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The Following


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182 replies to this topic

#81 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

Really? The FCC has no specific programming "time limitation" on assessing gore, but tends to focus on prime time and encourage "adult" programming during later hours. Nothing new there for decades - nor "made up".


Not for "gore" they do not, unless you mean Al Gore. They do for sexual content, but not "gore".

Programming standards are programming standards...they may be red or green...but they're all apples.


Not true, you can't compare reality to fiction.

It would seem equally clear that those who promote this kind of programming are "imposing" their beliefs of acceptability - two sides on a coin.


Not true at all. Again, you don't have to watch it. No one is forcing you or imposing anything on you, you have a choice. However if you get the show cancelled that forces us to stop watching and takes our choice away.
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#82 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

Not true at all. Again, you don't have to watch it. No one is forcing you or imposing anything on you, you have a choice. However if you get the show canceled that forces us to stop watching and takes our choice away.

Yes...the FCC can control content for a variety of reasons, not just sexual in nature. Fiction or not, what is depicted on television is under their jurisdiction. As stated before, choices are just fine.

OK - we'll just have to agree then to disagree as to what constitutes mindless violence and gore, and what is constitutes "entertainment".

That's why remotes have a channel change button.

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#83 OFFLINE   Galaxie6411

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

I a going to pay attention to all this "gore" on this weeks episode. I think last week they actually didn't show very much, had a lot of cut away scenes or very quick shots. The woman who stabbed herself, IIRC they showed before and a quick shot after but not the actual act, same with the dog room, a few quick shots where you couldn't distinguish anything and the quick gotchya with the dog moving. I think people are remembering a lot more than really happened which means it is a very well shot show. I see tonites is PG13 V, L, SC, D--which is pretty standard for most nightly crime shows it seems.

#84 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

Yes...the FCC can control content for a variety of reasons, not just sexual in nature. Fiction or not, what is depicted on television is under their jurisdiction. As stated before, choices are just fine.

OK - we'll just have to agree then to disagree as to what constitutes mindless violence and gore, and what is constitutes "entertainment".

That's why remotes have a channel change button.

Enjoy.

If you think the one episode of "The Following" we've seen constitutes "mindless violence and gore" then I assume you categorize "Criminal Minds" and at least some other crime procedurals on broadcast TV that way.

There really is no getting around the idea that a serial killer who slowly drains people's blood and cuts off their eyelids so that have to watch (the plot on last week's "Criminal Minds") is not as bad as "The Following" pilot.

"Criminal Minds" is on at 9 pm Wednesdays and pulls about 12 million viewers even when up against "American Idol."

Fox has no scripted TV that pulls that many viewers and so far in this decade is lucky to get 25% of that number for its scifi offerings. New episodes of "Bones" at 8 pm Monday pull about 8.5 million viewers which will be the lead in to "The Following" and seems to me to offer some rather sickening remains and gore.

I still think the only problem "The Following" premier created for people is the focus on the eye.

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#85 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

..."The Following" is a psychological crime procedural of sorts with an overarching story arc about a cult of followers of a serial killer, with all the humor and charm of "Criminal Minds" (also on at 9 pm on a broadcast network) and the warm appeal of the Manson Family.

For Fox I see it more like "Prison Break" in that they're trying to get an audience for a Monday time slot with something not too different than what wins time slots for CBS.

Apparently some sensitive folks think its far more violent than "Prison Break." They either didn't watch Fox on Mondays from the fall of 2005 through the spring of 2009 or have short memories as "Prison Break" won a People's Choice Award in 2006.

Admittedly this show is likely to have a few more Theodore "T-Bag" Bagwell's, that lovable, cunning, violent, and manipulative psychopath...

Well put.

I think the difference here is the level of gratuity rather than the level of violence, what is perceived appropriate or not appropriate. The violence on Prison Break, or even on Criminal Minds, which has devolved into psycho of the week (I hung with it until all the hot chicks left) seems almost appropriate for the subject matter, even if just as or even more violent. Others may say that the subject matter on The Following isn't exactly a Disney movie, but for some reason I can't quite put my finger on the violence seems gratuitous, purposeful rather than incidental, and shoehorned in for cheap shock value. Sorry, that's a turn-off.

And I freely admit that humans are violent by nature; just google the crusades or the inquisition to get an idea. Man's inhumanity to man is legendary and all-pervasive. The purges in Russia, aggression by Japan against China in the 30's, our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and Vietnam), waterboarding one person 180+ times just to get revenge on Bin Laden; we have a very violent track record. Sandy Hook. Aurora. Countless daily shootings all over the USA. Who but humans could come up with crucifixion, the iron maiden, or the anal pear? NFL football, anyone? The Big Game is right around the corner.

And I also admit that the high points for me in The Sopranos, were always when someone got whacked. Endlessly entertaining otherwise, but peaking at a moment when a mob guy has his head rolled over by an SUV that somehow came out of park at a gas station. We love that stuff.

But on our own terms; it has to be appropriate to the situation, and not gratuitous. I think The Following has not yet learned where that line is; either that, or they damned well know where it is and are intent on crossing it regularly.

And cleverness or talent buys you license. By that I mean that if you do this cleverly or with talented writing and direction, the same level of violence seems appropriate where if you do it ham-handedly and without much talent or cleverness, that exact same level of violence automatically becomes inappropriate. Like stand-up comedy, it's all in the delivery, all in the timing as to what is funny and how funny. The joke is the same whether you are Chris Rock who can kill on stage, or Michael Richards who gets killed for what he says on stage. Kevin Williamson or whatever his name is might know how to write and produce teen angst for the CW such as Dawson's Creek, but just maybe he's in over his head this time.

Edited by TomCat, 28 January 2013 - 07:07 PM.

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#86 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:59 PM

That's why remotes have a channel change button.


That's been my point the entire time. If you don't like The Following then don't watch The Following but don't rob us of the opportunity to watch The Following because you don't like it.
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#87 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:39 AM

That's been my point the entire time. If you don't like The Following then don't watch The Following but don't rob us of the opportunity to watch The Following because you don't like it.

But that is exactly how TV works. People don't watch a show they don't like; ratings drop; the show is cancelled, and the folks who do like it are "robbed".

Deal with it.

OK, episode 2, not really any better. I do like the cast, but they aren't given much to work with, and the production is hacky and workmanlike at best, far from expert. IMHO, to be successful, a show like this needs to create a mood, an emotional resonance that stays with the viewer after the show is over. They seem to not know how to do that. They are simply filling space between the commercial breaks.

I predict FOX will run out the 15 episodes in order as they planned, but that will be it. If the ratings go down very far they will probably rest it for a couple weeks in February, and if they really go down they will push it to summer as a burn off. Terra Nova? Better. Alcatraz? A little better. The Chicago Code? Much better. All had strong leads and a great cast; all of them got the "mood" element just right; all were cancelled after 1. I don't see much hope for a show that is half as good as any of those. FOX is going in the wrong direction.

Touch is another clinker, and I could have predicted that a show by Tim Kring, who let Heroes completely disintegrate into ruin, would not have the ability to succeed, and it won't. Crossing Jordan must have been a fluke.

The best thing they could have done? Get Trent Reznor to do the music. Now that guy knows how to create a mood. Check The Social Network and The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo (a movie whose emotional resonance is still with me months later) if you aren't sure. If nothing else, check Reznor's version of Led Zep classic "Immigrant Song" that opens the movie

One more without improving and I'm out for good.

Edited by TomCat, 29 January 2013 - 06:08 AM.

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#88 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:40 AM

If FOX is smart they'll make it a 15 episode mini-series and end it.

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#89 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:46 AM

If FOX is smart they'll make it a 15 episode mini-series and end it.

Done and done. Don't agree? Hide and watch. :)
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#90 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:44 AM

But that is exactly how TV works. People don't watch a show they don't like; ratings drop; the show is cancelled, and the folks who do like it are "robbed".


Yes, but that's what I'd consider "Natural Selection". When enough people call and complain and the network caves is not "Natural Selection", it's someone else deciding what I should and shouldn't watch based on their beliefs.
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#91 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

If FOX is smart they'll make it a 15 episode mini-series and end it.


That probably would not be a bad thing. It seems like shows tend to get better when they know when the end is.
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#92 OFFLINE   TMan

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

I thought they already planned to run this straight through, with no "weeks off" like most series? I may be confusing that point with an unrelated program, though.
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#93 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

Yes, but that's what I'd consider "Natural Selection". When enough people call and complain and the network caves is not "Natural Selection", it's someone else deciding what I should and shouldn't watch based on their beliefs.

But that is exactly how TV does NOT work. Very few call and complain, and if they do, it has very little effect.

I wanted enough people to believe in Leverage for a 6th and Alphas for a 3rd season. But they voted, with their remotes, by not watching 5 and 2, and that is the only reason why there will be no 6 and 3. It had nothing to do with people calling up and moaning about the subject matter, and everything to do with them abandoning the shows. And so, they're gone.

There is the rare occurence where people complain, but it tends to generate buzz more than generate disinterest in the show, and disinterest is exactly what kills shows, and buzz is exactly what gets new viewers to sample them in the first place. Plenty of uproar over the nip slip at the SuperBowl, but has that done anything at all to the ratings other than goose them? No, it hasn't. Howard Stern said the only lesson he took away from that was to not tune away to the Lingerie Bowl during half-time. Howard knows.

If there is an outcry over the violence in The Following that can only help it. If there is not an outcry, that only contributes to the level of disinterest. Worrying about something you have no control over indicates that God may decide to give you something to really worry about. Relax; enjoy the show if you like it; watch something else if you don't. The chips will fall where the chips will fall, and you might get a second season, or you might get "robbed". Just stop trying to blame others for what happens, because even though they are why it will happen, they are allowed to watch or not watch. They are doing what comes naturally. Who and how many watch is nature's way, TV's law of the jungle, not how many moan about it on a website. We are not going to suffer through a crap show just to pump up ratings so that you get a second season, after all.
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#94 OFFLINE   oldschoolecw

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:44 AM

If FOX is smart they'll make it a 15 episode mini-series and end it.


I thought they said during the intro or maybe it was the credits of the first episode last week that they wanted us to join them for the next 14 weeks:)

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#95 ONLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:55 AM

But that is exactly how TV does NOT work. Very few call and complain, and if they do, it has very little effect.


I'm sure the people who put together "The Playboy Club" would disagree with you.
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#96 OFFLINE   litex2x

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

If FOX is smart they'll make it a 15 episode mini-series and end it.


I agree I wasn't quite so impressed with last night's episode. A show like this needs to rely on its writing to capitivate viewers. Last night's episode was boring and predictable.

Edited by litex2x, 29 January 2013 - 10:16 AM.


#97 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:42 AM

I thought they said during the intro or maybe it was the credits of the first episode last week that they wanted us to join them for the next 14 weeks:)

They did, but by then maybe the first of 15 was something we had already joined them for. Kevin Bacon claimed 15 on The Daily Show, and that they are shooting #11. My best guess is that he probably is close enough to the show to have good information. If I was getting paid 6 figures per episode, I think I would have done the math. There is also something called a "double run", typically used to burn off shows or position remaining eps strategically outside the sweeps weeks; 14 weeks does not translate directly into 14 eps. Having your second hour's leadin being another ep of the same show is a realistic expectation that you may be able to carry over the audience; assuming this gives it event status or gravitas isn't quite as realistic. Many shows start with a 2-ep premiere back to back because if a show is going to tank quickly, the first night will get the highest ratings meaning they can sell more spots. And FOX is fond of this idea; every season of 24 started that way, and they do it regularly with Bones and Hell's Kitchen/Kitchen Nightmares.

Edited by TomCat, 29 January 2013 - 10:55 AM.

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#98 OFFLINE   Reaper

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

I watched the first episode and LOVED it! I haven't caught up with the rest on my DVR yet.

#99 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

Well, the Following just lost one, me.
Definitely do not like it.

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#100 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:34 AM

I agree I wasn't quite so impressed with last night's episode. A show like this needs to rely on its writing to capitivate viewers. Last night's episode was boring and predictable.

Add me to the list. Not enough story line for a miniseries or full season, IMO. I think it would have made a fine Bones or Criminal Minds 2-parter, but that's about it.

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