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Directv DECAs and Internet


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62 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

We've found that MRV problems due to low signal levels in the connected home (550MHz) range are very hard to diagnose and so it's best to avoid over-splitting if possible.

There is merit to this statement, "but" it has more to do with using the SWiM-16, than with a SWiM LNB.
A 2-way has about 8 dB of loss for the DECA signal and the 8-way has about 14 dB, so about half of the loss for DECA would be through these two splitters. DECA being in the 550 MHz range, means the coax loss isn't as great as the SAT/SWiM signal loss is.

When you're using a SWiM-16, where there is the added loss of the crossover of the -16 plus the loss of the splitter on each of the -16's outputs, using a splitter "downstream" of the main splitter can easily cause too much loss for the DECA signal between the DECAs that are the farthest away from each other.
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#42 ONLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

Hoping I don't confuse things here further but with what I think the OP is attempting to do could not a diplexer route to that "leg" and not have to deal with signal loss?

I apologize if that question derails things. I have tried in my overtaxed at the moment brain to figure this out but between enhanced workload and some sleep depravation. . .

Don "stupidly wondering I am" Bolton

There is merit to this statement, "but" it has more to do with using the SWiM-16, than with a SWiM LNB.
A 2-way has about 8 dB of loss for the DECA signal and the 8-way has about 14 dB, so about half of the loss for DECA would be through these two splitters. DECA being in the 550 MHz range, means the coax loss isn't as great as the SAT/SWiM signal loss is.

When you're using a SWiM-16, where there is the added loss of the crossover of the -16 plus the loss of the splitter on each of the -16's outputs, using a splitter "downstream" of the main splitter can easily cause too much loss for the DECA signal between the DECAs that are the farthest away from each other.


What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?


#43 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

Hoping I don't confuse things here further but with what I think the OP is attempting to do could not a diplexer route to that "leg" and not have to deal with signal loss?

I apologize if that question derails things. I have tried in my overtaxed at the moment brain to figure this out but between enhanced workload and some sleep depravation. . .

Don "stupidly wondering I am" Bolton

I don't think a diplexer is going to do what the OP wants, as at the same location is a receiver using DECA. Using a diplexer would block the signal to this receiver.
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#44 ONLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

Sort of had that image in mind though the new switch could be connected to the 24. Course that would give him a DECA Frankenstein network such as I run but he is sort of tending that way already.

Ideally he would have second lines from a pre SWM install and separate the whole home DECA from the unsupported network and just join them at the switch for internet access.


Don "I'll shut up now;)" Bolton

I don't think a diplexer is going to do what the OP wants, as at the same location is a receiver using DECA. Using a diplexer would block the signal to this receiver.


What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?


#45 OFFLINE   scuba629

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

wow everyone thanks for the replies!

I went ahead and bought all of the items listed above. I also picked up some CAT6 cables and a few Gigabit Switches.

I think the only thing I didn't account for was more coax cables. Is there a common local store(best buy, radio shack, etc) I could visit to buy two short coax cables for the splitter? I don't know if there is anything I should look for. Or maybe not get?

Thanks again!

#46 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

I think the only thing I didn't account for was more coax cables. Is there a common local store(best buy, radio shack, etc) I could visit to buy two short coax cables for the splitter?

I'd try Walmart or Target first. You're going to get hosed at Best Buy and probably bent over at Radio Shack. Next on the list would be Lowes or Home Depot.

Unless you're re-making the Power Inserter connection, you really can't go wrong on the RG6 cabling.

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#47 OFFLINE   scuba629

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:22 AM

I was looking at these.. I guess the price might be a tad high but there is a radioshack in walking distance to my house.

RadioShack® 1-Ft. RG-6 Coax Cable

Is something like this ok?

#48 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

I guess the price might be a tad high but there is a radioshack in walking distance to my house.

Yes that cable will work and yes, you're getting bent over pretty good.

Somewhat contrary to my prediction, Best Buy offers some 1' cables for well under $3 each. Those may only be available through their website (or not).

Monoprice.com offers small quantities for $1.24 each and their shipping rates are very fair.

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#49 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

I was looking at these.. I guess the price might be a tad high but there is a radioshack in walking distance to my house.

RadioShack® 1-Ft. RG-6 Coax Cable

Is something like this ok?

Monoprice.com is a great place for any kind of cables.

I've purchased over 2 dozen coax, HDMI, and other cables from them, as well as a few other things.

Between the selection, quality, and very competitive prices (and good customer service), they outshine most other places for those kinds of things.
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#50 OFFLINE   scuba629

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

is there any real logic in that a better cable will get me better throughput/speed for my Ethernet transfers?

#51 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:38 AM

is there any real logic in that a better cable will get me better throughput/speed for my Ethernet transfers?

There are plenty of high quality Ethernet cables out there...and as stated earlier...they can be bought exonomically as well. Price doesn't always reflect better quality...in fact, I've found high-end HDMI cables at monoprice.com for less than $10 that were selling at Best Buy for $79 with the identical specs.
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#52 OFFLINE   scuba629

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

I have cat6 cables already. I guess I was mostly concerned with the RG6 cables.

#53 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:09 AM

I have cat6 cables already. I guess I was mostly concerned with the RG6 cables.

You can pick up reliable RG6 alot of places.

The connectors that come with it are as important as the cable itself. Compression connectors are ideal (in contrast to the cheaper "screw on" type).
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#54 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

I guess I was mostly concerned with the RG6 cables.

How long will these cables be?
If they'll be 3', "almost any cable" will work fine.
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#55 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

is there any real logic in that a better cable will get me better throughput/speed for my Ethernet transfers?


With the caveat that YMMV, and that you shouldn't try this at home....

We are running 15 tuners (13 recordable) across 7 receivers with Whole Home/DECA using the same RG-6 cable (with a few minor exceptions) that was installed in 2001 to support our conversion to dual tuner DirecTiVo DVRs. Some of the cable goes back to 1997 and our initial Dish Network installation. Most of the cable is Radio Shack quad-shield RG6, but some is just plain old foil shield. Except for the outdoor cable connections (which were replaced when we had the Slimline dish installed) all the connections are crimp style. With all that, we get excellent DECA performance and 90+ on all transponders at all receivers.

Personally, I think too much faith is placed in cable "quality" and not enough care taken in how it is handled. Kinking a coax cable will hurt performance more than using a "lower grade" of cable.
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#56 OFFLINE   scuba629

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

ive got it all setup and working. I did notice once that a show kinda skipped for a second when using my MRV. Not sure why as I wasn't really using my network.

This was coming from the bedroom HR23 going to the now split cable of the HR24.

It bothers me a little but im sure there is nothing I can do to fix it.

#57 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:48 AM

You do realize though that with DECA you don't need to run CAT5 wire to all your locations. You could just have the CAT5 cable going to the HR34 and with that all the other receivers would all have access to the Internet, your home network, and Whole Home. This would also keep all of the Whole Home traffic off of your home network.

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With all the new TV's coming out with Internet features it would be silly not running Cat5 wire to all locations. With Netflicks etc etc and Home viewing of personal Video's and music and photos

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#58 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

With all the new TV's coming out with Internet features it would be silly not running Cat5 wire to all locations. With Netflicks etc etc and Home viewing of personal Video's and music and photos

Your argument is air tight but it doesn't support the party line so you will likely be called out for your heresy against the Church of DECA.

Wireless is supported (directly or indirectly) by many of these streaming devices and smart TVs, but there are a significant number for whom wireless cannot work due to the proliferation of wireless installations in a relatively small area.

If for no other reason than that Ethernet can easily and cheaply be routed, it makes more sense as the device density increases.

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#59 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

Your argument is air tight but it doesn't support the party line so you will likely be called out for your heresy against the Church of DECA.

Wireless is supported (directly or indirectly) by many of these streaming devices and smart TVs, but there are a significant number for whom wireless cannot work due to the proliferation of wireless installations in a relatively small area.

If for no other reason than that Ethernet can easily and cheaply be routed, it makes more sense as the device density increases.


My point was not that he shouldn't run Ethernet because of the "Church of DECA". Rick made the comment that he was going to run CAT5 to all his locations to get Internet access for his receivers. I was pointing out that it was not necessary as DECA will handle what he wants. DECA has its place and using it for MRV is exactly what it is there for. If you can keep traffic off your network so that other devices have use of your network with the possibility of interference, why wouldn't you want to take advantage of that?

As for routing CAT5 being easy and cheap, while CAT5 cable is cheap to purchase, routing it in someone's house is not always easy or feasible. While I would recommend any new house being built to look at having CAT5 run to every room, retrofitting a house is not always a solution.

In my house in particular, the bedroom is part of an addition that was added onto the house. Trying to fish CAT5 cable from the basement up to the attic then over to the bedroom is not going to happen easily.

In cases like that, I would actually recommend the idea of using a modified DECA setup where you have a switch installed at one end and can connect devices to the Internet via the DECA cloud.

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HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
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HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#60 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

With all the new TV's coming out with Internet features it would be silly not running Cat5 wire to all locations. With Netflicks etc etc and Home viewing of personal Video's and music and photos


If you can run CAT5 to all your locations, then by all means do it. I was just pointing out that for DirecTV, the use of DECA is recommended. That would keep the MRV traffic isolated from your regular network traffic.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom





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