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How to get significantly viewed dma stations added


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#51 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

Both stations I got in contact with responded back but with the same response "we're not in that DMA." I don't think many stations know about the SVC list and don't seem willing to fight it. Seems to me it'd be good for them, get paid more money for more viewers. And for me at least having the SVC added would be good for DirecTV, the area I am in a huge tourist area with a very heavy SF Bay Area influence and adding a Bay Area channel would be a great addition and reason for people to switch from cable (which offers it) to DirecTV.


List out the stations call letters, what DMA they are in, what town, county and DMA you live in and I will call the stations and see what I can do. It may or may not be today but I would be happy to push them a little for you to get them to understand what they gain by doing it.

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#52 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:09 AM

If cable carries them ,Then they are in your DMA.;)


That is not always true. Cable has different rules as to what they can import in. They are not near as restricted as Satellite. In my town, until later last year the Cable Co was importing another DMA's NBC and it was the only station from that DMA that was not on the Significantly Viewed list. The only reason that station was dropped was that the town preferred a different station from the other DMA. Not to mention since NBC was not on that list the cable co did have to black out all duplicated programming.

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#53 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:18 AM

List out the stations call letters, what DMA they are in, what town, county and DMA you live in and I will call the stations and see what I can do. It may or may not be today but I would be happy to push them a little for you to get them to understand what they gain by doing it.

Can you do the same for Monroe County, PA which is in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre DMA? Our list currently has:
WCBS NYC
KYW Philly (CBS)
WNBC NYC
WNYW NYC (Fox)
WPVI Philly (ABC)
WCAU Philly (NBC)

The big station that is missing from the list is WABC, I really want to see them join.

Our local Blue Ridge Cable system also has the following stations that should join the list too:
WWOR NYC (MyNet)
WPIX NYC (CW)
WLVT Allentown (PBS, while non-commercial stations aren't eligible for the SV list it would be nice to get an additional option for PBS programming)
WFMZ Allentown (Independent station in the northern part of the Philly DMA that covers local news from the northern suburbs of Philly to the Poconos)

At one point they also had WPSG and WPHL out of Philly but they dumped them to make room for our local MyNet affiliate when it launched.

#54 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

Well I got confirmation from WBNG 12 NY.

even though they are significantly viewed, If they are outside your DMA, there is nothing they can do. Thats right from the GM.

They said they have contracts that will prevent a neighboring CW from Entering their DMA. This forces you to watch your own market CW.

He said if its in their DMA, like 2 countys in Pa are, and Directv did not provide WBNG 12 to them, but carried some other market CW, then he could force Directv to add them as well.

But since Wayne is outside their DMA, even though its significanly viewed it doesn't matter.

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#55 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:05 PM

Thats not the Number, Thats someones Disconnected Cell phone
212 -664-4444


Sorry about that... I got it off the FCC site.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#56 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

Sorry about that... I got it off the FCC site.

Thats OK LOL!:lol:

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#57 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:13 PM

Well I got confirmation from WBNG 12 NY.

even though they are significantly viewed, If they are outside your DMA, there is nothing they can do. Thats right from the GM.

They said they have contracts that will prevent a neighboring CW from Entering their DMA. This forces you to watch your own market CW.

He said if its in their DMA, like 2 countys in Pa are, and Directv did not provide WBNG 12 to them, but carried some other market CW, then he could force Directv to add them as well.

But since Wayne is outside their DMA, even though its significantly viewed it doesn't matter.


Unfortunately this happens from time to time. Now its up to you if you want to accept that or possibly go higher up. It seems some stations are really reluctant to get involved with this. Keep in mind its usually neighboring DMA's so I image in some cases the two affiliates GM's know each other and are not willing to encroach on the others territory.

These battles are very similar to getting waivers approved. A few years ago before the law changed, I had to get approval from 3 different NBC stations even though only 1 was in my DMA. One of the ones that was not in my market straight up told me that they dont approve waivers. I had to inform him that I understood for his own DMA but I was not part of his DMA. He still refused until I called the owners of the company and explained it to him and forced him to sign off on it for me. It was sad. At that time we did not get our locals from DirecTV as there was no agreements with our DMA's stations. The funny thing is that my own DMA's NBC approved but this one in Arkansas (don't live in that state or DMA) refused. I am glad the owners helped me with the problem.

None of this stuff is easy and wont always work out. Its just a possibility and I like to exhaust all my options before I give up. I wonder if this guy would soften up if he had a few more people in that area call him requesting it. Something else you could do is see if he is offering his channel to another county that is out of his DMA on a cable system. It is more common on cable but for me I would call back and ask why he is okay with doing it on cable but not satellite. I know the laws are different but he didnt refer to the laws and more to agreements. I would think based on his response he wants to be standard across the board. I bet if you look hard enough, they are giving their signal to a out of market cable company.

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#58 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

NEPDatavision which serves portions of Susquehanna, Lackawanna and Wayne Counties in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre market have WBNG and several other Binghamton stations:
http://www.nep.net/i...php/tv/channels

#59 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:25 PM

NEPDatavision which serves portions of Susquehanna, Lackawanna and Wayne Counties in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre market have WBNG and several other Binghamton stations:
http://www.nep.net/i...php/tv/channels


Told ya. I would call back and ask about it. I would say I know what you said but I wanted to understand why an out of DMA cable co can get your station here but not DirecTV. Since that is kind of a slam I would then try to let him know how bad you want his channel and why.

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#60 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:27 PM

Something else you could do is see if he is offering his channel to another county that is out of his DMA on a cable system. .

They do give it out to other countys, BUT the Laws are different for cable, I was told their used to be a rule of thumb, If it can be picked up OTA with the proper equipment then cable can offer it.
Well thats most likly a grandfathered rule. And does not apply to Satellite TV.

The in market Networks have to approve the Out of Market networks, If they don't then Law and contracts forbid them. In my case the Scranton Wilkes barre local Fox 56 they already forced out Fox 5 NY from cable line up.

I don't know what you did to get what you got, But I don't see thats its possible. They have contracts, they aren't going to break them and get sued to give me another CW.:)

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#61 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:38 PM

NEPDatavision which serves portions of Susquehanna, Lackawanna and Wayne Counties in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre market have WBNG and several other Binghamton stations:
http://www.nep.net/i...php/tv/channels

NO I know what your saying but its not the same As I explained.

Directv also backed up my statement. If the other Networks don't disapprove of this then its OK. They would already be lit up in your line up.

These are Grandfathered cable clauses back long before Directv ever offered Binghamton or Scranton Wilkes barre locals period.

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#62 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:46 PM

They do give it out to other countys, BUT the Laws are different for cable, I was told their used to be a rule of thumb, If it can be picked up OTA with the proper equipment then cable can offer it.
Well thats most likly a grandfathered rule. And does not apply to Satellite TV.

The in market Networks have to approve the Out of Market networks, If they don't then Law and contracts forbid them. In my case the Scranton Wilkes barre local Fox 56 they already forced out Fox 5 NY from cable line up.

I don't know what you did to get what you got, But I don't see thats its possible. They have contracts, they aren't going to break them and get sued to give me another CW.:)


Its probably not worth fighting for a CW affiliate. That being said, the way I read your post he didnt want to do it because they were not allowed. Nothing about it was okay for Cable. Cable laws are different but I am sure the same rule of thumb applies and no affiliate wants another DMA's affiliate of the same network to air in their market regardless of it being on cable or satellite. To each their own. This fight might not be worth fighting but I can tell you if I took everyone for their initial responses, I would have no DNS stations and my county would have no significantly viewed stations either. Only the people who are passionate enough to find a way to make it happen or people who just get really lucky will get this this kind of stuff done. If your okay with leaving it as it lays then I am sorry it didnt work out but happy I tried to help you anyways.

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#63 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:52 PM

Only the people who are passionate enough to find a way to make it happen or people who just get really lucky will get this this kind of stuff done. If your okay with leaving it as it lays then I am sorry it didnt work out but happy I tried to help you anyways.

Well what do you suggest, hound the GM, where will that get me?

Give me a number of someone who will get it done.

It sounds like in your case Directv had the approval from the networks, they just didn't have them lit up for you.

You want to help , call NY4 and NY5. I just talked to WBMG General Manager for 25 minutes. Its not something he can change. So tell me what to do?:shrug:

Still haven't heard back from NY city networks.

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#64 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:53 PM

NO I know what your saying but its not the same As I explained.

Directv also backed up my statement. If the other Networks don't disapprove of this then its OK. They would already be lit up in your line up.

These are Grandfathered cable clauses back long before Directv ever offered Binghamton or Scranton Wilkes barre locals period.


I dont know if I believe all this either. Let me share something with you. We did not have any locals here a few years ago. The same guy (Danny Thomas) is over both the CBS and the FOX in my DMA. He openly told me he hated DirecTV and would never allow them to air his stations. Well when his demands were not being met with Dish in the renegotiation and my county offered CBS out of Tulsa to us, he quickly changed his mind.

He also would not sign off on any of my waivers prior to the locals. Besides the fact that someone else must have approved my waivers, I know for a fact that he would never approve of the significantly viewed stations we are getting. One of them is a CBS and I know he would not allow it if he could stop it. The law says DirecTV can do it. I am not saying that in some cases this is not true but I know in this case if it were true Danny would see to it DirecTV followed it.

Just to rub his smugness in his face I posted on his CBS's page a month or so ago. They posted a question asking what everyone was looking forward to the most about watching the Super Bowl on CBS and I post that I would be watching it on a out of market DMA's channel and not his and thank you to DirecTV for making it happen.

Also when I was working with the out of market DMA stations to get them added as significantly viewed I asked 3 different networks if that was an issue for them and only 1 said maybe. Then they came back and said we have new owners now and its not an issue.

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#65 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

. The law says DirecTV can do it. I am not saying that in some cases this is not true but I know in this case if it were true Danny would see to it DirecTV followed it.

.


I'm almost positive the Law is Directv is not aloud to provide out of market locals to DMA with IN market locals.
That was the SHIVA act

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#66 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

http://www.fcc.gov/g...ite-subscribers


Reception of “Significantly-Viewed” Stations

If you subscribe to local-into-local service and don’t qualify as an “unserved household,” you may be eligible to receive some distant stations if those stations are considered “significantly-viewed.” Your satellite TV company decides whether and which significantly-viewed stations to offer. You must be subscribing to local-into-local service to be eligible to receive significantly-viewed stations. Check with your satellite TV company to see if you qualify and what stations are on the significantly-viewed list for your area.



So this sounds more like Directv issue then Networks

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#67 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

I'm almost positive the Law is Directv is not aloud to provide out of market locals to DMA with IN market locals.
That was the SHIVA act


With the exception being SIGNIFICANTLY VIEWED stations. I will try to track this down later.

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#68 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

With the exception being SIGNIFICANTLY VIEWED stations. I will try to track this down later.


Below is part of this, most of it anyways. I am sure I can find where significantly viewed stations are not required to black out programming either. Click on this link and go to #15 on page 9 and start reading down. I will throw some highlights in here. The below comments do not say anything about if allowed or pending this or that other than they have to provide notice to the local station before providing the significantly viewed station. Like I said earlier, Danny Thomas would stop this if he could. Now reading this I know he is aware that some of his DMA gets an out of market CBS and soon (hopefully) FOX as well. I see nowhere where they can stop it. The only thing I think think of is a network agreement but that seems to differ between affiliates.

http://www.fcc.gov/d...amming-congress

. Section 122(a)(2) explicitly limits significantly viewed to the rules as adopted by the Commission as of April 15, 1976. Satellite carriers are required to provide notice to local stations before they commence carriage of significantly viewed stations. This notice requirement does not apply to cable systems carriage of significantly viewed stations. There are no market modification provisions regarding satellite carriers similar to those for cable operators.

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#69 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:21 PM

Well I got confirmation from WBNG 12 NY.

even though they are significantly viewed, If they are outside your DMA, there is nothing they can do. Thats right from the GM.

They said they have contracts that will prevent a neighboring CW from Entering their DMA. This forces you to watch your own market CW.

He said if its in their DMA, like 2 countys in Pa are, and Directv did not provide WBNG 12 to them, but carried some other market CW, then he could force Directv to add them as well.

But since Wayne is outside their DMA, even though its significanly viewed it doesn't matter.

The law on significantly view does say that just because a station qualifies to make the FCC's list doesn't mean the sat providers can carry it.

Basically the list doesn't mean squat. For New London, CT there's five stations listed from RI but DIRECTV only carries two of them & only in SD.

Mike

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#70 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:21 PM

I wish we had it. I live out near Lancaster County, PA, but in Chester County (Philly DMA). WGAL is from Lancaster City and it was easy to pick up OTA in the analog days. (they want digital channel 8, but I now only have a UHF antenna).

Comcast carries it, but D* doesn't.

Wish they would.

#71 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

The law on significantly view does say that just because a station qualifies to make the FCC's list doesn't mean the sat providers can carry it.

Basically the list doesn't mean squat. For New London, CT there's five stations listed from RI but DIRECTV only carries two of them & only in SD.

Mike

Yep this is what I gathered from the phone call I made. I think most cases its beyond the control of Directv and the Neighboring markets.
NO means NO! Or its Lawsuits that out of market networks won't get involved in. I don't blaim them.:)



But the fact that Directv is able to offer DNS service based on their abilities , I think they should be aloud to offer them for a Fee to any costomer that wants to pay for them.

My question is why can Dish customers get a Full superstaion pack , But Directv can't offer the other DNS channels?

Edited by damondlt, 01 March 2013 - 08:16 PM.

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#72 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

Can you do the same for Monroe County, PA which is in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre DMA? Our list currently has:
WCBS NYC
KYW Philly (CBS)
WNBC NYC
WNYW NYC (Fox)
WPVI Philly (ABC)
WCAU Philly (NBC)

The big station that is missing from the list is WABC, I really want to see them join.

Our local Blue Ridge Cable system also has the following stations that should join the list too:
WWOR NYC (MyNet)
WPIX NYC (CW)
WLVT Allentown (PBS, while non-commercial stations aren't eligible for the SV list it would be nice to get an additional option for PBS programming)
WFMZ Allentown (Independent station in the northern part of the Philly DMA that covers local news from the northern suburbs of Philly to the Poconos)

At one point they also had WPSG and WPHL out of Philly but they dumped them to make room for our local MyNet affiliate when it launched.


Okay, the lower list I might be able to help with at a later date but for now I will focus on WABC. I called the Blue Ridge Cable Co and they were not very bright at all. I found that they had WABC on their Milford PA channel lineup but needed to know if that is part of the New York DMA or your DMA. They did not know much to my surprise. I had to ask my contact with the FCC. I have called and left a message with the Chief Engineer at WABC to call me back. At this time WABC is not on the significantly viewed list and the only thing they might relate to so far is that WCBS and WNBC are significantly viewed in your county.

I would like to find a cable co that is in Monroe county that carries WABC. Maybe if you could help me with a list of cable companies there if you know them. I can search more online too but am not familiar with that area of the country. It would also help if I knew the town you lived in. The close the town to you in Monroe county that carries WABC the better.

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#73 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

Okay, the lower list I might be able to help with at a later date but for now I will focus on WABC. I called the Blue Ridge Cable Co and they were not very bright at all. I found that they had WABC on their Milford PA channel lineup but needed to know if that is part of the New York DMA or your DMA. They did not know much to my surprise. I had to ask my contact with the FCC. I have called and left a message with the Chief Engineer at WABC to call me back. At this time WABC is not on the significantly viewed list and the only thing they might relate to so far is that WCBS and WNBC are significantly viewed in your county.

I would like to find a cable co that is in Monroe county that carries WABC. Maybe if you could help me with a list of cable companies there if you know them. I can search more online too but am not familiar with that area of the country. It would also help if I knew the town you lived in. The close the town to you in Monroe county that carries WABC the better.


I just got a call back from Kurt Hanson (Chief Engineer) who seemed not that interested. I explained the position and the need and that WNBC and WCBS were already on the list and he said he would speak with the legal team and see if they want to do it. I will wait a week and call him back to see what they say.

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#74 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

Milford is in Pike country which is part of the NYC DMA.

I live in Tobyhanna, unfortunately I don't know of any cable provider that has WABC in our county. Maybe one of the towns that border Pike country have it, but the main Blue Ridge system that serves Monroe county doesn't have it. The fact that they're not on the list while the others are on the list could have something to do with it. It's interesting though that out of all the NYC big 4 stations, WABC isn't on any of the lists, even in the other direction where WCBS, WNBC and WNYW are on the list for several counties in the Hartford market. DirecTV does provide them to portions of that market, but not here. Oddly enough after the digital transition, WABC is the only NYC station we get over the air on a semi-regular basis and would probably get on a regular basis if I didn't have to keep the antenna pointed in the opposite direction to get our local CBS and NBC station.

As for WPIX and WWOR they likely had no motive to get on the list when it was drawn up in the 70s since they were still independent stations with no competing affiliate the cable systems had to protect. They also had carriage on many out of market cable systems via their old superstation C-Band feeds that up until the late 80s were simulcasts of the over the air station.

I just got a call back from Kurt Hanson (Chief Engineer) who seemed not that interested. I explained the position and the need and that WNBC and WCBS were already on the list and he said he would speak with the legal team and see if they want to do it. I will wait a week and call him back to see what they say.

WNYW is also on the list for our county, the cable system just doesn't carry it anymore because WOLF forced them off. Not sure if that would apply to satellite though since the significantly viewed lists also protects the out of market station from being blacked out.

#75 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:13 PM

Well what do you suggest, hound the GM, where will that get me?

Give me a number of someone who will get it done.

It sounds like in your case Directv had the approval from the networks, they just didn't have them lit up for you.

You want to help , call NY4 and NY5. I just talked to WBMG General Manager for 25 minutes. Its not something he can change. So tell me what to do?:shrug:

Still haven't heard back from NY city networks.


Man, this is really pushing it. There is little upside to the affiliates to do this (WNBC & WNYW). They are 100 miles away from your county, no major NY station is offered there even though they are on the significantly viewed list. I guess the best thing going is the fact that they are on the list and had to request to be added to it to get that status. That being said, I doubt they were asking for this area. Both stations are a VHF station which would be difficult to get even on an antenna. I will still make the effort but just know the chances are slim here.

As for WBNG, can you clarify if it is CBS or CW you are really after? Only the CW is on the list as significantly viewed. It looks like once upon a time this station was a major network. You are fortunate that the CW is on the list but less fortunate that it is not the CBS sister channel. I will try to follow up on this as well.

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