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Guest Message by DevFuse

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HR24 over the HR23


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39 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Sorry Rich, I have to disagree with you on that one. A mousetrap is still a mousetrap, there are better mousetraps...but they are still mousetraps. Its like the difference between wants and needs. You need it to play and record, etc....you want it to do it as fast as possible.

I 100% agree that certain models are faster than others and they would be more desirable to have, but they are still functionally equivalent. I guess I dont see how anyone can disagree with pure and simple facts. Are we using different dictionaries for the term "functionally equivalent"?


Let's go back to the Chevette and the Corvette. If I offered you each at no cost which one would you take? The Corvette, I'd imagine. Why, because it's a better built car (I'm assuming the Chevette is new) and is faster, handles better, and costs a lot more. Isn't that what D* tries to do when they give someone a lesser model of the HRs and tries to explain it by saying they are equal?

I just looked up the term "functionally equivalent" and got nothing that pertains to D* and it's usage of the term. I've done this several times and come up with not a whole lot. "Functional equivalent" does come up and that does have meanings that would allow D* to stretch that into what it chooses to believe or preach. Isn't speed a function? Would you be happy if they sent you a 22-100 or a 23 instead of a 24? Would you want one of those slow HRs, even if they were "functionally equivalent", according to a company that deceives the public in its ads rather blatantly? And employs CSRs that are liable to tell you anything to pacify you?

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#22 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

Yeah, I've had the same conversations with D* CSRs. And I usually end up logically convincing them that they are wrong. Oddly, the CMG folks tend to agree with me.

Problem with using that statement is that, in using it, folks who don't know better believe it and that just allows it to endure.

Rich

CSRs, like "CMG folks", will eventually agree with you just to get you to stop arguing with them; they really don't give the furry crack of a rat's hat what you might be convincing yourself of.

The problem with the term "functionally equivalent" is that at least one of us just can't seem to understand the term in the first place, which is why we are even having this discussion.
It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#23 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

Retailers such as Solid Signal can help you get exactly what you want such as an HR24-500!!! :D


I didn't think even they guaranteed manufacturer.

#24 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

Yeah, I've had the same conversations with D* CSRs. And I usually end up logically convincing them that they are wrong. Oddly, the CMG folks tend to agree with me.

Problem with using that statement is that, in using it, folks who don't know better believe it and that just allows it to endure.

Rich


I wasn't able to convince a CSR that an hr34 wasn't equivalent to a 2x, even though he agreed on the differences, so you've had better luck than me.

#25 OFFLINE   acostapimps

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

I think is best if they do a truck roll installation because it's better chance to get a HR24 that way instead of shipping the receiver for self-install, but sometimes they won't have it if they don't have enough in the warehouse, or do like me if they have lots of time for your install and pay them gas money to bring you one if they have it in stock.

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#26 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:55 AM

I wasn't able to convince a CSR that an hr34 wasn't equivalent to a 2x, even though he agreed on the differences, so you've had better luck than me.


A PP CSR perhaps? Last time I called I got one that didn't know what a 20-700 was.

Rich

#27 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:59 AM

CSRs, like "CMG folks", will eventually agree with you just to get you to stop arguing with them; they really don't give the furry crack of a rat's hat what you might be convincing yourself of.

The problem with the term "functionally equivalent" is that at least one of us just can't seem to understand the term in the first place, which is why we are even having this discussion.


What's happened is just a semantic problem. The term makes little sense and yet I do understand the term. As it is used by D* to confuse people.

Rich

#28 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:31 AM

What's happened is just a semantic problem. The term makes little sense and yet I do understand the term. As it is used by D* to confuse people.

Rich


I actually thought he might be taking a pot shot at me, not you Rich. Let's face it, noone wants anything but 24's, 34's and C31's, or 44's when they become available. But that isnt really a realistic option for a company like D* due to the number of units in the field that people would want replaced just because the newer unit is faster.

#29 OFFLINE   hancox

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:48 AM

Sorry Rich, I have to disagree with you on that one. A mousetrap is still a mousetrap, there are better mousetraps...but they are still mousetraps. Its like the difference between wants and needs. You need it to play and record, etc....you want it to do it as fast as possible.

I 100% agree that certain models are faster than others and they would be more desirable to have, but they are still functionally equivalent. I guess I dont see how anyone can disagree with pure and simple facts. Are we using different dictionaries for the term "functionally equivalent"?


Still false. Capacity is a function. It differs between the models. They're not equal.

The speed stuff is somewhat subjective and arguable. Capacity isn't.

#30 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

I actually thought he might be taking a pot shot at me, not you Rich. Let's face it, noone wants anything but 24's, 34's and C31's, or 44's when they become available. But that isnt really a realistic option for a company like D* due to the number of units in the field that people would want replaced just because the newer unit is faster.


It's getting to the point where speed doesn't matter. The 24s are just fine as far as I'm concerned, speed-wise. I've found that the UPL populates better if you take your time rebooting the HRs on your MRV, so the quickness of the reboot, while nice, doesn't really matter to me.

I don't know who he was aiming at when he took that potshot either. In another thread he's calling some folks "haters", but doesn't single anyone out. Lotta name calling yesterday. Always find that depressing.

Getting back to the Corvette. I was really tempted to take one out for a ride this summer. We were looking for a new SUV and the Chevy dealer had a bright red Vette in the showroom. "Only" $60,000". He offered me a test drive, but I declined. I was afraid I'd buy it.... :lol:

Rich

#31 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

Saying an HR21 (with 320GB drive and slower performance) is "functionally equivalent" to an HR24 (with a 500GB drive and noticeably better performance) is like saying an iPhone 5 with 64gb is "functionally equivalent" to an iPhone 3GS with 16gb. The 3GS can run the same operating system and apps as the 5, but the user experience is VERY different. If they were truly equivalent, the 3GS would still have a retail value.

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#32 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

Still false. Capacity is a function. It differs between the models. They're not equal.

The speed stuff is somewhat subjective and arguable. Capacity isn't.


Big, noticeable difference in speed when you match up a 24 against a 21 series HR. My MRV has 10 HRs on it and it bogs down my 20-700 that I have on it. Used an off-MRV 20-700 the other day and it was damn near as fast as my 24s that are all on MRV. The UPL really slows the older HRs down and it's quite noticeable.

But that's just my MRV system. Not many folks are running 10 HRs on MRV.

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#33 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

Saying an HR21 (with 320GB drive and slower performance) is "functionally equivalent" to an HR24 (with a 500GB drive and noticeably better performance) is like saying an iPhone 5 with 64gb is "functionally equivalent" to an iPhone 3GS with 16gb. The 3GS can run the same operating system and apps as the 5, but the user experience is VERY different. If they were truly equivalent, the 3GS would still have a retail value.


One of my many sisters-in-law has an aunt who bought a lion cub. I had seen the two lion cubs that were for sale in Red Bank, NJ and could not believe anyone would buy one. This was quite a while ago. Anyhow, her aunt and uncle buy the cub and their argument, at the beginning, was that it was "just like a kitten". I know you could make an argument for a cat and a lion being functionally equal, I have in several posts. After a couple months, the cub's demeanor changed and he ended up scaring them half to death. They bought a kitten. Don't know what happened to the lion. :lol:

Rich

#34 OFFLINE   djrobx

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:53 AM

If you use whole-home DVR, the HR24s are a worthwhile upgrade. For me, the biggest improvement is in the trick play. Remote playback on a 24 is close to local recordings. On our 22, skipping commercials on remote DVRs takes noticeably longer.

The performance improvements that came with the HDGUI have made the older DVRs more tolerable without WHDVR.

The "extras" (apps, youtube, etc) are really slow on both the 24 and 22.

#35 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

I didn't think even they guaranteed manufacturer.


Let me Rephrase that Statement as I meant an HR24 Not a Specific Model like an HR24-500.

You are Correct that Solid Signal will Not Guarantee what Model you get. :)
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#36 OFFLINE   RobW52

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

My HR23-700 just died and I called for a replacement. My main issue with this receiver was with the delay I often incurred while changing channels....sometimes a 10 sec or longer delay while the screen went blank and flickered a couple times. Also with the fact that it often times was very slow to respond to a channel number punched into the remote so that you would often have to type the channel number 3 or 4 times for it to 'take' (was like it was busy in the background doing something like when a computer CPU is maxed out at 100%). When you guys are talking about speed differences in the models is this the type of issue you are referring to? Or are you strictly talking about menu navigation, boot-up times, etc.
I have often wondered if the delay in changing channels wasn't just an issue with my HR23 but with the HR23, AVR (Pioneer Elite VSX-21) and TV (LG 60PK550) and respective HDMI interfaces not 'playing together' nicely and attempting to maybe synch-up the resolution setting or something every time?
Any opinions on whether or not the HR23 is the main issue?

#37 OFFLINE   VABlitz

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

According to Solid Signal the HR24 needs BBConverters while the HR23 has them built in. I guess BBCs are not needed with SWM Sat Setups, but those of us with the old Sat setups need the BBC.

#38 OFFLINE   JBv

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

My HR23-700 just died and I called for a replacement. My main issue with this receiver was with the delay I often incurred while changing channels....sometimes a 10 sec or longer delay while the screen went blank and flickered a couple times. Also with the fact that it often times was very slow to respond to a channel number punched into the remote so that you would often have to type the channel number 3 or 4 times for it to 'take' (was like it was busy in the background doing something like when a computer CPU is maxed out at 100%). When you guys are talking about speed differences in the models is this the type of issue you are referring to? Or are you strictly talking about menu navigation, boot-up times, etc.
I have often wondered if the delay in changing channels wasn't just an issue with my HR23 but with the HR23, AVR (Pioneer Elite VSX-21) and TV (LG 60PK550) and respective HDMI interfaces not 'playing together' nicely and attempting to maybe synch-up the resolution setting or something every time?
Any opinions on whether or not the HR23 is the main issue?


You should leave your DVR with native off...if the HDMI is going through an AVR and native is on that can really slow things up.
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#39 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

HR23-700 is a slow POC!

get HR24 and don't ever think twice about it.

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#40 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:33 AM

My HR23-700 just died and I called for a replacement. My main issue with this receiver was with the delay I often incurred while changing channels....sometimes a 10 sec or longer delay while the screen went blank and flickered a couple times. Also with the fact that it often times was very slow to respond to a channel number punched into the remote so that you would often have to type the channel number 3 or 4 times for it to 'take' (was like it was busy in the background doing something like when a computer CPU is maxed out at 100%). When you guys are talking about speed differences in the models is this the type of issue you are referring to? Or are you strictly talking about menu navigation, boot-up times, etc.
I have often wondered if the delay in changing channels wasn't just an issue with my HR23 but with the HR23, AVR (Pioneer Elite VSX-21) and TV (LG 60PK550) and respective HDMI interfaces not 'playing together' nicely and attempting to maybe synch-up the resolution setting or something every time?
Any opinions on whether or not the HR23 is the main issue?


Yup, not the best HR ever made. And it's probably the cause of your problems.

Rich




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