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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DirecTV is EVIL


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262 replies to this topic

#221 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:18 AM

Commitments do not get "erroneously" extended.


They do with Tivo. No reason to think DirecTV is immune from these mistakes.

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#222 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

They do with Tivo. No reason to think DirecTV is immune from these mistakes.


With DirecTV, your commitment gets extended for specific reasons. That's it. Off hand I can think of two (maybe three) examples from all my years here at DBSTalk where someone claimed to have had their commitment "erroneously" extended and they were bogus claims.
DTV = Digital Television

#223 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

With DirecTV, your commitment gets extended for specific reasons. That's it. Off hand I can think of two (maybe three) examples from all my years here at DBSTalk where someone claimed to have had their commitment "erroneously" extended and they were bogus claims.


Same with Tivo, but it's a fact that they have "erroneously" extended at least one commitment. DirecTV has around 20,000,000 subscribers. Pretty good odds at least one has been "erroneously" extended.

#224 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:49 AM

Same with Tivo, but it's a fact that they have "erroneously" extended at least one commitment. DirecTV has around 20,000,000 subscribers. Pretty good odds at least one has been "erroneously" extended.


Which one?
DTV = Digital Television

#225 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

Which one?


Subscriber number 14,345,829. ;)

It's also pretty good odds that if I roll a die 100 times that at least one roll will result in a 5. I can't tell you which one though.

#226 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:58 AM

Subscriber number 14,345,829. ;)

It's also pretty good odds that if I roll a die 100 times that at least one roll will result in a 5. I can't tell you which one though.


Commitments get extended under specific circumstances. Claims that it has occurred under the wrong circumstances have been false. We have someone here who went on for pages and pages about it until they finally admitted that they had upgraded nearly all of their equipment.
DTV = Digital Television

#227 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

Take into account turn-over in a CSR quad, if you look at the statistics that are available all companies that run dedicated help desks in non-tech related industries are high - I would rate driectv in a non-tech industry for end user support as compared to Oracle, and companies likeas such.

Adequete training in low tech support roles is important, but it is also very hard when the turn over rate is that high, you get one group trained and maybe two months later 70 percent of the trained group is gone. Used to manage a wired carrier help desk center, we had about a 40 percent turn over rate of call center employees per year and we where one of the lower ones. The person that was trained "about a year ago" when you asked probably has been gone from that position for 2 months


I find the concept of having been trained once, some time ago, to be part of the problem. Training should essentially be continual as products, services, and policies are not static.

It's also a failure if they don't have systems in place to quickly and accurately inform the CSR of the current products, services, and policies.

And finally, it's a bigger failure when the products, services, and policies are vague. That is probably the root of most of this.

Judging by this forum, DTV doesn't score very well on these things. Certainly not the only company with these problems. But nonetheless they should be using a continual improvement process. All this stuff costs them money - er, I mean costs consumers money. I simply don't believe that they can't be fixed or that it isn't cost-effective.

#228 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

Commitments get extended under specific circumstances. Claims that it has occurred under the wrong circumstances have been false. We have someone here who went on for pages and pages about it until they finally admitted that they had upgraded nearly all of their equipment.


Of course there are incorrect claims regarding erroneously extended commitments, but that has nothing to do with the fact that some commitments have been extended when they shouldn't have. Mistakes will happen. It's not part of an evil conspiracy.

Like I said before Tivo has similar commitments and it's a fact that they have extended a commitment when they shouldn't have. Why is DirecTV so different?

#229 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

Training should essentially be continual as products, services, and policies are not static.


...it is.
DTV = Digital Television

#230 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

Of course there are incorrect claims regarding erroneously extended commitments, but that has nothing to do with the fact that some commitments have been extended when they shouldn't have. Mistakes will happen. It's not part of an evil conspiracy.


Can you provide an example of this happening? Every single one I have been able to find was a false claim.
DTV = Digital Television

#231 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:44 AM

Show me a company that delievers service to the public that does not have these issues, there is not one company in existance that does nt get bad mouthed on the anonymous method of communications medium that is called the internet and forums.

I'm not suggesting that any provider is perfect. Rather, I'm saying that asserting that DIRECTV is anywhere near permanently fixing all of the bugs in its system is a great disservice to those who continue to have problems or will have the same old problems in the future.

Declaring a bug something that you've learned to live with doesn't take away from the fact that it is still a bug.

Good enough is something you expect from a lesser carrier that isn't getting $100/month or more of your money.

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#232 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:59 AM

I find the concept of having been trained once, some time ago, to be part of the problem. Training should essentially be continual as products, services, and policies are not static.

I submit that modern support companies (or support divisions within larger companies) are taking a different approach.

The new paradigm seems to be rooted in scripting everything. Decision trees are something that are theoretically relatively easy to update and if all you have to train someone to do is ask questions and enter in a yes or no answer, you've got a system that can be handled by automation.

It is where the CSR departs from the script that things go wrong. Emphasis on getting the order (or sometimes keeping the customer) is a strong motivator to cast things in a better light than they probably should be. Failure to flesh out the tree can also create a situation where the CSR feels compelled to wing it to shorten the call or otherwise meet some metric that makes their performance look better on paper.

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#233 OFFLINE   pdxBeav

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:16 AM

Can you provide an example of this happening? Every single one I have been able to find was a false claim.


With Tivo, yes. I don't have an example with DirecTV, but it's not a leap of faith at all to think they make similar mistakes every once in a while just like every other provider out there.

#234 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

I submit that modern support companies (or support divisions within larger companies) are taking a different approach.

The new paradigm seems to be rooted in scripting everything. Decision trees are something that are theoretically relatively easy to update and if all you have to train someone to do is ask questions and enter in a yes or no answer, you've got a system that can be handled by automation.

It is where the CSR departs from the script that things go wrong. Emphasis on getting the order (or sometimes keeping the customer) is a strong motivator to cast things in a better light than they probably should be. Failure to flesh out the tree can also create a situation where the CSR feels compelled to wing it to shorten the call or otherwise meet some metric that makes their performance look better on paper.


Everything should be scripted for first-level. It should be automated. The same decision tree should also be available to customers signed-in on the web. Everything that is normal should not require a CSR. How many people pay extra to order a PPV through a CSR?

No deviations from the script should be allowed at first-level. Lots of companies have 2, 3, or more levels. If there is anything that isn't satisfied by the script then the customer should automatically be escalated. Staff appropriately. A dumb script system will of course fail here too.

"Normal" stuff being successful doesn't mean they have a good system. The measure of the system is when things aren't normal. Surely they realize it's the abnormal things that are wasting lots of money. This isn't unique to customer service - software engineering is the same way, the normal stuff is easy, the unusual is difficult and the most important.

#235 OFFLINE   CallMeCoach

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

Couldn't have said it any better myself! I loved DTV back in the day, but it just seems to be moving more towards a comcast type model now where they gouge you every chance they get.

#236 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

Mr. Guru:

Have you ever run such a system yourself?
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#237 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

I submit that modern support companies (or support divisions within larger companies) are taking a different approach.

The new paradigm seems to be rooted in scripting everything. Decision trees are something that are theoretically relatively easy to update and if all you have to train someone to do is ask questions and enter in a yes or no answer, you've got a system that can be handled by automation.

It is where the CSR departs from the script that things go wrong. Emphasis on getting the order (or sometimes keeping the customer) is a strong motivator to cast things in a better light than they probably should be. Failure to flesh out the tree can also create a situation where the CSR feels compelled to wing it to shorten the call or otherwise meet some metric that makes their performance look better on paper.


Have expierence very few problems with directv, but then I have called them maybe 6 times since 1996 to check to see if there where any deals available.

I have expierence major issues with Dish and my in-laws, fought with them for 4 months until I got sick and tired of it that I paid for the etf's and the over night shipping of their junk back to them on my dime - then they tried to claim that they never recieved the devices back - fedex priority overnight tracking proved them wrong.

#238 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

Commitments do not get "erroneously" extended.


So you never heard of all of the complaints about commitments incorrectly extended? Really? How do you get the sand out of your ears? There are many reports about commitments extended when a defective receiver was replaced.

#239 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:38 PM

So you never heard of all of the complaints about commitments incorrectly extended? Really? How do you get the sand out of your ears? There are many reports about commitments extended when a defective receiver was replaced.


Commitments get extended when you upgrade equipment, not when faulty equipment is replaced.
DTV = Digital Television

#240 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:45 PM

Commitments get extended when you upgrade equipment, not when faulty equipment is replaced.


They aren't supposed to, but it has happened on numerous occasions. I know you tow the company line with remarkable consistency, but you have to come up for air once in a while.




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