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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Genie - Not (Ever?) For Me


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44 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

DirecTV uses an encryption scheme that ties recordings to a specific receiver. DISH does not. Until DirecTV decides to redo their encryption scheme, which would most likely cost a lot of money, it's not going to happen.

If DIRECTV can make WHDS work, encryption is clearly a crimson colored kipper candidate.

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#27 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

With due respect, my basset-faced friend, I find it unthinkable that you have evidence to back up that claim. Whole-home service does not in any way imply that locally stored encrypted files can be easily changed to be receiver-agnostic.

If you are suggesting that it is possible to change things so that recordings are encrypted to the account not the individual receiver, I'd reply that with enough resources almost anything is possible. I would then ask you to cite the results of the cost analysis that you must have done to support the idea that making such a change would ever bring anything close to a return on investment.
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#28 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

Did the temperature in here just drop or what? :eek2:

Now we're fighting about what 'Long term storage' is? Must not be anything on TV this afternoon I guess!:)

#29 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:48 PM

I just figured if you could load up an external hard drive with 500 hours of HBO or Skinamax, you could let a buddy at work (who has D* but no premium channels) borrow the hard drive to watch movies and then no one in Hollywood gets $$$$ for his viewership.

The encryption key keeps that from happening??

#30 OFFLINE   ndole

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

I can't remember.. who is it that has a fancy projector setup in their front room? I'm estoopid and cunfuz'd :lol:
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#31 ONLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

I just figured if you could load up an external hard drive with 500 hours of HBO or Skinamax, you could let a buddy at work (who has D* but no premium channels) borrow the hard drive to watch movies and then no one in Hollywood gets $$$$ for his viewership.

The encryption key keeps that from happening??


If it were done, you couldn't play back on anything but the registered receiver or perhaps, DIRECTV account (i.e., any of the receivers registered to that account). Sure, you could take it over to your buddy's house and play it there, but you can physically do that now, though it's quite against the ToS.
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#32 ONLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

LOL, just how could it serve media to multiple destinations without long term storage? DOH!!!! Using your definition Directv would have to take the hard drive out and instantly stream everything.

From the dictionary: By definition a media server is a device that simply stores and shares media


I agree with Mr. Stew. Long term doesn't come into the equation, nor has it been defined here for that matter.
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#33 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:58 PM

Media server serves up media. No where is it truly designated and universally accepted by anyone everywhere what that media may be, or how its captured and sent and where its stored.

In fact, Genie doesn't have to store a single min of anything on its hard drive to serve up media. It can send photos from your computer, music from Pandora, stream via the internet movies and tv shows, pump live stations, and even pull recorded shows from other machines, and distribute it to multiple tvs or sounds systems at the same time.

That all makes it a media server without one second of stored media on its own hard drive.

#34 OFFLINE   macfan601

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:46 AM

Media server serves up media. No where is it truly designated and universally accepted by anyone everywhere what that media may be, or how its captured and sent and where its stored.

In fact, Genie doesn't have to store a single min of anything on its hard drive to serve up media. It can send photos from your computer, music from Pandora, stream via the internet movies and tv shows, pump live stations, and even pull recorded shows from other machines, and distribute it to multiple tvs or sounds systems at the same time.

That all makes it a media server without one second of stored media on its own hard drive.


You are correct as am I and others on here. According to PC Magazine there are many definitions of a media server. I think your definition might be #1 & #3 whereas my definition is #2.

Definition of: media server

(1) Software that makes audio and video files in the computer available on the network. For discovering files, media server software typically uses the Bonjour or UPnP protocols. For sharing files and playlists, they use DAAP or Windows Media Connect protocols. For example, iTunes uses Bonjour to discover and DAAP to share, while Windows Media Player uses UPnP and Windows Media Connect. See DAAP, UPnP, Bonjour, Windows Media Connect, Firefly, digital media hub and digital media server.

(2) Hardware that stores digital music, images and videos for a stereo or home theater. See digital media server and Windows Media Center.

(3) A computer system in a network that stores multimedia files for downloading over the Internet.

(4) A computer system in an IP telephony network that transmits dial tones, busy signals and announcements such as "the number you have called is no longer in service." The media server can be a separate unit or part of a softswitch (media gateway controller). See IP telephony.

#35 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:13 AM

I guess u use ur dvr different than me. I don't concider it as an archive. At most I keep shows for a couple of weeks before I watch them and delete.


I do. I have a Home Theater Setup and use that as part of my Movie Library. tore my DVR apart and installed a 2 terabyte. Would of installed a 3 but Directv firmware in my unit doesnt see it.

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#36 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:21 AM

I guess Directv thinks differently than you too because they called the HR34 a "media server" when it first came out. Media Server would indicate the long term storage of large quantities of media for future playback. Directv only started calling the HR34, Genie when Dish called its big DVR, Hopper. Directv wanted to be able to say we have a cute name too. I personally think the reason the hard drives are small and we can't move them on Directv DVRs is that Directv makes a large profit off of PPVs and would rather have us buying and watching those than storing programming to watch later. I have the Premier package along with the HD packages. If I am patient my premium channels offer just about any movie I want and/or that Directv offers on PPV. This is how I stock my front projector Home Theater. I never buy PPVs and very seldom buy DVDs or Blu Rays unless it is something I want as a keepsake. I make the Premier programming package more than pay off for me. What I do now as a backup for my HR34 and HR24 is burn anything valuable to a DVD. I am not sure how much longer DVD burners or DVD players are going to be around though as there is only one factory left in China that make the chips for those. Everything is going Blu Ray or streaming. I have seen computer Blu Ray burners but have never seen a Home Theater component Blu Ray burner yet. My guess is that as the DVD burners are phased out we might start seeing those.



Just found this online this morning http://www.hauppauge...ata_hdpvr2.html

Im going to check it out sounds better then burning disks !

Edited by Rickt1962, 19 February 2013 - 06:13 AM.

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Come from the land of Pennsylvania where Cable TV was invented ! Had HBO back in the 70's and total cable bill was $ 12.00 and all TV's got Cable with no extra fee ! Been using satellite since the C-Band Days and Dave and Charlie
 


#37 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:33 AM

With due respect, my basset-faced friend, I find it unthinkable that you have evidence to back up that claim. Whole-home service does not in any way imply that locally stored encrypted files can be easily changed to be receiver-agnostic.

How do you suppose that WHDS allows encrypted content from one machine to be played on another machine in real time? My theory holds that the client receives a key as part of the handshake with the server and the rest is history.

I don't have direct evidence or documentation, but I have block diagrams of chipsets and reason that seem to support my theory.

Do you have insight or documentation that suggests that the server DVR somehow re-encrypts the stream using a different key or the clients own key? I'm pretty sure there isn't the hardware in there to do that. The Genie would need to re-encrypt "up to" three such streams simultaneously. Yes, I assume that the transmitted streams are encrypted but I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption in this day and age of DRM.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#38 OFFLINE   macfan601

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

Just found this online this morning http://www.hauppauge...ata_hdpvr2.html

Im going to check it out sounds better then burning disks !


Smiles, actually I have a Black Magic, HDMI/1080p, video/audio capture card in my Mac Pro tower that I, ahemmmmm, usually don't talk about, besides my DVD burner in my computer, as well as my stand alone DVD burner. The Black Magic card works great and shall we say captures "everything", wink. Black Magic makes one for the PC too. It is more of a professional card that is used in Hollywood type work so you won't find it at Wally World but any "good" computer supply store should have it.

#39 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:00 PM

Smiles, actually I have a Black Magic, HDMI/1080p, video/audio capture card in my Mac Pro tower that I, ahemmmmm, usually don't talk about, besides my DVD burner in my computer, as well as my stand alone DVD burner. The Black Magic card works great and shall we say captures "everything", wink. Black Magic makes one for the PC too. It is more of a professional card that is used in Hollywood type work so you won't find it at Wally World but any "good" computer supply store should have it.


Thanks ! :) IL hav to check it out !

King Cable Cutter ! XBMC , PLEX , Raspberry Pi   Love my New Boxes :)

Avatars are to protect the Ugly people from scaring others !
Come from the land of Pennsylvania where Cable TV was invented ! Had HBO back in the 70's and total cable bill was $ 12.00 and all TV's got Cable with no extra fee ! Been using satellite since the C-Band Days and Dave and Charlie
 


#40 OFFLINE   JohnTSmith

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

Well, after reading all the replies and discussions and replies to discussions about what "brand x" does and what DTV woulda-coulda-shoulda done with recordings, I am still of the mind that I am VERY unlikely to switch from separate DVR boxes to a Genie

IF DirecTV ever changes (doesn't sound likely, from what I've read here) I might consider a Genie and a "hot swap" drive enclosure with automatic backup so a single drive dying doesn't mean everything is lost... probably not going to happen

Staying with my 4 DVR boxes is what I see for the future

PS - I don't have/need one, but I see various Black Magic devices mentioned in the Adobe Premiere support forum... they seem like good products, except when Adobe comes out with a new Premiere version and BM takes awhile to catch up with new device drivers

#41 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

I am still of the mind that I am VERY unlikely to switch from separate DVR boxes to a Genie


Which still makes no sense to me.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#42 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:57 AM

I have 5 DVRs and I'm quite happy with every thing the way it is as well. No need for a Genie.

#43 OFFLINE   eddieras

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:58 PM

i have two DVRs and whole home set up - i hate that i can't manage both from one location. having the genie would eliminate this problem, but i'm trying to figure out the difference for my usage. am i correct that size-wise the two HR 24's have the same recording capacity as the one genie? are there any clear features gained or lost if i made the switch? of course the extra tuner... thanks for any additional insight!

#44 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

Same drive capacity and number of series links as 2 HR24s. However the 34 does support larger external SATA drives. The 24 maxes out at 2TB, the 34 currently has no known max.

I really can't think of anything the 24 can do that the 34 can't, other than working in a non SWM setup.

#45 OFFLINE   johnp37

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

I have 5 DVRs and I'm quite happy with every thing the way it is as well. No need for a Genie.


Likewise. If a Genie goes kaput, no TV.Other than 5 tuners I don't see the attraction. If it becomes necessary, I'll just set one of my other 4 DVRs to record. No biggie.
I pick things up and I put them down




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