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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Will DirecTV move to H.265?


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148 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:10 PM

The migration driven by squeeze more channels per mux/tpn. As HD-Lite.

It would be silly to procure it as willing to make picture better for us, customers. :D

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#42 OFFLINE   charlie460

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:20 PM

All the new HD adds are nice, but it sucks that PQ is being sacrificed to squeeze more channels in per TPN... When will the new sat be operational?

#43 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

2014. So you're saying that you can tell the difference between a channel that is on a TPN with extra channels than another (and isn't related to the source)?

#44 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

All the new HD adds are nice, but it sucks that PQ is being sacrificed to squeeze more channels in per TPN... When will the new sat be operational?


Really? PQ is NOT being sacrificed. The more channels per transponder were because of improvements in encoding, not in picture loss.

No one has shown a degradation in PQ and we have a lot of very picky people around here.
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#45 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

Really? PQ is NOT being sacrificed. The more channels per transponder were because of improvements in encoding, not in picture loss.

No one has shown a degradation in PQ and we have a lot of very picky people around here.


:D

#46 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

...you're behind the times. Many networks are using MPEG-4 for distribution and have been for awhile.


Yes, the funny part is that fios, which has an unassailed reputation for not doing anything to the feeds is actually transcoding from MPEG4 to MPEG2 for several channels, including HBO.
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#47 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:02 PM

Not true. They compress it further after they get it from the broadcaster. Same way movies are shot in like 8K resolution and then reprocessed to 1080p.

Please define what you mean by compression. They do transcode to MPEG4 for the channels not already in MPEG4. That does compress but does not mean that data is lost.

But your example was a downrez example. So I am confused.

It has been shown that DirecTV is NOT downrezzing HD.
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#48 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

Please define what you mean by compression. They do transcode to MPEG4 for the channels not already in MPEG4. That does compress but does not mean that data is lost.

But your example was a downrez example. So I am confused.

It has been shown that DirecTV is NOT downrezzing HD.


:D

#49 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

Please define what you mean by compression. They do transcode to MPEG4 for the channels not already in MPEG4. That does compress but does not mean that data is lost.

But your example was a downrez example. So I am confused.

It has been shown that DirecTV is NOT downrezzing HD.


Yes, bad example :). A transcode compression would be more like ripping a dual layer DVD down to 4.7GB so you can fit it on a single layer. Same resolution, just compressed to 75% or whatever of the original vs. a 1:1 rip.

Or like when somebody posts a movie online and its a 300MB file for a 2hr movie.

At a certain compression ratio (same resolution), you start to see artifacts.

Can somebody in the know actual confirm that DirecTV is passing on the broadcast AS IS without compressing it further to save bandwidth?

TBH, I would find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. I can't imagine that DirecTV gets the same quality feed from NBC or FOX or CNN that we get in our houses. I suspect it is much higher quality and compressed down for broadcast.

#50 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

Yes, bad example :). A transcode compression would be more like ripping a dual layer DVD down to 4.7GB so you can fit it on a single layer. Same resolution, just compressed to 75% or whatever of the original vs. a 1:1 rip.

Or like when somebody posts a movie online and its a 300MB file for a 2hr movie.

At a certain compression ratio (same resolution), you start to see artifacts.

Can somebody in the know actual confirm that DirecTV is passing on the broadcast AS IS without compressing it further to save bandwidth?

TBH, I would find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. I can't imagine that DirecTV gets the same quality feed from NBC or FOX or CNN that we get in our houses. I suspect it is much higher quality and compressed down for broadcast.

You better ask me how to win a million in lotto ? :)

#51 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Ok, guys... found some stats to "back up my claim" :)

BluRay quality is typically around 40Mb/s and DirecTV HD is around 8Mb/s.

Found that info right here on DbsTalk :).

So what I was saying, was DirecTV probably gets it from the broadcaster in "BluRay quality" and compresses to 25% or whatever.

#52 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:50 PM

...you're behind the times. Many networks are using MPEG-4 for distribution and have been for awhile.

HBO completed there transition in October 2009.

That being said, it is entirely likely that one method is more "recompressable" than the other.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#53 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

Found that info right here on DbsTalk :).

You should have offered a link to it to establish the context. Things may (or may not) be different now with six channels/TP.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#54 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

You should have offered a link to it to establish the context. Things may (or may not) be different now with six channels/TP.


http://www.dbstalk.c...720#post2460720

Its from 2010, but...

#55 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

Yes, bad example :). A transcode compression would be more like ripping a dual layer DVD down to 4.7GB so you can fit it on a single layer. Same resolution, just compressed to 75% or whatever of the original vs. a 1:1 rip.

Or like when somebody posts a movie online and its a 300MB file for a 2hr movie.

At a certain compression ratio (same resolution), you start to see artifacts.

Can somebody in the know actual confirm that DirecTV is passing on the broadcast AS IS without compressing it further to save bandwidth?

TBH, I would find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. I can't imagine that DirecTV gets the same quality feed from NBC or FOX or CNN that we get in our houses. I suspect it is much higher quality and compressed down for broadcast.


I understood what you meant, it just got lost a bit with that example. :)
DTV = Digital Television

#56 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

Ok, guys... found some stats to "back up my claim" :)

BluRay quality is typically around 40Mb/s and DirecTV HD is around 8Mb/s.

Found that info right here on DbsTalk :).

So what I was saying, was DirecTV probably gets it from the broadcaster in "BluRay quality" and compresses to 25% or whatever.


You are not understanding encoding at all. Mere size does not tell you what you are getting but no one is going to tell you that DirecTV or ANY broadcast is at Blu Ray level, anyway.

You compared transcoding to ripping to a CD. Ripping is a sampling technique. Coding is not a sampling technique. It is a method of maintaining data in a more efficient form.

It is more like running WinZip to save size on your disk drive. WinZip stores the data differently to compact it but the data is there. I am not saying that transcoding is perfect but it is more akin to zip than it is to rip.

Edit: Besides, your claim fails. Everyone agrees that quality got much better when DirecTV went from MPEG2 to MPEG4, which allowed them to better utilize the bandwidth and get more data to your screen.
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#57 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

:D

yeah, like WinZip ... sure my butt ...

to your please - lecture us as H.263 slices (I,B,P) transforming into H.264 ... don't hesitate to details each little step

#58 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

:D

yeah, like WinZip ... sure my butt ...

to your please - lecture us as H.263 slices (I,B,P) transforming into H.264 ... don't hesitate to details each little step


Closer than to rip. That was the point.
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#59 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

:D

yeah, like WinZip ... sure my butt ...

to your please - lecture us as H.263 slices (I,B,P) transforming into H.264 ... don't hesitate to details each little step


What?
DTV = Digital Television

#60 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:24 PM

And yet they show up on directv which only recodes and does not dowrez and fios which does neither. Actually, some feeds are mpeg4 from the source and directv does nothing to them.

Because most everyone (except uVerse) uses adaptive bitrate encoding to squeeze multiple channels into a multiplex, I think it unlikely that any carrier is passing a signal straight through.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK





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