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Guest Message by DevFuse

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I have now officially seen the STUPIDEST thing ever...


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36 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

If a channel doesn't want to pay to broadcast in HD, the "sane" thing to do would be to show 4:3 footage "full screen" and letter box the 16:9 footage. That way you have a single pillar and letter box on the 16:9 and just pillars on the 4:3. Not a bunch of nested borders.

But really, why have a non HD channel in this day and age? Does anybody even have a non HD TV anymore?

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#22 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

If a channel doesn't want to pay to broadcast in HD, the "sane" thing to do would be to show 4:3 footage "full screen" and letter box the 16:9 footage. That way you have a single pillar and letter box on the 16:9 and just pillars on the 4:3. Not a bunch of nested borders.

But really, why have a non HD channel in this day and age? Does anybody even have a non HD TV anymore?

IIRC, HDTV penetration is about 65-ish%. If there are 100 million homes with TVs that means 30 million+ that still have SDTVs. That's a very significant number.

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#23 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:19 PM

If a channel doesn't want to pay to broadcast in HD, the "sane" thing to do would be to show 4:3 footage "full screen" and letter box the 16:9 footage. That way you have a single pillar and letter box on the 16:9 and just pillars on the 4:3. Not a bunch of nested borders.

But really, why have a non HD channel in this day and age? Does anybody even have a non HD TV anymore?


Where have you been hiding out? Have you met any of the guys in this thread?

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There are literally millions of directv subscribers that dont have hdtv's...let alone all the millions of other people who dont subscribe to directv, that dont have them.

#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Where have you been hiding out?

I tend to think the OP is just venting, as changing the format to crop, would removed the letterbox and leave only the pillarbars for the older 4:3 video inserted by the programer.
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#25 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

If a channel doesn't want to pay to broadcast in HD, the "sane" thing to do would be to show 4:3 footage "full screen" and letter box the 16:9 footage. That way you have a single pillar and letter box on the 16:9 and just pillars on the 4:3. Not a bunch of nested borders.

Military Channel launched their HD feed in December, DirecTV just doesn't have it yet.

#26 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

I tend to think the OP is just venting, as changing the format to crop, would removed the letterbox and leave only the pillarbars for the older 4:3 video inserted by the programer.


Not even venting lol, just thought that picture was prettyy ridiculous. Its using like 50% of the screen.

#27 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:58 PM

Not even venting lol, just thought that picture was prettyy ridiculous. Its using like 50% of the screen.

So it's move to "pretty ridiculous" from "the stupidest thing ever"?

Your receiver has a option for this case, but you seemed to either not know it, or not use it. :confused:
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#28 OFFLINE   Iceman0803

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:02 AM

So it's move to "pretty ridiculous" from "the stupidest thing ever"?

Your receiver has a option for this case, but you seemed to either not know it, or not use it. :confused:


Can't speak for the OP but to me it's not a matter of using the format options (which can actually make the picture look worse depending on the situation). It's about why some networks choose to double and in some cases triple crop their SD feed instead of leaving it at 4:3 and calling it a day. I've noticed that the SD channels that use an uncropped 4:3 feed tend to look better. Just my 2 cents.

#29 OFFLINE   lipcrkr

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:22 AM

Watching "Braveheart" on AMCHD last night was one of the stupidest things i've done in a long time. Why, because the quality of the movie looked like something from the year 1280 AD. I feel so stupid.

#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:26 AM

Can't speak for the OP but to me it's not a matter of using the format options (which can actually make the picture look worse depending on the situation). It's about why some networks choose to double and in some cases triple crop their SD feed instead of leaving it at 4:3 and calling it a day. I've noticed that the SD channels that use an uncropped 4:3 feed tend to look better. Just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Double & triple crop? :confused:

Let me break down who is doing what:
The Military channel is moving to 16:9, which in the long run is a good thing.
It's still SD on DirecTV, so it's letterbox from Discovery.
On your receiver you can select formats that can add pillarbars, send the letterbox in 4:3 to the TV [original format], or crop [and zoom] the letterbox to fill a 16:9 screen.
The Military channel inserted old 4:3 footage into the letterbox, so they added pillarbars to keep the 16:9 format.

Now if your comment/complaint is what the picture looks like on a big screen, with a scaling factor of about 10:1, the scaler you're using [and how well it does this] has a lot to do with the end product.
SD will never look as good as HD. :lol:
I can "zoom" 16:9 SD with my Sony TV and it "doesn't look that bad", but this very much is YMMV.
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#31 OFFLINE   danegerous25

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

wow, its been a long time since ive logged in but have been lurking for awhile.

This is very easy to explain, since i work at fox sports we have the same issue arise from time to time.

This channel is actively apply AFD 1010 code to there shows. This saves the channel provider from sending 2 receivers(1 HD, 1 SD) to the cable company as they just have one to control both. They broadcast in HD 24/7 but if you watch it in SD, you will see the widescreen letterbox version. the issue with this is that SD show that have applied 1010 code on them come out looking like this, which we call "postage stamped". We at Fox sometimes just leave a show with the code if it involves mixed aspect ratio( 16:9 and 4:3) but if it is straight 4:3 it is removed to prevent things such as this.

#32 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

I can "zoom" 16:9 SD with my Sony TV and it "doesn't look that bad", but this very much is YMMV.


I zoom windowframed 16:9 SD content when it is tolerable. Depends on the PQ to start with. If it is good, the zoomed picture is watchable. If it is not, I would watch the windowframed picture.

I have found that if I send true 480i (original format) on SD channels to my TV, the PQ is better, especially when zoomed.
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#33 OFFLINE   Iceman0803

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:14 AM

I'm not sure I follow you here. Double & triple crop? :confused:

Let me break down who is doing what:
The Military channel is moving to 16:9, which in the long run is a good thing.
It's still SD on DirecTV, so it's letterbox from Discovery.
On your receiver you can select formats that can add pillarbars, send the letterbox in 4:3 to the TV [original format], or crop [and zoom] the letterbox to fill a 16:9 screen.
The Military channel inserted old 4:3 footage into the letterbox, so they added pillarbars to keep the 16:9 format.

Now if your comment/complaint is what the picture looks like on a big screen, with a scaling factor of about 10:1, the scaler you're using [and how well it does this] has a lot to do with the end product.
SD will never look as good as HD. :lol:
I can "zoom" 16:9 SD with my Sony TV and it "doesn't look that bad", but this very much is YMMV.


The quoted post below explains perfectly what I was trying to explain. Sorry for the confusion.

wow, its been a long time since ive logged in but have been lurking for awhile.

This is very easy to explain, since i work at fox sports we have the same issue arise from time to time.

This channel is actively apply AFD 1010 code to there shows. This saves the channel provider from sending 2 receivers(1 HD, 1 SD) to the cable company as they just have one to control both. They broadcast in HD 24/7 but if you watch it in SD, you will see the widescreen letterbox version. the issue with this is that SD show that have applied 1010 code on them come out looking like this, which we call "postage stamped". We at Fox sometimes just leave a show with the code if it involves mixed aspect ratio( 16:9 and 4:3) but if it is straight 4:3 it is removed to prevent things such as this.



#34 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

wow, its been a long time since ive logged in but have been lurking for awhile.

This is very easy to explain, since i work at fox sports we have the same issue arise from time to time.

This channel is actively apply AFD 1010 code to there shows. This saves the channel provider from sending 2 receivers(1 HD, 1 SD) to the cable company as they just have one to control both. They broadcast in HD 24/7 but if you watch it in SD, you will see the widescreen letterbox version. the issue with this is that SD show that have applied 1010 code on them come out looking like this, which we call "postage stamped". We at Fox sometimes just leave a show with the code if it involves mixed aspect ratio( 16:9 and 4:3) but if it is straight 4:3 it is removed to prevent things such as this.


But if that's the case, that the Military Channel is only submitting an HD feed with AFD coding to the MSOs, then why don't they just switch the AFD code to 1001 when broadcasting such up-converted SD program material for an entire show so DirecTV's down-converters (assuming they even respond to the AFD codes) will know to properly center-cut the image to prevent window-boxing for distribution on their SD channel?

#35 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:17 AM

Again, it's window boxing. If it were a 16:9 SD channel, it would be fine. It's a program produced with 16:9 in mind, but being broadcast on a channel formatted for 4:3.
DTV = Digital Television

#36 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:57 AM

But if that's the case, that the Military Channel is only submitting an HD feed with AFD coding to the MSOs, then why don't they just switch the AFD code to 1001 when broadcasting such up-converted SD program material for an entire show so DirecTV's down-converters (assuming they even respond to the AFD codes) will know to properly center-cut the image to prevent window-boxing for distribution on their SD channel?

If it was the same program I watched, it was 16:9 with [short] inserts of 4:3 video clips.
If it was "zoomed" to fill the screen, these inserts wouldn't be any different than 4:3 commercials on an HD program.
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#37 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

If it was the same program I watched, it was 16:9 with [short] inserts of 4:3 video clips.
If it was "zoomed" to fill the screen, these inserts wouldn't be any different than 4:3 commercials on an HD program.


Oh ... OK;

I thought the TS was complaining about an *entire program* telecast on the Milt. CH. in window-box this way. Which would of course mean letter-box on the top and bottom of the image, with double width pillar bars on the sides on a 16:9 HDTV.




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