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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Will DirecTV move to H.265?


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148 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

What are you basing this conclusion on?



I live in a substantial Comcast footprint and DirecTV's On Demand product is very competitive with it. I'd say DirecTV's might even be better after their HBO On Demand updates last year.


I'm basing it on the embarrassment that DirecTV calls On-Demand. Obviously I don't have any inside information.... I feel their pain - it's not like it is easy when you're dealing with a national distribution system rather than locally like cable... But they will have to change something if they want to keep calling it OnDemand and want to go head-to-head with cable OnDemand.

DirecTV can increase content - although they have a long way to go but the killer is how instant cable is.

DirecTV has more of a Demand Now-Watch Later system that requires a decent Internet connection to be usable at all.

With cable - at least around here - changing between OnDemand content is darn near as fast as changing channels. With Comcast I could take a quick look at 10 different OnDemand shows before I can get one OnDemand from DirecTV to start playing.... And that's with 50/5meg Internet speed.

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#102 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:18 PM

What is better about cables OnDemand that would be made better on DIRECTV by reducing PQ? Yes, cable OnDemand may have more content and HD content then DIRECTV but I don't see how reducing PQ on DIRECTV would help that? When I had cable a few years ago (Comcast) I didn't think it was that great since every now and then when I selected a program to view I couldn't because all the channels on my node for OnDemand were in use. DIRECTV's on Demand service isn't as instant as cable but with the new "Watch Now" feature HD program start playing within 10 seconds.


Speed is the thing... If they want to keep up they'll need to use the satellite link to supply content rather than the users Internet connection. That will lead to yet another bandwidth crunch and the necessary evil coming home again....

#103 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:23 PM

I'm basing it on the embarrassment that DirecTV calls On-Demand. Obviously I don't have any inside information.... I feel their pain - it's not like it is easy when you're dealing with a national distribution system rather than locally like cable... But they will have to change something if they want to keep calling it OnDemand and want to go head-to-head with cable OnDemand.

DirecTV can increase content - although they have a long way to go but the killer is how instant cable is.

DirecTV has more of a Demand Now-Watch Later system that requires a decent Internet connection to be usable at all.

With cable - at least around here - changing between OnDemand content is darn near as fast as changing channels. With Comcast I could take a quick look at 10 different OnDemand shows before I can get one OnDemand from DirecTV to start playing.... And that's with 50/5meg Internet speed.


Sounds like an issue on your end. On Demand with DirecTV allows you to watch immediately as well.
DTV = Digital Television

#104 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:23 PM

I'm not saying DirecTV is evil if they lower the picture quality.... They are not a charity and they'll do what make sense for them financially. It is just my opinion that they will, in the future, lower quality again to save bandwidth - bandwidth=money.

There is a storm brewing for all the providers - more and more people - especially young people are not subscribing to any of them. That is going to hurt the bottom line and DirecTV will need to adjust to survive.

#105 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

I'm not saying DirecTV is evil if they lower the picture quality.... They are not a charity and they'll do what make sense for them financially. It is just my opinion that they will, in the future, lower quality again to save bandwidth - bandwidth=money.

There is a storm brewing for all the providers - more and more people - especially young people are not subscribing to any of them. That is going to hurt the bottom line and DirecTV will need to adjust to survive.


...yet you haven't offered a valid reason why there would be a bandwidth or capacity issue.
DTV = Digital Television

#106 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

Sounds like an issue on your end. On Demand with DirecTV allows you to watch immediately as well.


Obviously it is a problem on my end...:nono2:

My problem is I don't owe DirecTV anything and can point out their shortcomings. DirecTV can't be perfect or the best at everything there is....

I like DirecTV - I am a subscriber after all.

#107 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

...yet you haven't offered a valid reason why there would be a bandwidth or capacity issue.


Really? Must be a problem on your end!:D

#108 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

Really? Must be a problem on your end!:D


Capacity won't be an issue and On Demand content isn't going to move to a satellite delivery method. So what else ya got?
DTV = Digital Television

#109 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:43 PM

Agree with DoD not going to satellite, beyond what they do now with the push of PPV content to HD DVR's. Everything I've seen is DIRECTV is pushing their techs to hook up as many customers that they can to a broadband internet connection for new installs and service calls. This is not only for On Demand content but other services like nomad which requires an internet connection or RVU on Samsung TV's which require an internet connection to download DTCP keys before connecting to a Genie.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#110 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

Capacity won't be an issue and On Demand content isn't going to move to a satellite delivery method. So what else ya got?


You must be bored again!:lol:

I didn't realize that you had that kind of control over DirecTV and could make those types of decisions.

I bow to your obvious superiority.

Because you know capacity won't be a problem and OnDemand will stay on the Internet will you tell me when DirecTV will offer 4k or 8k TV? When will they have lossless compression at least on audio? Bandwidth is not important so why not do 8k this year?

Why don't they eliminate all those pesky encoders and just pass along what they receive from the content providers untouched? They have plenty of bandwidth after all.

Could you also tell me the winning lottery numbers for this weekend?:hurah:

I think maybe we should just agree to disagree. Truth is neither of us know squat about it.:nono:

#111 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

Agree with DoD not going to satellite, beyond what they do now with the push of PPV content to HD DVR's. Everything I've seen is DIRECTV is pushing their techs to hook up as many customers that they can to a broadband internet connection for new installs and service calls. This is not only for On Demand content but other services like nomad which requires an internet connection or RVU on Samsung TV's which require an internet connection to download DTCP keys before connecting to a Genie.


I don't think it will happen 'soon' but if DirecTV is serious about OnDemand they'll have to do something other than require subscribers to also subscribe to DirecTVs competition to make it 'sort of' work!

#112 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

I don't think it will happen 'soon' but if DirecTV is serious about OnDemand they'll have to do something other than require subscribers to also subscribe to DirecTVs competition to make it 'sort of' work!


Actually, with latest developments (some which may not be in national release yet, I am unsure of that), it is working quite well. I can routinely watch programming in seconds and the resulting picture/sounds are more reliable than anything I've ever seen on Comcast or fios which always have drop outs, jitters, etc. so, it is more than 'sort of' working.

As for using a competitor, not all Internet providers are competitors.
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#113 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

You are making this incredibly easy.

I didn't realize that you had that kind of control over DirecTV and could make those types of decisions.


I don't. Logic will get you a long way however. There are not enough existing or potential HD channels to cause them capacity issues after the launch next year. On Demand is delivered the way it is because satellite delivery is not viable for that type of content and nothing about that will change.

When will they have lossless compression at least on audio? Bandwidth is not important so why not do 8k this year?


Lossless audio? I hope you realize that there are no content owners even discussing the distribution of lossless audio for broadcast purposes. Name a single content owner who has mentioned the use of 8K for broadcast. You're imagining things you don't even understand.

Why don't they eliminate all those pesky encoders and just pass along what they receive from the content providers untouched? They have plenty of bandwidth after all.


They very nearly are already.
DTV = Digital Television

#114 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

Actually, with latest developments (some which may not be in national release yet, I am unsure of that), it is working quite well. I can routinely watch programming in seconds and the resulting picture/sounds are more reliable than anything I've ever seen on Comcast or fios which always have drop outs, jitters, etc. so, it is more than 'sort of' working.

As for using a competitor, not all Internet providers are competitors.


I must not be in an area that has the latest developments.

I just tried to test it - I went to On Demand - HD All - just moving down the list a page at time is enough to make me give up. Very slow... Not a little slow... Not normal DirecTV slow but horribly slow!

I picked a Showtime option and of course I had to set it to record....

I went back to the play list and it was about 2 minutes before I could get more than a few seconds.

I left it running for a bit to see how fast the download was... After about 10 minutes of 'downloading' I could watch about 7 minutes of it... So not quite real time.

The worst part is the menus are so slow and I can't just 'watch' it I have to record it so that forces me to use the slow menu system even more.

Bottom line - DirecTV's OnDemand is not worth it to me.... To slow to navigate and to slow to download.

I can see using it if I know what I want to watch later in the day. I could then start it recording now and then it would be ready tonight...

What's the deal with some of the 'Watch-Now' being $10.99? Wouldn't I just buy the movie? Wow.

So may be ok with it - maybe even most may be ok with it but it sure leaves much to be desired if you've used Comcast's OnDemand - at least around here.

Anyway - the only reason I brought up OnDemand here is/was that I figure DirecTV would try to make the OnDemand experience better... Maybe by using larger hard drives, better codecs and using satellite bandwidth to pre-record popular content or something.

Not all ISPs are going head to head with DirecTV but the biggest and fastest ones are.

#115 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

You are making this incredibly easy.



I don't. Logic will get you a long way however. There are not enough existing or potential HD channels to cause them capacity issues after the launch next year. On Demand is delivered the way it is because satellite delivery is not viable for that type of content and nothing about that will change.



Lossless audio? I hope you realize that there are no content owners even discussing the distribution of lossless audio for broadcast purposes. Name a single content owner who has mentioned the use of 8K for broadcast. You're imagining things you don't even understand.



They very nearly are already.


Easy? Nothing on TV today I guess - I'm happy to entertain you!

At least we agree that satellite delivery is not viable for OnDemand.

I didn't say any content owners are discussing lossless audio or 8K... I do think things will change and the changes are going to require more bandwidth whatever they are.

Imagining things I don't even understand? Really? Now you even know what I understand - you certainly are an amazing person. If only we all had your level of understanding - the world would be a different place!

The encoders are very nearly just passing what they receive? Again, really? Do you have anything to back all this up with or do you just jump from thread to thread spreading your joy?

#116 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:41 PM

I just tried it.

On a HR34-700 entered ch 1501, selected all, took 7 seconds to populate the list, selected a program, took 15 seconds until it started playing in HD.

Did the same thing on a HR24-500, 14 seconds to populate the list, 13 seconds to start playing the recording.

Internet connection is Time Warner with 15Mbs/2Mbps service. Wife is also streaming HGTV at the same time on her iPad via the DIRECTV iPad application. Both HD DVR's using DECA and connect to my network via a DECA-BB.

Sorry you're not seeing the same thing, but I can live with times like what I'm seeing.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#117 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

I just tried it.

On a HR34-700 entered ch 1501, selected all, took 7 seconds to populate the list, selected a program, took 15 seconds until it started playing in HD.

Did the same thing on a HR24-500, 14 seconds to populate the list, 13 seconds to start playing the recording.

Internet connection is Time Warner with 15Mbs/2Mbps service. Wife is also streaming HGTV at the same time on her iPad via the DIRECTV iPad application. Both HD DVR's using DECA and connect to my network via a DECA-BB.

Sorry you're not seeing the same thing, but I can live with times like what I'm seeing.


I'll try it that way rather than going to 'On Demand' from the menu. Maybe part of my trouble is the I'm looking at ALL HD - not just Showtime.

I think for me to scroll all the way to the bottom of the 'All' list could take an hour or more---- No joke. I push DOWN it waits a second or two and then I watch it fill in the next page.

I also don't doubt that Comcast (My ISP) is screwing with it. My Speeds are normally very quick for just about everything - the service is labeled as 50 down 5 up.

#118 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:58 PM

I'll try it that way rather than going to 'On Demand' from the menu. Maybe part of my trouble is the I'm looking at ALL HD - not just Showtime.


I tried the HD all option from ch 1000 and agree with you, performance is horrible. Looks like it downloads the entire list before displaying a page and then if you select a program and go back it downloads the entire list again, not a user friendly way to do it. Guess I never noticed that since I always go to a channel and then list from there.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#119 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:15 PM

I tried the HD all option from ch 1000 and agree with you, performance is horrible. Looks like it downloads the entire list before displaying a page and then if you select a program and go back it downloads the entire list again, not a user friendly way to do it. Guess I never noticed that since I always go to a channel and then list from there.


I typically search or go to the channel looking for what I want.

While fios and Comcast menus are snappier, neither (to my knowledge) has a complete list like channel 1000 on DirecTV. Finding stuff on their systems is just as painful because the organization for all of them suck.
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#120 OFFLINE   goinsleeper

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

I went back to the play list and it was about 2 minutes before I could get more than a few seconds.

I left it running for a bit to see how fast the download was... After about 10 minutes of 'downloading' I could watch about 7 minutes of it... So not quite real time.


I have Comcast's 25 Mb/s and I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes to start something I got from DoD and never reach the buffer. You may also want to check your network setup as something seems off.

Just like others have said, I avoid channel 1000 and either Smart Search or just go straight to the On Demand channel I'm looking for. With Comcast's On Demand, I constantly had issues with freeze frame, pixelation, just stopping halfway through and audio sync being over a second off. I felt rewarded when I finally found something that didn't have an issue.




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