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OK, so what is fast/slow to you?


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60 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

I think the issue has been kicked around since I first came to the forum. :lol:

For me I start with how quick my Sony XBR2 will change channels from an antenna, which is 2 sec [measured with one thousand, two thousand, .....]

With native off, the DirecTV receivers take 3 sec.
With native on, changing resolutions is 6-8 secs. :(

I just checked this with component and native on, changing resolutions was only 3 sec. Seems like the HDMI handshake is causing a 4-5 sec delay. :(

Now for some of the other buttons:
I started with my HR24-500, and both list & guide took ≈ 1 sec from press to being on screen.
Moving to my HR34, this was ≈ 2 sec.
The new genie was ≈ 1 sec.

"Generally" pressing menu take a bit to load, as the first page needs to populate with the show clip art. Once there, it seems to move quickly on my 24, a bit slower "maybe" on my 34, and about the same as the 24 with the new genie.

Comparing the guide between all of these [once it's up] is hard pressed to see a big difference, as my custom guides vary between these three DVRs, but range from 90-120 channels. It's very close to 3 sec to channel down [and hold] through the whole guide and get back to the channel I started on.

Well this is what mine do right now.


I was surprised to find the HDMI slowing down my channel changing as much as it is.
A.K.A VOS

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#2 OFFLINE   NR4P

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

To answer your question,
1 sec is fast.
2 sec is slow.

My HR24-500 is 2 secs to bring up List or Guide on the first attempt after powerup.
But if I repeat the test a few seconds later, they are much faster, 1 sec. each.
Must be some caching going on.

Tried my HR24-200 connected with component vs. HDMI cables and same as above.

Then tried the HR34-700 and there was something similar.
The first press of List or Guide was about 2.5 secs and then the second ones of each was 1.5 secs, approximately. Slightly faster on second attempts like the HR24's but not quite as fast.

#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:53 PM

"yeah", the first attempt can be slower, so I brushed the cobwebs off first, and then timed mine.
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#4 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

Fast is not having to think about navigating around the guide or menus.

Fast is being able to hit ‘Guide’ hitting arrow down 4 times then the right arrow 5 times and actually ending up in the CORRECT place without having to make ‘corrective’ button pushes to get there.

Fast is being able to hit ‘R’ twice to setup a series recording from the guide and not having to wait to see it worked or having to make multiple tries.

Fast is navigating around a 6 year old Dish Network 622 or a 722k recording 4 HD streams and thinking ‘Damn, I wish my HR24 was that fast!’.

Fast is hopefully a DirecTV HR44.

Slow is a DirecTV HR21/22/23 and sometimes an HR24.

Slow is waiting for the HR44 to be available to us ‘normal’ people.

Slow is having to slow down to keep from having to throw the remote.

Slow is accidently deleting the wrong thing because just before you hit ‘delete’ the receiver catches up and moves down one more line.

#5 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

I was thinking of you Mike, as I started this thread.

"Honestly" I doubt any of these will meet your expectations.

You've always had some misskeying, that I haven't.

Maybe it's because I adjust, but really the 34 has been the most noticeable for waiting.

My HR21-200 was new and got retired for my [new] HR24, so this was before the HD GUI. I had to slow down my button pushing for it compared to the HR20, but it was ever so slight, and on the order of 1/2 a sec.
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#6 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:08 AM

While speed of operation was not one of the considerations for my recent shift back to Dish, it is very nice to see everything happen right now, right as I push a button! I had gotten used to the speed of my HR24s and it was fine for most functions, but very slow coming out of a recording.

And of course, on occasion, it just ignored the remote for a short while.

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#7 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:10 AM

I was thinking of you Mike, as I started this thread.

"Honestly" I doubt any of these will meet your expectations.

You've always had some misskeying, that I haven't.

Maybe it's because I adjust, but really the 34 has been the most noticeable for waiting.

My HR21-200 was new and got retired for my [new] HR24, so this was before the HD GUI. I had to slow down my button pushing for it compared to the HR20, but it was ever so slight, and on the order of 1/2 a sec.


I was thinking of you thinking of me when you started this thread!:lol:

Do you include the HR44 when you 'doubt any of these will meet your expectations'? That's not good news.:eek2:

Years ago when I had the 622 from Dish, I never even thought about the speed. Didn't even realize they were fast or slow - just used them. I was hoping that a 7 year newer HR44 from DirecTV would at least be able to come close to what Dish Network did so many years ago.:(

I'm mostly ok with the speed of the HR24 most of the time. They do occasionally pause for no apparent reason but are light-speed ahead of the dreadful HR22s I used to have.

I'm concerned that you say 'the 34 has been the most noticeable for waiting'. Do you mean even more than your old HR21?

Here's to a future 'Fast' DVR from DirecTV.:)

#8 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Slow is accidently deleting the wrong thing because just before you hit ‘delete’ the receiver catches up and moves down one more line.


Mike I had this Exact Thing happen and it Deleted a Folder of Jay Leno Shows (143 Recordings to be Exact) and there was Nothing I could do. Couldn't Cancel out of it even though there is a Cancel Option there but it doesn't work!!! :nono2:

I also Do Not Channel Surf as I either Select the Guide and then Page Down to the Show I want and then Hit Enter or I Watch Recorded Stuff which is really why I have 7 DVRs so I can Record and Watch What I Want When I Want To Watch It!!! :lol:
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#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:21 AM

I was thinking of you thinking of me when you started this thread!:lol:

Do you include the HR44 when you 'doubt any of these will meet your expectations'? That's not good news.:eek2:

Years ago when I had the 622 from Dish, I never even thought about the speed. Didn't even realize they were fast or slow - just used them. I was hoping that a 7 year newer HR44 from DirecTV would at least be able to come close to what Dish Network did so many years ago.:(

I'm mostly ok with the speed of the HR24 most of the time. They do occasionally pause for no apparent reason but are light-speed ahead of the dreadful HR22s I used to have.

I'm concerned that you say 'the 34 has been the most noticeable for waiting'. Do you mean even more than your old HR21?

Here's to a future 'Fast' DVR from DirecTV.:)

  • Fast is not having to think about navigating around the guide or menus.
  • Fast is being able to hit ‘Guide’ hitting arrow down 4 times then the right arrow 5 times and actually ending up in the CORRECT place without having to make ‘corrective’ button pushes to get there.
  • Fast is being able to hit ‘R’ twice to setup a series recording from the guide and not having to wait to see it worked or having to make multiple tries.
  • Slow is having to slow down to keep from having to throw the remote.
  • Slow is accidently deleting the wrong thing because just before you hit ‘delete’ the receiver catches up and moves down one more line.

  • I'm not sure how much I think about navigating through my guide. OK, maybe I decide if I want to go up or down. At times I might want to go to the right.
  • "down 4, over 5" and every time be where I want? Not always, but I'm using 4-5 different boxes, that react slightly different.
  • Most of my pressing 'R' works, but a few days ago with the new Genie, it didn't.
  • The last time I had the urge to throw my remote was using the U-Who Motorola DVR.
  • In six years, I can't remember ever deleting the wrong recording. "Maybe" it's happened once. :shrug: Last night I was about to press the red button, but noticed I was one line above where I wanted to be. I guess I've learned to look, and with the removal of the double dash delete, I have a second chance/place to check what I'm about to do.
My HR21, as I've posted before, was never as slow as some others post, so the 34 is/was more noticeable.

The new Genie comes with a new remote, so there's another factor to get used/adjust to. It's not uncommon for me to overshoot, be it from the remote or speed of the box.
A.K.A VOS

#10 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

Not sure if I'm answering the question you meant to ask, but my biggest impressions of fast or slow come from remote responsiveness. When I push a button, how long before something happens? If it's too long I'll wonder if the remote push was received.
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#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

Not sure if I'm answering the question you meant to ask, but my biggest impressions of fast or slow come from remote responsiveness. When I push a button, how long before something happens? If it's too long I'll wonder if the remote push was received.

So "please wait" is a sign? :lol:
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#12 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Yes, in my own personal world there should never be a please wait.
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#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

Yes, in my own personal world there should never be a please wait.

You'd hate U-Who and their spinning circle then. ;)
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#14 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

Mike I had this Exact Thing happen and it Deleted a Folder of Jay Leno Shows (143 Recordings to be Exact) and there was Nothing I could do...

Well, there is one thing you could do (other than unnecessarily Capitalizing Every Other Word), which would be to pull the power plug. Odds are that if you did that quickly, over a hundred of those shows would still be there. But then if they were Jay Leno, I'd just say "screw it" and enjoy the extra space. There is a slight risk, but very slight, that this would torpedo everything. But not likely.

What is fast or slow is relative; anyone with a DISH history considers DTV DVRs glacially slow. To me, anything that does not respond in half a second is slow, and anything that does not respond in time for the user to wonder whether he should push that button again is absolutely unacceptable. As far as HDMI handshake and possible associated rez changes, that won't get any better; we have to live with it.

Same with channel acquisition, even if handshake is sped up with native "off" and a fixed rez. Channel acquisition has other latency, but most of it is due to the decoder needing a full I frame before it can figure out how to decode; it can't make sense of a bunch of P and B frames since they are referenced to the I frame, and without that the Ps and Bs are pure gobbledegook to the decoder. Depending upon when you push the button means you randomly enter the GOP, and the I frame can be the next frame, or in the case of MPEG4 AVC, as much as 200 frames later, which can mean anywhere from immediate results to results nearly 7 seconds later. That's like steering a battleship; hard to port now gets it to finally turn later on that same day.

The thinking is that DTV mercifully adds an I frame every second or so, which makes the channel aquisition time (not including other latency) anywhere from immediate to a second later, averaging a half second. The other latency extends this for another second or so. DTV also takes the HDD r/w latency out of the equation.

What they can't seem to do is program the OS to not be sluggish. DTV and DISH hardware is technically pretty much the same; they use essentially the same off-the-shelf parts. But DISH knows how to make the DVR snappy, while DTV hasn't a clue. That actually could change. Sadly, not as yet.
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#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:49 PM

Same with channel acquisition, even if handshake is sped up with native "off" and a fixed rez. Channel acquisition has other latency, but most of it is due to the decoder needing a full I frame before it can figure out how to decode; it can't make sense of a bunch of P and B frames since they are referenced to the I frame, and without that the Ps and Bs are pure gobbledegook to the decoder. Depending upon when you push the button means you randomly enter the GOP, and the I frame can be the next frame, or in the case of MPEG4 AVC, as much as 200 frames later, which can mean anywhere from immediate results to results nearly 7 seconds later.

I know you're better at this than I am, but isn't the 7 secs off by a factor of 2, and if so, it matched what the tune time is here with native off [HDMI] or native on with component.
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#16 OFFLINE   JeffBowser

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

Thanks, Mike. You saved me a lot of typing. I agree with your assessment. Especially the double "R", ugh, that's maddening.

Fast is not having to think about navigating around the guide or menus.

Fast is being able to hit ‘Guide’ hitting arrow down 4 times then the right arrow 5 times and actually ending up in the CORRECT place without having to make ‘corrective’ button pushes to get there.

Fast is being able to hit ‘R’ twice to setup a series recording from the guide and not having to wait to see it worked or having to make multiple tries.

Fast is navigating around a 6 year old Dish Network 622 or a 722k recording 4 HD streams and thinking ‘Damn, I wish my HR24 was that fast!’.

Fast is hopefully a DirecTV HR44.

Slow is a DirecTV HR21/22/23 and sometimes an HR24.

Slow is waiting for the HR44 to be available to us ‘normal’ people.

Slow is having to slow down to keep from having to throw the remote.

Slow is accidently deleting the wrong thing because just before you hit ‘delete’ the receiver catches up and moves down one more line.


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#17 OFFLINE   JeffBowser

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

For me, I don't much care how slow the actual channel change is. I can understand why, with all the handshaking and format changes (that I intentionally leave enabled). It's the command, guide, and menu responsiveness that bugs me. I HATE pressing a remote button and being left wondering for a time frame if it will execute or not, was it received or not.

I know you're better at this than I am, but isn't the 7 secs off by a factor of 2, and if so, it matched what the tune time is here with native off [HDMI] or native on with component.


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#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

For me, I don't much care how slow the actual channel change is. I can understand why, with all the handshaking and format changes (that I intentionally leave enabled). It's the command, guide, and menu responsiveness that bugs me. I HATE pressing a remote button and being left wondering for a time frame if it will execute or not, was it received or not.

This is part of the mystery, as 99.9% of my remote commands respond within 1-2 sec, but the native on HDMI resolution change of 6+ secs really bugs me.
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#19 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

As I'm sure is the case with others, speed has always been a relative thing for me, based on the state of technology at the time. My first 8086 PC seemed plenty fast, until I got my first 286 machine, etc., etc.

Right now, the H25 is my reference STB. Any DirecTV box that's not as responsive is "slow" to me.
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#20 OFFLINE   Delroy E Walleye

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

Fast for me is a mid 1980s Panasonic console TV (with digital tuning) connected to analog cable. Acquisition was as fast as the ch up/down or direct digit buttons could be pushed! A channel surfer's dream.




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