Jump to content

Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

The DIRECTV HD DVR - Year 6


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 31,674 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

I'm not so sure DirecTV uses Broadcom. That's more of a Dish Network / Cable Operator thing.

Rest assured that all but a very few DirecTV HD DVRs and HD receivers use Broadcom chipsets.

An NXP chipset is featured in the HR24-500.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#62 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 18,595 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

Now how about a software change where an external drive ADDS not replaces to overall storage.

That's been a fantasy since before eSATA was enabled. Priority-wise it probably doesn't come anywhere near the clamour for account level registration.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#63 OFFLINE   cypherx

cypherx

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,759 posts
  • LocationPA - Berks County
Joined: Aug 27, 2010

Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

Why would they do that? Enable a competitor where they don't make a dime? Sure it would be nice but it ain't gonna happen.

We will never see Vudu, Hulu, Netflix, etc on anything from DTV.


Im not talking about adding a competitors service, like Netflix as a tv app. I'm saying if tuners are tied up or the signals shot for whatever reason and you tune to say Food Network HD... It could ask you if you want to stream it live over the Internet. It could hit up the very same servers DirecTV already has setup to live stream a selection of channels to the iPad / iPhone app.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---
HR24-200
H24-200


#64 OFFLINE   unixguru

unixguru

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 570 posts
Joined: Jul 09, 2007

Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

Im not talking about adding a competitors service, like Netflix as a tv app. I'm saying if tuners are tied up or the signals shot for whatever reason and you tune to say Food Network HD... It could ask you if you want to stream it live over the Internet. It could hit up the very same servers DirecTV already has setup to live stream a selection of channels to the iPad / iPhone app.


I get it now.

I don't use the DTV internet services so don't really know much about it. No doubt the number of channels is limited. Probably not the same resolution/bitrate either.

Can't really see it being of much value for me. (Nice having 5 tuners in HR34 :)) Even when tuner-limited a lot of stuff is rebroadcast. When I used to have 2 tuners it didn't take much magic arranging my priority list to get the non-repeating primary network stuff first; if a sat/cable show got bumped it wasn't much effort to get it to pick up reruns. I also don't watch hardly anything live so tuner-shortage means little to me.

I can see a day coming when every show is available for streaming in full HD. Then every show being available for on-demand isn't far behind. Things will get interesting then. If my selections get automatically cached on my DVR via the internet then I don't need sat. I've talked about this in other posts; I expect this will come in the relatively near future; it may very well not be DTV providing it.

Sure will be interesting to see how DTV dances around this. I suppose a miracle could happen and they could decide internet-delivery is their future.

#65 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

Hoosier205

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 6,596 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2007

Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

Im not talking about adding a competitors service, like Netflix as a tv app. I'm saying if tuners are tied up or the signals shot for whatever reason and you tune to say Food Network HD... It could ask you if you want to stream it live over the Internet. It could hit up the very same servers DirecTV already has setup to live stream a selection of channels to the iPad / iPhone app.


An interesting idea.
DTV = Digital Television

#66 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,549 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

I suspect this is due to the use of Java. I've never seen a Java application that wasn't slow - on any platform. I used to do software development on Sun (Oracle) Solaris (UNIX) enterprise platform. There are several examples in the administration and developer realms where the GUIs were rewritten in Java. They became slower, bloated, and uglier. The speed has gotten better as the typical CPU and memory size have increased substantially. But that is an enterprise environment; this kind of embedded low-powered set top environment is too underpowered to support this software technology well. On the plus side it's less susceptible to some classes of bugs.

Having committed to that path the only thing DTV can do is throw CPU and memory at the problem. Doesn't seem like a good path given that those are per-unit costs.



Clearly they have work to do with this technology. When you do a simple network layering over an already sluggish technology you get double sluggish.

Despite not being thrilled with the extra level of sluggishness (and more bugs) the model is desirable for my household. My HR34, AM21N, and external RAID storage are at my wiring hub in the basement where they get the best air circulation and nobody hears the fans. We used to have that mess in our living room cabinet. The silence is priceless.


Great post. Your inferences are likely very accurate.

I am at least happy that you like the client/server direction DTV has gone. Me? Still otherwise not that happy.
It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#67 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,549 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

...I can see a day coming when every show is available for streaming in full HD. Then every show being available for on-demand isn't far behind. Things will get interesting then...

I became consciously aware of that future day the moment the Netflix app came out for iPad. Instead of my reaction being "Wow! Cool!", my reaction was "Uh-oh...", because this portends the end of conventional terrestrial television and its associated engineering, which is what my career is mostly in. The fact that anyone with $200 can waltz into Best Buy and walk out with a full 1080p-capable point-and-shoot camera is a little scary as well. Technology and the internet is creating the long good-bye for a lot of industries, mine included.

I am not that worried, because the powers that be will make this transition a pretty slow one, relatively speaking. I hope to retire long before where I work becomes a parking lot or a cloud server farm. But it is still eerily like watching that brick wall come at you in slow motion as if in a car crash.
It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#68 OFFLINE   unixguru

unixguru

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 570 posts
Joined: Jul 09, 2007

Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

I am at least happy that you like the client/server direction DTV has gone. Me? Still otherwise not that happy.


Happy is relative :lol: It's a tradeoff. I definitely like the absence of noise from my viewing location. If the performance/bugs were any worse I'd have to seriously reconsider moving all that stuff back.

Client/server could do this and do it well; it's not a flaw in the model. We are seeing weaknesses in the implementation. By using bitmaps RVU precludes flashy graphics. I understand why they went that way - wanting to keep the client as lightweight and cheap as possible. Things advance and SmartTVs and set top boxes are gaining capabilities rapidly. Perhaps RVU alliance is working on a new version that is vector-based. Unfortunately that requires brand new technology that doesn't even exist in the enterprise world (at least not with enough graphics pizzazz). Probably makes more sense to move the client/server split further down the stack - put user interaction, graphics, etc on the client and data activity on the server (ie the way most enterprise systems are built). Note that content stream is a different beast altogether.

I became consciously aware of that future day the moment the Netflix app came out for iPad. Instead of my reaction being "Wow! Cool!", my reaction was "Uh-oh...", because this portends the end of conventional terrestrial television and its associated engineering, which is what my career is mostly in. The fact that anyone with $200 can waltz into Best Buy and walk out with a full 1080p-capable point-and-shoot camera is a little scary as well. Technology and the internet is creating the long good-bye for a lot of industries, mine included.

I am not that worried, because the powers that be will make this transition a pretty slow one, relatively speaking. I hope to retire long before where I work becomes a parking lot or a cloud server farm. But it is still eerily like watching that brick wall come at you in slow motion as if in a car crash.


That's interesting. Some on this forum say it will never happen and are quite sure about it. I think it will happen and it will likely be slow due to the commingling of content and delivery. It's also possible that content breaking free may reach critical mass and then it's going to be a faster ride.

Maybe broadcast will jump to 4K and further delay things because of bandwidth constraints.

In any event it would be unwise for a youngling to pursue broadcast engineering expecting a lifetime career IMO.

#69 OFFLINE   cypherx

cypherx

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,759 posts
  • LocationPA - Berks County
Joined: Aug 27, 2010

Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

I have to say I really enjoy the technical discussion in this thread. I think we can agree that the software could evolve and use a bit of polish around the rough edges. Just the current implantation of low cost embedded hardware plus the restrictions of RVU (let's call it version 1), leave us a low common denominator.

I am pleased in the past 6 years where the state of the DVR has evolved to. Look at how many new features and even the UI changes over 6 years. It's pretty impressive if you ask me, considering most cable providers remain pretty much unchanged in those last 6 years.

Maybe in 6 more years the processing will continue to get better, maybe there will be an RVU 2.0 spec, maybe the software will be even more efficient than today. A lot has happened in the last 6 years, who's to say a lot won't happen in 6 more? I mean we will be talking about 4K ultra HD, possibly using h.265, and maybe even more horsepower set top boxes for lower cost.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---
HR24-200
H24-200


#70 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,549 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

...In any event it would be unwise for a youngling to pursue broadcast engineering expecting a lifetime career IMO.

Somewhat of an understatement, I'm afraid. My father was a orthopedic surgeon, but at the time the profession of which house calls was once a hallmark was facing socialized medicine. And doctors, who were then sole proprieters calling their own shots, have now morphed into contractors, beholden to overlords and ginormous corporations. He foresaw this and warned me off of going into medicine. Kind of wish I had anyway.

What I really wanted to be was a recording engineer. If I had done that, I probably would have been penniless by 2003. Any kid with GarageBand can approximate the infrastructure that EMI and George Martin represented to The Beatles in the 60's, assuming they have the talent. But the technology is available to everyone, and that same technology has basically demolished the record industry. If it were as simple and took just a minute or so to download a video the same way you can get a song from iTunes, the broadcasting industry might be already in the same shape. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

So no, I do not recommend opening a book store, a hi-fi store or an electric typewriter store, becoming a VCR repairman, journalist, blacksmith, or bike messenger. The internet and the increasing pace of technological change makes it hard to adapt, and is killing conventional jobs nearly everywhere in the workforce. When asked, centenarians reveal that the secret to long life is to be able to adapt and change with the environment, but the last 100 years were much easier to adapt through than the next 100 will be.

The saving grace in my case is I did not concentrate on VTR and camera bench repair or transmitter and translator technology as did some of my broadcast compatriots who are currently being pushed out. I concentrated on networking, signal compression, file-based transfer, sat and fiber transport, server-based collaborative workflow environments, and P2Air automation. That means that my skills are in industry segments that will still be here for a very long time, and have applications outside of broadcasting.

Maybe that will give me another 10 years.
It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.




spam firewall