expertise can post.

"I would to it" by using more than one router.
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#5 ONLINE   west99999

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

Of course you can set them up on different networks but you will not be able to get to all share one playlist. How are the installed now with 20 something DVR's thats 40 something tuners so how are they installed now?

#6 ONLINE   west99999

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

Also why does this person have 20 something DVR's that sound like a serious house or some serious overkill or is this is commercial place???

#7 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

Of course you can set them up on different networks but you will not be able to get to all share one playlist. How are the installed now with 20 something DVR's thats 40 something tuners so how are they installed now?

I've worked with someone who needs dual SWiM-16s to feed all of his DVRs.
The software has problems when the number of DVRs gets above 10, which is what the OP is talking about, seeing.

Breaking them down to separate networks and playlists will stabilize, but of course they won't all be shared, so changing TV inputs between different receivers was how this wants to be addressed.

If some don't need internet access, then it's "easy" by not having a CCK on one or more of the DECA networks.

When all want internet access, then using more than one router is a way that works.
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#8 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

I've worked with someone who needs dual SWiM-16s to feed all of his DVRs.
The software has problems when the number of DVRs gets above 10, which is what the OP is talking about, seeing.

Breaking them down to separate networks and playlists will stabilize, but of course they won't all be shared, so changing TV inputs between different receivers was how this wants to be addressed.

If some don't need internet access, then it's "easy" by not having a CCK on one or more of the DECA networks.

When all want internet access, then using more than one router is a way that works.


That would be the easiest solution.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#9 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

Just to be clear here folks;

If two routers are used, then that would be two routers with their WAN (internet) ports connected to an ethernet switch, with another available port on the switch then connected to the DSL/Cable modem?

And of course both routers would be assigned the same IP address from the ISP?

I realize I should know this basic networking question, but ... :)

#10 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:36 AM

I have a system with a similar situation.

I have 14 Boxes, 11 of them DVRs. Since the system can only show 10 Play Lists at a time, I have 10 DVRs (plus the non-DVRs) on one subnet and the 11th DVR on another subnet. If I ever add another DVR to my system, I would just simply connect it to the secondary subnet.

Anyhow, for your particular situation, you would need three routers and three CCKs.

Router #1 would be set to: (admin settings of router)
IP address of 192.168.1.1
Set DHCP range to 20 clients (for example) ie Range of 192.168.1.151 to 192.168.1.170
WAN Input would be connected to modem

CCK #1 would be attached to LAN output of Router #1
Create DECA Cloud of 8 connected DVRs to CCK #1
Assign Static IPs for each DVR (DHCP can be used, too, if you'd like)

DVR #1 would have: (set on DVR Menu Settings)
Static IP address of 192.168.1.101 (outside of DHCP range set on router)
Default Gateway of 192.168.1.1 (IP address of Router #1)
DNS Server of 192.168.0.1 (Usually the IP address of modem)

DVR #2
Static IP 192.168.1.102
Default Gateway 192.168.1.1
DNS Server 192.168.0.1

Repeat for DVRs #3 to #8 with corresponding last digits of IP address (103, 104, 105, etc.)
Default Gateway and DNS Server are the same for all 8 DVRs.

NEXT STEP.

Router #2
Assign IP Address of 192.168.2.1
Connect WAN Port of Router #2 to LAN Port of Router #1
Set Router #2 with
Default Gateway of 192.168.1.1 (IP Address of Router #1)
DNS Server of 192.168.168.0.1 (IP Address of Modem)

Connect CCK #2 to LAN Port of Router #2

DVRs #9 to #16
Set Static IPs outside of DHCP range of router #2
For example 192.168.2.109 to 192.168.2.116
Default Gateway of 192.168.2.1
DNS Server of 192.168.0.1

STEP #3
Would be the similar to Step #2
Connect WAN of Router #3 to LAN of Router #1
Router #3 will have Gateway of 192.168.1.1 and DNS Server of 192.168.0.1
Connect CCK #3 to LAN Port of Router #3

Use 192.168.3.1 for IP Address of router #3 and as Default Gateway for DVRs #17 to 20+
Use 192.168.3.117 to 192.168.3.xxx for the remaining DVRs.

By the way, all Subnet Masks for all devices would be set to 255.255.255.0

All 20 something DVRs will now have internet access. However, if you plan to use the iPad App, you will only see the 8 or so DVRs that happen to be on the same subnet (via wi-fi) that you happen to be on. You would have to manually connect to each specific wi-fi network individually to have have access to the other DVRs.

The remote scheduler App (along with website) will show all 20+ DVRs. So, if you want to set recordings via internet, you can do so. Please note that the DVRs do not have to be connected to internet to schedule remote recordings.

Also, please note that the IP addresses and subnets that I used are just examples. You can use any IP address and subnet you wish. Just make sure that each cloud you set up falls within the same subnet of the router that it is connected to.
Slimline, WB616 (2), SWM8 (2), OTA, MRV (U)
Den: Sony KDS-60A3000 -> HR20-700; Sony KDL-40S2000 (5) -> HR20-700 (2) & HR20-100 (3)
Master Bed: Kuro PDP-5020FD -> HR34-700
Master Bath: Sony KDL-26S3000 + PSP -> HR24-200
Daughter's: Sony KDL-40W3000 -> HR20-700
Son's: Sony KDL-40W3000 -> HR24-500
Kitchen: Sharp 20" -> H24-700
Guest: Sharp 20" -> H20-100
Patio: SunbriteTV 3220 -> H25-500
Living Room: Sony 42" XBR Plasma -> HR20-100

Diagram of Setup

#11 ONLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

DBSNewbie, what you have described is not subnetting. You've basically created three lans 192.168.1.x / 192.168.2.x / 192.168.3.x with three routers and 3 CCks.

It is possible to SUB-net an class C Lan on one router and have groups of devices that see each other but not into another group.

I've just returned from a 35 mile bike ride and am an hour behind on ACC basketball and a full card this afternoon of NFL.

I'll try to create some samples that only require one router on the home network.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#12 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

DBSNewbie, what you have described is not subnetting. You've basically created three lans 192.168.1.x / 192.168.2.x / 192.168.3.x with three routers and 3 CCks.

It is possible to SUB-net an class C Lan on one router and have groups of devices that see each other but not into another group.

I've just returned from a 35 mile bike ride and am an hour behind on ACC basketball and a full card this afternoon of NFL.

I'll try to create some samples that only require one router on the home network.


I look forward to your suggestions.

I'm not an expert on networking, but was able to separate my DVRs through trial and error. I had tried to use different subnets on the same router, but could not achieve the desired results of separate "clusters" of DVRs, while all of them having access to the internet.

A single router would be the most economical route; however, at least I can confirm that the multiple Router/CCK configuration does work.

Enjoy your day of sports. I'm gonna be missing the Denver game, myself, as I have a kids b-day party to attend. Bummer :(
Slimline, WB616 (2), SWM8 (2), OTA, MRV (U)
Den: Sony KDS-60A3000 -> HR20-700; Sony KDL-40S2000 (5) -> HR20-700 (2) & HR20-100 (3)
Master Bed: Kuro PDP-5020FD -> HR34-700
Master Bath: Sony KDL-26S3000 + PSP -> HR24-200
Daughter's: Sony KDL-40W3000 -> HR20-700
Son's: Sony KDL-40W3000 -> HR24-500
Kitchen: Sharp 20" -> H24-700
Guest: Sharp 20" -> H20-100
Patio: SunbriteTV 3220 -> H25-500
Living Room: Sony 42" XBR Plasma -> HR20-100

Diagram of Setup

#13 OFFLINE   brett_the_bomb

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

As VOS said different inputs is the idea. I think both ideas I have heard would work. Most economical is the goal. And least equipment. I havent been able to reach my buddy since posting. He works for dtv so its basically for fun/archiving since he likely records more than he can actually watch. He also had 2 of his brothers work for dtv so that's how he is soo flush with equipment.

My setup: HR 44, HR34, 2x HR 24, 2x HR 23-700, 4x C31's, Nomad...


#14 ONLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

I pounded this out during halftime so here goes . . .

This isn't meant to be a tutorial on subnetting -- there are plenty of good articles, subnet calculators and other tools out there on the internet.

It's an example of grouping devices (dvrs) on a class C network so you limit what they can see - and what can be seen on the network.

Most home networks use 192.168.x.x with a mask of 255.255.255.0, which provides space for 254 devices on the network. The first and last addresses (0, 255) are used by the network.

The mask is the secret. . . it's a binary filter that allows the device to communicate or hides it.

Being binary, it's a power of 2. . . sometimes noted by /26 would be a mask of 192. This allows 64 addresses out of 256 to be used. Actually only 62 are usable. (32 total bits in the mask - 26 is 6 bits or 2 raised to the 6 power is 64).

So you could start your group at 192.168.1.193 with a mask of 255.255.255.192 and have a group from .193 to .254 available that can see each other.

If 64 is too many, you can use any power of 2. Just remember if it's a group of 8, (mask 255.255.255.248) you only have 6 available addresses. Easy hint, 256 - the group size is the last octet of the mask.

Try it on a pc. Set the mask to 255.255.255.255 (1 unit in the group- no broadcast) . Windows will complain that it's not the same as the router, and you will need to provide a dns that's not dhcp.

You can surf but you won't see any other devices on your network. Just those in your group (of 1).

Sub-netting does pose problems with other devices on the same network seeing that group (iPad remote controlling a dvr) but that's another problem.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#15 OFFLINE   brett_the_bomb

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

...

Try it on a pc. Set the mask to 255.255.255.255 (1 unit in the group- no broadcast) . Windows will complain that it's not the same as the router, and you will need to provide a dns that's not dhcp.

You can surf but you won't see any other devices on your network. Just those in your group (of 1).

Sub-netting does pose problems with other devices on the same network seeing that group (iPad remote controlling a dvr) but that's another problem.


Thanks so much for this. I think this is the solution I am after.

If I follow this correctly, is it possible to leave enough room in each cluster to manually move the ipad between clusters? Or any other device for that matter. He does have a nomad lol.

My setup: HR 44, HR34, 2x HR 24, 2x HR 23-700, 4x C31's, Nomad...


#16 OFFLINE   Doug Brott

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

Without getting into too much detail, I believe that either multiple VLANs or real LANs will be the best long term strategy.
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All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#17 OFFLINE   brett_the_bomb

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

Without getting into too much detail, I believe that either multiple VLANs or real LANs will be the best long term strategy.


Maybe this is an idea that has already been proposed but many of us are diy guys. And many of us strive to be diy guys but a sub forum of diy how-to's would be awesome. I think a how to on something like this would be a great reference sticky but wouldn't belong in the normal forums of a product. Just an idea for some one much more important than I.

My setup: HR 44, HR34, 2x HR 24, 2x HR 23-700, 4x C31's, Nomad...


#18 OFFLINE   DBSNewbie

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

I pounded this out during halftime so here goes . . .

This isn't meant to be a tutorial on subnetting -- there are plenty of good articles, subnet calculators and other tools out there on the internet.

It's an example of grouping devices (dvrs) on a class C network so you limit what they can see - and what can be seen on the network.

Most home networks use 192.168.x.x with a mask of 255.255.255.0, which provides space for 254 devices on the network. The first and last addresses (0, 255) are used by the network.

The mask is the secret. . . it's a binary filter that allows the device to communicate or hides it.

Being binary, it's a power of 2. . . sometimes noted by /26 would be a mask of 192. This allows 64 addresses out of 256 to be used. Actually only 62 are usable. (32 total bits in the mask - 26 is 6 bits or 2 raised to the 6 power is 64).

So you could start your group at 192.168.1.193 with a mask of 255.255.255.192 and have a group from .193 to .254 available that can see each other.

If 64 is too many, you can use any power of 2. Just remember if it's a group of 8, (mask 255.255.255.248) you only have 6 available addresses. Easy hint, 256 - the group size is the last octet of the mask.

Try it on a pc. Set the mask to 255.255.255.255 (1 unit in the group- no broadcast) . Windows will complain that it's not the same as the router, and you will need to provide a dns that's not dhcp.

You can surf but you won't see any other devices on your network. Just those in your group (of 1).

Sub-netting does pose problems with other devices on the same network seeing that group (iPad remote controlling a dvr) but that's another problem.


I apologize for not understanding. All of the above is still very confusing to me. I have read and re-reread it several times, but I still don't quite get it.

The goal of the OP is to group the 20 or so DVRs into clusters of 8. Each cluster would only see the Unified Playlist of the 8 combined DVRs in its corresponding cluster and not the other clusters.

I'm not sure if the OP also wishes to have internet access to all 20+ DVRs, but in my case (11 DVRs on separate clusters), internet to all of them is required.

To be clear, can you explain what the values on DVRs #1 to #20 would be set to?

ie IP Address, Subnet Mask, DNS Server, etc.

Also, on the router itself. What settings would it have?

As I had mentioned on a previous post, I am using multiple routers and LANs (which I mistakenly called different subnets). If I could figure out how to get everything running off of one router, then all the better as it's less equipment that needs to be managed.

Sorry again for the dumb questions.

Thanks again.
Slimline, WB616 (2), SWM8 (2), OTA, MRV (U)
Den: Sony KDS-60A3000 -> HR20-700; Sony KDL-40S2000 (5) -> HR20-700 (2) & HR20-100 (3)
Master Bed: Kuro PDP-5020FD -> HR34-700
Master Bath: Sony KDL-26S3000 + PSP -> HR24-200
Daughter's: Sony KDL-40W3000 -> HR20-700
Son's: Sony KDL-40W3000 -> HR24-500
Kitchen: Sharp 20" -> H24-700
Guest: Sharp 20" -> H20-100
Patio: SunbriteTV 3220 -> H25-500
Living Room: Sony 42" XBR Plasma -> HR20-100

Diagram of Setup

#19 OFFLINE   brett_the_bomb

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

I apologize for not understanding. All of the above is still very confusing to me. I have read and re-reread it several times, but I still don't quite get it.

The goal of the OP is to group the 20 or so DVRs into clusters of 8. Each cluster would only see the Unified Playlist of the 8 combined DVRs in its corresponding cluster and not the other clusters.

I'm not sure if the OP also wishes to have internet access to all 20+ DVRs, but in my case (11 DVRs on separate clusters), internet to all of them is required.

To be clear, can you explain what the values on DVRs #1 to #20 would be set to?

ie IP Address, Subnet Mask, DNS Server, etc.

Also, on the router itself. What settings would it have?

As I had mentioned on a previous post, I am using multiple routers and LANs (which I mistakenly called different subnets). If I could figure out how to get everything running off of one router, then all the better as it's less equipment that needs to be managed.

Sorry again for the dumb questions.

Thanks again.


I wouldn't feel bad. I only understood it on a general level until just about now. So after many hours of research here is my simple explanation. Set router to subnet of 255.255.255.192 then IP address's 192.168.1.2-63 are a cluster, 65-127 another, 129-191 another and 193-254 another. I "believe" you can either assign static IP's on the receivers or use dhcp reservations on the router. All would have internet and if u were using an ipad u would have to change its IP to access a specific cluster. Hope this helps.

The subnet ending with 192 means 4 clusters. You can look up the charts on line if u need to know an ending that offers more or less clusters but the cluster are multiples of 2 starting with 0=1 cluster. Don't remember the code for 2 clusters. Then 192=4. Again this A LOT of research to grasp. That is my lamen explanation.

My setup: HR 44, HR34, 2x HR 24, 2x HR 23-700, 4x C31's, Nomad...


#20 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

I wouldn't feel bad. I only understood it on a general level until just about now. So after many hours of research here is my simple explanation. Set router to subnet of 255.255.255.192 then IP address's 192.168.1.2-63 are a cluster, 65-127 another, 129-191 another and 193-254 another. I "believe" you can either assign static IP's on the receivers or use dhcp reservations on the router. All would have internet and if u were using an ipad u would have to change its IP to access a specific cluster. Hope this helps.

The subnet ending with 192 means 4 clusters. You can look up the charts on line if u need to know an ending that offers more or less clusters but the cluster are multiples of 2 starting with 0=1 cluster. Don't remember the code for 2 clusters. Then 192=4. Again this A LOT of research to grasp. That is my lamen explanation.


Yep, same here :)

Lot of hours of research on this myself to finally get the hang of this subnetting, and still far from being considered anyone's expert. But the above is largely correct, just on the two points marked in red its actually the "subnet mask" in the router you would set to 255.255.255.192 for the four subnet clusters of 62, 63, 63, and 62 available addresses.

Or set the routers mask to 255.255.255.128 for two 126 available address size clusters.




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