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Fox is attacking the Hopper, Sling Adapter and Dish Anywhere now


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94 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:44 PM

DirecTV has had it for a long time and has chosen not to implement it for obvious reasons. Charlie has no concept of right and wrong...just what his massive team of lawyers can conspire to get away with on his behalf. He's ethically bankrupt. Nothing new there.

I can run a mile in 3min 50seconds and a marathon in 2h 50min. But I choose not to. :D

But let's get back to DISH vs Fox and leave the companies that choose not to compete with this feature out of this thread.

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#42 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:52 PM

I'm amazed that more people don't see my point. Not because it is my point :) but because it sticks out like the literary and literal "sore thumb"...

If you are a Dish subscriber with a Hopper, Dish says to FOX "customers don't have to watch your commercials"... but if you are a DirecTV or cable customer, Dish says to FOX "you have to air our commercials"...

How is that not the height of hypocrisy?

Yeah, I get what they are trying to do... but they are being on both sides of the issue.

IF Dish truly believes customers don't watch commercials, then why is Dish wasting money on commercials themselves?

They must believe their money is well spent, which is only true if they believe customers were watching... which is only possible if you don't help making it easier for customers to not watch commercials.

Nobody can force me to watch commercials. I can take a bathroom or snack break. I can skip them manually after I DVR them.

AutoHop does too much for you once you say "yes"... and that makes it easier.

Many customers will be too lazy to pick up the remote and fiddle with it to skip commercials... advertisers bank on this... but AutoHop requires just the one press of a button in the beginning to activate it.

I also point out that Dish isn't doing this for all channels... they are only doing it for the "big four" OTA channels... IF Dish truly believed in the technology as they say, they would enable it for ALL commercial channels... wonder why they haven't done that?

I'm usually on Dish's side for most things... but even as a happy Dish customer, I can't really see anything good coming of this... Down the road, when Dish wins this fight... we will either:

1. Lose OTA channels.
2. More banners on the screen during programs and you can't skip those!
3. More product placement.
4. Higher price to watch those OTA channels via Dish.

One or more of those is the only way for the channels to make up that lost revenue when Dish helps you skip the ads more conveniently and the advertisers begin to pull back their money.

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#43 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

It actually is an interesting point I didn't think of. My parents have a DVR, and while my father doesn't grasp the simplest DVR concept, being able to watch something that's half over which is being recorded, my mother is pretty good with it, yet tends to forget you can fast forward through commercials. So in this case, they are losing something.

But then Fox has had some really bad ads inside shows, even worse than the Pawn Stars doing their taxes or learning Skype.

#44 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:09 PM

I'm amazed that more people don't see my point. Not because it is my point :) but because it sticks out like the literary and literal "sore thumb"...

If you are a Dish subscriber with a Hopper, Dish says to FOX "customers don't have to watch your commercials"... but if you are a DirecTV or cable customer, Dish says to FOX "you have to air our commercials"...

How is that not the height of hypocrisy?

Yeah, I get what they are trying to do... but they are being on both sides of the issue.

IF Dish truly believes customers don't watch commercials, then why is Dish wasting money on commercials themselves?

They must believe their money is well spent, which is only true if they believe customers were watching... which is only possible if you don't help making it easier for customers to not watch commercials.

Nobody can force me to watch commercials. I can take a bathroom or snack break. I can skip them manually after I DVR them.

AutoHop does too much for you once you say "yes"... and that makes it easier.

Many customers will be too lazy to pick up the remote and fiddle with it to skip commercials... advertisers bank on this... but AutoHop requires just the one press of a button in the beginning to activate it.

I also point out that Dish isn't doing this for all channels... they are only doing it for the "big four" OTA channels... IF Dish truly believed in the technology as they say, they would enable it for ALL commercial channels... wonder why they haven't done that?

I'm usually on Dish's side for most things... but even as a happy Dish customer, I can't really see anything good coming of this... Down the road, when Dish wins this fight... we will either:

1. Lose OTA channels.
2. More banners on the screen during programs and you can't skip those!
3. More product placement.
4. Higher price to watch those OTA channels via Dish.

One or more of those is the only way for the channels to make up that lost revenue when Dish helps you skip the ads more conveniently and the advertisers begin to pull back their money.


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#45 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:18 PM

IF Dish truly believes customers don't watch commercials, then why is Dish wasting money on commercials themselves?

It seems that you're overthinking this. Is this another "devils advocate" thread where you want to stir up a fight?

DISH believes customers (in general) do not WANT to watch commercials. Whether they watch commercials or not is immaterial. It is the customer's desire that is important. So they introduced a feature where their customers are given what they want.

How are potential customers expected to know that the feature is available? Via advertising. DISH selling a receiver that, in part, allows people to skip most commercials in primetime (not the only cool feature) is a story that needs to reach the masses. DISH advertising that feature is not a waste. They are reaching people who WANT to more easily skip commercials but do not currently have that technology.

No hypocracy ... DISH is not buying commercials they want their customers to skip. They are buying commercials to let people without the technology know that they can more easily skip that ad.


And as far as backing down and letting the networks have their way ... once DISH starts to cave in where should it stop? If the networks demand the end of auto-hop and $5 per subscriber per network station per month is that good for you? How about if the networks demand that DISH disable all commercial skipping during that network's programming? Are we at a point where DISH needs to cave to any demand of the network? I hope not. And not caving on AutoHop is a good place to start.

#46 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

And as far as backing down and letting the networks have their way ... once DISH starts to cave in where should it stop? If the networks demand the end of auto-hop and $5 per subscriber per network station per month is that good for you? How about if the networks demand that DISH disable all commercial skipping during that network's programming? Are we at a point where DISH needs to cave to any demand of the network? I hope not. And not caving on AutoHop is a good place to start.

Yes, that clearly states the issue. It is important to note something I thought was a bit odd. Those same four stations local stations in each DMA are on 24-7 and could be recorded in 4-hour blocks with ad skipping. The fact that Dish only enabled this in the prime time block does make a "political" statement that only "coincidentally" came about just months after the networks started demanding significant payments from us, the viewers, through our signal carriers via the local channels.

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#47 OFFLINE   EdBott

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

DirecTV has had it for a long time and has chosen not to implement it for obvious reasons. Charlie has no concept of right and wrong...just what his massive team of lawyers can conspire to get away with on his behalf. He's ethically bankrupt. Nothing new there.


No Directv is just sitting on it waiting for the outcome of the commercial skip lawsuit. If dish wins you can bet we will see them turn the feature on in a heartbeat.

#48 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

No Directv is just sitting on it waiting for the outcome of the commercial skip lawsuit. If dish wins you can bet we will see them turn the feature on in a heartbeat.


They had it long before Dish did or any lawsuit over it existed. They simply understand how silly it is to purposefully screw over the very content owners that you rely on and must do business with.
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#49 OFFLINE   Klatu

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:09 PM

FYI, since December there's been a law in place that requires the volume to be consistent. If you are still seeing that commercials are louder than the program you can complain here:
http://www.fcc.gov/g...oud-commercials


Sorry, I didn't answer sooner. Must be my wife's hearing, she still has me turn lots of commercials down because they are so loud.

There has been other "laws" on the books or on FCC orders that seem to have been around for many years.

None of it works and sending a note to somebody at the FCC seems to be a waste of time, seeing that our deficit keeps growing no matter how much I tell them to stop spending money and develop a budget. :)
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#50 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

Yes, that clearly states the issue. It is important to note something I thought was a bit odd. Those same four stations local stations in each DMA are on 24-7 and could be recorded in 4-hour blocks with ad skipping. The fact that Dish only enabled this in the prime time block does make a "political" statement that only "coincidentally" came about just months after the networks started demanding significant payments from us, the viewers, through our signal carriers via the local channels.

It is a much easier feature to implement during prime time when the stations are airing the same programming in each time zone. With the most watched programs being in prime time on the big four networks it makes sense to start there where the feature will be the most useful.

I'd like to see PTAT expand outside of the prime time hours ... perhaps to record late night or evening news hours. Some may want to multi-record daytime programming. DISH has made steps in that direction with the more recent software releases (allowing viewing of any of the local stations using the same tuner but, as of last check, still requiring one tuner per recording outside of prime time). And Auto-Hop on non-prime time network programming would not be impossible.

DISH has made some modifications to the feature that require it to be enabled by customers, allow the customer to choose what networks and what days to capture, and affirm at the beginning of each playback that they want to skip commercials. Although those who do not want to skip commercials may be like the Capitol One baby who doesn't want 50% more cash back.

I choose not to be that baby. :lol:

#51 OFFLINE   donalddickerson2005

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

Its not just fox...
Lawsuits brought by CBS (the parent company of CNET), Fox (News Corp.), NBC (Comcast), and ABC (Disney) so far have not stopped Dish from selling the Hopper, which Dish says is in 2 million homes. The networks contend that Dish Hopper is illegal, and that Dish doesn't have the right to tamper with advertising from broadcast replays for its own economic and commercial advantage.

http://news.cnet.com...-ban-on-hopper/
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#52 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

We have a separate thread for the lawsuits by all four networks ... Fox has earned a special thread since they went the extra step and refused commercials (just like CBS got a special thread when they influenced CNet to not award the CES award to the top vote getter).

I don't believe that ABC or NBC have done anything beyond the lawsuit.

#53 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

It actually is an interesting point I didn't think of. My parents have a DVR, and while my father doesn't grasp the simplest DVR concept, being able to watch something that's half over which is being recorded, my mother is pretty good with it, yet tends to forget you can fast forward through commercials. So in this case, they are losing something.

But then Fox has had some really bad ads inside shows, even worse than the Pawn Stars doing their taxes or learning Skype.


That's funny. It reminds me of my parents. When I'm at their house I'm constantly having to ask my father to fast forward at commercials. He keeps saying "I think it's live". This tech would be completely lost on my parents which is why they have cable instead of satellite. Cable's just easy I think. He does drool over my Hopper when he's over though, not enough to convert though.:)

#54 OFFLINE   jerry downing

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:35 PM

I thought it was funny to see Dish and the Hopper logo seen on Fox during today's race.

#55 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:28 AM

Look at it from a different point of view.

Dish says "With the Hopper you can skip commercials".

Fox says "That'll kill us!".

Dish says, "Oh really, then why are we trying to spend money buying your commercial time? It's not as deadly as you think!"

...it's certainly true for live sports at least. ...which exactly what Dish was trying to buy into.

#56 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

I'm amazed that more people don't see my point. Not because it is my point :) but because it sticks out like the literary and literal "sore thumb"...

If you are a Dish subscriber with a Hopper, Dish says to FOX "customers don't have to watch your commercials"... but if you are a DirecTV or cable customer, Dish says to FOX "you have to air our commercials"...

How is that not the height of hypocrisy?

Yeah, I get what they are trying to do... but they are being on both sides of the issue.

IF Dish truly believes customers don't watch commercials, then why is Dish wasting money on commercials themselves?

They must believe their money is well spent, which is only true if they believe customers were watching... which is only possible if you don't help making it easier for customers to not watch commercials.

Nobody can force me to watch commercials. I can take a bathroom or snack break. I can skip them manually after I DVR them.

AutoHop does too much for you once you say "yes"... and that makes it easier.

Many customers will be too lazy to pick up the remote and fiddle with it to skip commercials... advertisers bank on this... but AutoHop requires just the one press of a button in the beginning to activate it.

I also point out that Dish isn't doing this for all channels... they are only doing it for the "big four" OTA channels... IF Dish truly believed in the technology as they say, they would enable it for ALL commercial channels... wonder why they haven't done that?

I'm usually on Dish's side for most things... but even as a happy Dish customer, I can't really see anything good coming of this... Down the road, when Dish wins this fight... we will either:

1. Lose OTA channels.
2. More banners on the screen during programs and you can't skip those!
3. More product placement.
4. Higher price to watch those OTA channels via Dish.

One or more of those is the only way for the channels to make up that lost revenue when Dish helps you skip the ads more conveniently and the advertisers begin to pull back their money.


With all the DVR's in use today and OTA channels screaming they are hurting for money, dont you think they need to come up with a different source of revenue? You either change with the times or get left in the dust.
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#57 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:16 AM

They had it long before Dish did or any lawsuit over it existed. They simply understand how silly it is to purposefully screw over the very content owners that you rely on and must do business with.


But as soon as they have it, I'm sure you'll be gushing how it's better than Dish's version.

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#58 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:22 AM

Its not just fox...
Lawsuits brought by CBS (the parent company of CNET), Fox (News Corp.), NBC (Comcast), and ABC (Disney) so far have not stopped Dish from selling the Hopper, which Dish says is in 2 million homes. The networks contend that Dish Hopper is illegal, and that Dish doesn't have the right to tamper with advertising from broadcast replays for its own economic and commercial advantage.

http://news.cnet.com...-ban-on-hopper/


This would make every DVR on the market illegal. We all have the ability to skip commercials on recorded content. This is really just the next evolution of a DVR. I dont see how the big 4 networks can be okay with DVR's but not with this new feature.

I guess people who use OTA and something like a TiVo are really sticking it to them then since they are not paying at all for the big 4. Time to figure out how else to get the funds needed.
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#59 OFFLINE   patmurphey

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:23 AM

They had it long before Dish did or any lawsuit over it existed. They simply understand how silly it is to purposefully screw over the very content owners that you rely on and must do business with.


Ridiculous! I skip commercials, period. Dish is makig what I already do more convenient. Customers first with Dish.

#60 OFFLINE   acostapimps

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

I still can't wrap around my head what's all this disputing all about since autohop is not for LiveTV, so is no different than manual skip ahead other than enabling automatically one button press after nightly update or the next day, Maybe its the PTAT locals which the network is a part of for AH, So I'm not sure what would be the argument besides ad revenue loss, because if that's the case then DVR's would be illegal.

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