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Fox is attacking the Hopper, Sling Adapter and Dish Anywhere now


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#76 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

I think the incidence of commercials being seen is some level higher than what it is with autohop where it is just push a button once and forget it the rest of the night - well, of course that statement is true.

It would be truer if one used a correct description of AutoHop.

AutoHop does NOT have a feature where you press a button once and forget it for the rest of the night. The viewer must select AutoHop at the beginning of each playback ... not once per night. If the playback is stopped (not paused, but exiting the playback of that recording) the AutoHop question is presented again.

Plus AutoHop is intentionally not perfect. Due to slight differences in timing between the hundreds of stations across the nation airing broadcast network programming, AutoHop plays the first few seconds of the beginning of the break and the last few seconds of the break. It is designed this way to make sure customers don't miss part of a show due to one station being slightly off from others.

This provides a perfect opportunity for broadcasters to charge more to advertisers who are first or last in a commercial block (although most of the stations in my market promote their late news or Leno/Letterman in the last slot in each commercial break).

People who get the idea that enabling AutoHop means the customer will never see a commercial again are mistaken. People who believe that it is one choice per night to skip most commercials are also mistaken. AutoHop is a good feature and it makes skipping easier but it isn't 100% effective against commercials.

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#77 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

Stewart I understand the point you are trying to make but you seem to also argue that having the commercial play, even if no one is watching it (gone to the bathroom, talking with others, or getting a snack) somehow adds value to that commercial versus it being skipped. "If a commercial airs but no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?" I'm sorry but that seems like a far reach to me, and the amount of time I pay any attention to the commercials while skipping through them (manually or with AutoHop) is only to see when what I actually want to watch is back on.


That isn't the point I have been making, though. I have said that they can't make me watch a commercial... BUT before AutoHop at least they thought I might be watching them. With AutoHop, the advertiser's natural inclination is to assume I am not watching... and thus not want to pay as much for advertising.

The point is... AutoHop makes it far more likely that a viewer will skip commercials than just having a DVR. Without AutoHop you have to pick up the remote and fiddle during each commercial break... With AutoHop, one button at the beginning of the show takes care of it for the duration of that program.

IF you are an advertiser... that changes how you look at paying for commercials.

If technology and viewing habits dictate that the traditional advertising revenue model no longer works and we end up paying for programming in a different manner then that's evolution of the business and trying to stop progress is a fools errand.


This is true... and it is also what I have been saying. But many people seem to want to ignore reality and think there will be no evolution in the form of cost to consumers. People say "yay AutoHop" without thinking what it might do to their budget down the road. All I've been saying is "be careful what you wish for" because when Dish wins, and they should win, then don't go nuts when the prices go up for the OTA programming.

Look at it this way - perhaps the price of many goods and services would go down considerably if so much money isn't being spent on advertising budgets for those products.


No, don't hold your breath on that one. I've been saying for years that I think a lot of advertising is wasted money. Coke and Pepsi and most beers, for example, don't need to spend what they do just to let me know their product is still on the shelves... when I see them every week at the local stores.

BUT... to some extent, we should want advertisers to think their dollars spent matter... so they keep spending and subsidizing out TV viewing.

IF they all stop advertising tomorrow, they would just pocket the profit and not drop the prices on their products. You can bank on that.

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#78 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

Since AutoHop does not work until the next day the networks and their advertisers should concentrate on "must see TV". Programming so good that people don't want to wait until the next day to skip commercials.

Think of a show such as The Big Bang Theory ... it airs on Thursday night and everyone who cares about that show tunes in and watches. If they go to work or talk to their friends on Friday they want to know what happened on the latest show - lest they have to say "spoiler alert" every time the topic comes up.

In order to see that program on "ad free TV" they would need to watch it after 1am ... which is entirely possible but that still gives them hours where they are out of the loop. Make the programming compelling enough that people WANT to see it same day and the advertisers have nothing to worry about from AutoHop ... they just have to worry about the people watching slightly delayed who are skipping commercials on their existing "non-controversial" DVRs. :)

It does not help their court case for the major networks to recognize and acknowledge the limitations of AutoHop. But the networks could do more damage to DISH by saying "AutoHop does not perform as advertised" than reinforcing the next day add skipping feature as being "you will never see an ad".

BTW: I loved the recent "spoiler alert" episode of The Big Bang Theory.

#79 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

I wonder what the stats are on those with Hoppers that actually use AutoHop. For instance, we have 2 Hoppers 3 Joeys, but we do not use PTAT or AutoHop and don't really plan to at least for now.

#80 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:11 PM

DISH Applauds Decision Allowing Consumers to Continue to Enjoy Place-Shifting Technology





ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- The United States District Court, Central District of California, today denied a preliminary injunction motion filed by Fox Broadcasting Company seeking to block two place-shifting features found on DISH's Hopper® Whole-Home DVR platform: DISH AnywhereTM and Hopper TransfersTM.

The following statement can be attributed to DISH Executive Vice President and General Counsel, R. Stanton Dodge:

"Today's decision is the fourth in a string of victories for consumers related to our Hopper® Whole-Home DVR platform. DISH is pleased that the Court has sided again with consumer choice and control by rejecting Fox's efforts to deny our customers' access to the DISH Anywhere and Hopper Transfers features. We will continue to vigorously defend consumers' right to choice and control over their viewing experience."

DISH Anywhere, using Sling technology built into DISH's Hopper with Sling® Whole-Home DVR, provides a DISH customer, once they receive a television signal in their home, the capability to remotely view that signal from a single Internet-connected device (mobile phone, tablet or PC). Sling technology has been available since 2005 and this motion was the first of its kind in seven years.

With the Hopper Transfers feature, a DISH customer can move or duplicate certain Hopper DVR recordings made by the customer to an iPad; and unlike DISH Anywhere, no Internet connection is needed for viewing.

About DISH

DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.014 million satellite TV customers, as of June 30, 2013, with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value, including HD Free for Life®. Subscribers enjoy the largest high definition line-up, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation's subsidiary, Blockbuster L.L.C., delivers family entertainment to millions of customers around the world. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com.


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#81 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:12 PM

It seems the courts haven't been very sympathetic to the networks complaints against the Hopper so far.


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#82 OFFLINE   FTA Michael

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:12 PM

"A federal court Monday denied Fox Broadcasting’s request to block two of the Dish Network’s Hopper DVR place-shifting features — although the judge found the broadcaster could prevail at trial." That's what Todd Spangler wrote in Variety a short time ago.

 

In response, Dish Executive Vice President and General Counsel, R. Stanton Dodge said in a statement (a press release, actually), "Today's decision is the fourth in a string of victories for consumers related to our Hopper® Whole-Home DVR platform. DISH is pleased that the Court has sided again with consumer choice and control by rejecting Fox's efforts to deny our customers' access to the DISH Anywhere and Hopper Transfers features. We will continue to vigorously defend consumers' right to choice and control over their viewing experience." But why is DISH all caps? Does it stand for something now?

 

Anyway, as Spangler noted, this was the first legal attack on Sling even though Sling has been around since 2005 and has been under Dish's corporate umbrella since 2007. Losing Sling would be a real downer, so I'm happy to see that it hasn't happened yet.

 


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#83 OFFLINE   FTA Michael

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:14 PM

D'oh! I should have posted my Fox-Dish news in this thread instead of starting a new one. Good thing the moderators can fix stuff like that.  :righton:

 

http://variety.com/2...res-1200662816/


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#84 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:17 PM

Meh, stuff happens. It was buried a ways down, thank goodness for the search feature or I would've done the same thing!


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#85 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:08 PM

But why is DISH all caps? Does it stand for something now?


It stands for the best entertainment available for a monthly fee! :)
It is a common way to state the company name ... if you type it DISH then people know you are talking about DISH Network. Not a generic dish.
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#86 OFFLINE   foghorn2

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:26 PM

I sometimes watch old 70's and 80's commercials on YouTube. If the commercials today were as interesting and entertaining, I wouldn't hop over them. Actually I wish there was a way to subvert the new commercials and insert the old ones. TV would be a lot more entertaining!


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#87 OFFLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:54 AM

You all do know this was only a rejection of an injunction to shut down the ad skipping feature of the Hopper.  The trial is still yet to come.  So DISH can ultimately lose.


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#88 OFFLINE   jadebox

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:44 AM

Do you really think the providers - Dish, DirectTV - aren't making money on the networks? You think the networks should give Dish and DirectTV the right to use their programming to make money for free?

 

TV antenna manufacturers make money because of the OTA networks. I suppose they should have to pay the network stations, also.  Ignoring DVRs and the issues they add, all Dish is doing is acting as an antenna.

 

Dish is already paying most of the network stations for carrying their programming.  So, I personally don't have a problem with Dish making it easier to skip commercials. I suspect that this whole issue will be settled in the future by Dish paying a little more to the stations to make up for the lost ad revenue.  Dish might even offer a "discount" on locals to subscribers that don't enable the "auto-skip" option. 

 

Also,Dish might be able to provide the stations with detailed stats and demographics about people who actually do see the commercials and specifics about which commercials they specifically watch or skip.  That kind of information should be something the stations (and advertisiers) might value and something else Dish could offer to placate them.

 

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Edited by jadebox, 04 November 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#89 OFFLINE   Gloria_Chavez

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:07 PM

I sometimes watch old 70's and 80's commercials on YouTube. If the commercials today were as interesting and entertaining, I wouldn't hop over them. Actually I wish there was a way to subvert the new commercials and insert the old ones. TV would be a lot more entertaining!

 

The 70s were far more risque than today.

 

Can't imagine any of the networks airing this Namath/Fawcett spot for Noxema.

 


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#90 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:52 PM

You all do know this was only a rejection of an injunction to shut down the ad skipping feature of the Hopper.  The trial is still yet to come.  So DISH can ultimately lose.

 

I'm sure most are aware of that.  But the fact that they can't get an injunction to stop it is an indicator that the court isn't so sure they have a case.


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#91 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:57 PM

I'm sure most are aware of that.  But the fact that they can't get an injunction to stop it is an indicator that the court isn't so sure they have a case.


Injunctions are normally given if there is more harm in allowing something to continue than ending it. This is one of the cases where any harm that is done to the broadcasters by DISH can be compensated by money. If an injunction was granted and the broadcasters later lost there would be harm to DISH that may not be as easily compensated.
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#92 OFFLINE   foghorn2

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

The 70s were far more risque than today.

 

Can't imagine any of the networks airing this Namath/Fawcett spot for Noxema.

 

 

nah, they are too busy playing Viagra and lawyer ads.

 


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#93 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:55 AM

I'm bringing this thread up because maybe there's someone else here who is as slow as me at reaching the "aha" moment about TV technology.

 

As I understand it the new SuperJoey/Hopper combination gives the owner five receivers each simultaneously capable of recording a different program. This matches the Genie as I understand it. Xfinity customers with an X1 can record up to four shows at once "while viewing a fifth program on the same DVR." I've got to believe that Xfinity's owner Comcast, which also owns NBCU, has already made sure that fifth program viewing could fairly easily become a fifth recording.

 

And virtually all are providing some variation of supplemental "on demand" viewing. And everybody is scrambling to get all the viewing extended to portable devices.

 

Does it really matter if the Hopper can record at prime time simultaneously an additional 3 channels on that one tuner and autoskip commercials on those four recordings? Haven't the networks already lost the war? People want the option to skip commercials. Even the owner of NBCU understands that.

 

Technology is moving way too fast for the lawsuits against AutoHop and other "innovations" to make any sense. By the time it gets to the Supreme Court, the Hopper will have been replaced with some version of goggles that display any content you want them to, anywhere, at any time, with commercial skipping. :grin:


Edited by phrelin, 07 January 2014 - 12:58 AM.

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#94 OFFLINE   david_jr

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:38 AM

The Wright Brothers lost a presence in the airplane industry because they stopped innovating and spent all their time defending their patents, while the rest of the airline industry exploded past them through innovation.  Same thing is happening here with TV technology.



#95 ONLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:07 AM

I'd REALLY like to see the DMCA taken apart and basically abolished from the present form.  The media lawyers have been abusing it for too long.  I can understand them wanting to protect their bank accounts and country club memberships by limiting piracy, but they're way off base in regards to what home users can record, how, when and what they can do with it as long as it isn't re-sold.

 

The NAB, MPAA and RIAA all need to be ripped apart too.  Only a few companies owning nearly all of the media outlets will never be good for the consumers.


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