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ESPN Ordered to Pay Dish Network $4.86 Million for Breach of Contract


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#21 OFFLINE   donalddickerson2005

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:04 AM

Because DirecTV bribed the NFL for exclusive rights. Oh, wait, that's called a contract payment, not a bribe. And DirecTV did it because they believed (and still do, apparently, since they keep re-upping the contract) that enough people will choose DirecTV simply because they have NFL Sunday Ticket to justify the cost. Ad revenue from Sunday Ticket is a small part of the NFL's payment for programming. It is a huge part of ESPN's.

Let's look at it this way also dish doesn't carry mlbei. If dish loses ABC ESPN and Disney they will lose more than half there subscriptions. At that point dish would have to merge with someone and then who knows what will happen.
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#22 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

Some probably will leave but there will be others that wont even miss any of the abc/espn channels


I wouldn't miss all ABC, ESPN channels. I don't watch any of them.

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#23 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

I think in this case it would be a lot more than some. No family with kids under 10 would be able to go without the Disney channels for an extended period. Also, even casual sports fans would be annoyed with the loss of ESPN. The only sport I watch regularly is college football for 3 months out of the year. ESPN is probably more than half of that. Not having that would be a real nuisance.

I would not expect a long term loss of either the Disney Channels or ESPN...but let's not kid ourselves that Dish could just do without them. This is not AMC or Lifetime....Dish would lose millions of customers.


When my son was growing up, he was allowed to watch anything on PBS.

Looking at PBS morning lineup, it's still children's programming almost all morning long. That should be plenty of entertainment for the kiddies. If you need more, DVR it. Disney doesn't have exclusive rights for babysitting the kid crowd. Most kids I know nowadays are into their handheld electronics more than tv anyway.

O.K.
I get JL's explanation. It doesn't make me feel any better, but I get it.
So, since we all have to take a bite out of this crap sandwich, why such a big bite? I think that's what gauls most people, especially those who couldn't care less about ESPN.
Does anyone know what a sub pays for MLBN or SPEED? The stand alone's offer more, IMO.

Maybe this should have been posted under phrelin's other post [ ESPN to hit 8$] but the idea is the same.

just my 2 cents

Edited by satcrazy, 01 March 2013 - 01:00 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

When my son was growing up, he was allowed to watch anything on PBS.

Looking at PBS morning lineup, it's still children's programming almost all morning long. That should be plenty of entertainment for the kiddies. If you need more, DVR it. Disney doesn't have exclusive rights for babysitting the kid crowd. Most kids I know nowadays are into their handheld electronics more than tv anyway.

O.K.
I get JL's explanation. It doesn't make me feel any better, but I get it.
So, since we all have to take a bite out of this crap sandwich, why such a big bite? I think that's what gauls most people, especially those who couldn't care less about ESPN.
Does anyone know what a sub pays for MLBN or SPEED? The stand alone's offer more, IMO.


I'm all for Dish trying to put the squeeze on Disney/ESPN as much as they can. That being said, if anyone really thinks Dish would survive as a company if they long term lost ABC/Disney/ESPN...they're fooling themselves. ESPN is not just another sports channel...it is THE sports channel. Lose that and Dish should just go ahead and cancel every other bit of sports programming they have because that subscriber segment is gone. Should kids be able to go without Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Doc. Mcstuffins, etc etc...sure. I sure as hell ain't gonna win that battle with my 5 year old. Throw in ABC and forget it. Dish would be done. They would never see 10MM+ subscribers ever again.

All hypothetical anyway...Dish is not going to drop them.
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#25 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

I'm all for Dish trying to put the squeeze on Disney/ESPN as much as they can. That being said, if anyone really thinks Dish would survive as a company if they long term lost ABC/Disney/ESPN...your fooling yourself. ESPN is not just another sports channel...it is THE sports channel. Lose that and Dish should just go ahead and cancel every other bit of sports programming they have because that subscriber segment is gone. Should kids be able to go without Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Doc. Mcstuffins, etc etc...sure. I sure as hell ain't gonna win that battle with my 5 year old. Throw in ABC and forget it. Dish would be done. They would never see 10MM+ subscribers ever again.

All hypothetical anyway...Dish is not going to drop them.


I'm sure there's a bunch of folks out there that couldn't care less about the ESPN channels, along with all the other sports channels. It might even work to their advantage if they could really show a price difference between themselves and the others. ABC, give away free OTA adapters and an inside antenna and help keep those folks. DISNEY, give away more free Roku units or build in access to Hulu on the STB's. They will lose some subs but they might just make out OK.

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#26 OFFLINE   pfred

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:31 PM

Netflix , roku, and other internet replacements for cable/satellite are here. It is in Dish's own best interest to try and keep customers from "cutting the cord" so to speak, and making a sports tier is therefore a good idea.

#27 ONLINE   Curtis0620

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:43 PM

Netflix , roku, and other internet replacements for cable/satellite are here. It is in Dish's own best interest to try and keep customers from "cutting the cord" so to speak, and making a sports tier is therefore a good idea.


ESPN will never allow that.
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#28 OFFLINE   donalddickerson2005

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

If y'all just called everyday and said we do not want ABC - ESPN - Disney they might listen. Who knows maybe while your at it tell them you do not want cable news or any of the the home-food networks.
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#29 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

If dropping ESPN or putting it in a sports tier is such a great idea, then why hasn't it been done?

The SEC & Big 10 have quite a few games on ESPN/ABC. Try telling the states of Alabama/Michigan/Ohio sorry you all can't see your Tide/Wolverine/Buckeye football games or the BCS Bowls. This years title game was the second largest audience of any program in cable television history, an average of 17,216,000 households...and average of 26,380,000 viewers. Guess what was number 1...that's right, the 2011 title game with 17,718,000 homes and 27,316,000 people (same link).
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#30 OFFLINE   LtMunst

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

This idea that Dish could become some sports free, Disney free, ABC free, a la carte Utopia is just a fantasy. If Dish dumped ESPN/ABC/Disney...they would be done. Dish would be a laughingstock.

It ain't gonna happen. Charlie talks a good game...and he may even squeeze a good deal out of it.....but he is not suicidal.
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#31 OFFLINE   pfred

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

If dropping ESPN or putting it in a sports tier is such a great idea, then why hasn't it been done?

Because it hasn't reached , shall we say, "critical mass".

#32 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:32 PM

Dish is not going to lose ESPN. I doubt it even would go dark for 24 hours.

ESPN needs/wants that revenue... and Dish wouldn't take the risk of losing a large number of customers if a negotiation like that dragged on.

For those comparing ESPN to HBO... That is apples to oranges.

A better comparison is comparing ESPN that you don't like to all the channels others don't like but pay for so you can have them in the same tier.

We are all subsidizing each other.

Again, we can debate that... but I feel pretty confident that a la cart would inevitably lead us to paying the same prices for far less channels as the only channels that would survive would be the ones that people were willing to pay the most to keep... so be careful what you wish for!

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#33 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:50 PM

This idea that Dish could become some sports free, Disney free, ABC free, a la carte Utopia is just a fantasy. If Dish dumped ESPN/ABC/Disney...they would be done. Dish would be a laughingstock.

It ain't gonna happen. Charlie talks a good game...and he may even squeeze a good deal out of it.....but he is not suicidal.


O.K.
Fair enough.
However, still no answer as to why we have to take such a large bite out of that crap sandwich.:eek2
There are a dozen or so channels I would much rather contribute an increase towards, ESPN isn't one of them.
The finacial side of sports is out of control and everyone knows it.

I also refuse to pay top dollar at the theatre so that another movie star makes their $20 mill paycheck. But at least I have that choice.

#34 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

ESPN is not one of my go to channels ... the only time I watch it is when they put something there that normally I watch on other sports channels. I wish they were not the poster child for high priced channels ... but they got there by getting in at the base level and fighting to stay there.

I defend ESPN's choice to be one of the core basic channels on cable and satellite. I defend HBO's choice to be a premium channel package. Both are locked into their current strategies enough that if ESPN decided to go premium and HBO decided to go basic they both would end up losing.

Some strategies work better for some channels than others.

I understand the two strategies. But the ESPN strategy is caught in an economic whirlwind.

Let's pretend for a moment that ESPN's costs were tied to gasoline prices. In 1993 the price for gasoline according the Department of Energy data was around $1.00 per gallon. Using the CPI today that gasoline should be around $1.60 per gallon. We all know it is far more than that.

What ESPN sells has had cost increases similar to gasoline. The oil companies, with the support of the U.S. Senate, cannot tell me that if I want to ride a bicycle on the street instead of drive, that's fine as long as pay them as if I'm using gasoline at a rate of 25 miles to the gallon.

But if I want to watch FX and USA, I pay ESPN's skyrocketing prices. Others don't have to pay HBO. So I think it's time to stop my being forced to subsidize professional, or for that matter college, sports.

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#35 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

If dropping ESPN or putting it in a sports tier is such a great idea, then why hasn't it been done?






It's the Gordon Gecko syndrome....

#36 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:14 PM

I don't see Dish and ESPN parting ways, but I do see disputes coming. I can forsee Dish playing hardball with ESPN in most packages and to most subscribers. I can see a fight over some lower tier packages losing ESPN.

To be honest, the ESPN charge is over the top and I can see a good chunk of folks simply not wanting it. This is the battle for the future, the # of subs that any provider can have in a package w/o ESPN.

#37 OFFLINE   Hunter844

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

This dispute has been going on for a long time. It may be that both Dish and ABC/ESPN are ready to put this all behind them and work toward amicable agreement. It doesn't have to be a knockdown drag out deal like we saw with AMC. I for one would like to get ESPNU in HD before I'm old and gray.
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#38 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

Let's pretend for a moment that ESPN's costs were tied to gasoline prices. In 1993 the price for gasoline according the Department of Energy data was around $1.00 per gallon. Using the CPI today that gasoline should be around $1.60 per gallon. We all know it is far more than that.


Probably not the best example... gasoline is a finite product... in other words, there is far less capability of converting existing crude today to gasoline than there was in 1993... because we have used a lot of it up in the intervening 20 years.

As time goes by, we will continue to exhaust the supply... so expect the gasoline prices to continue an upward trend over time.

With sports, however, as long as we have people... they will be making new/more sports. We aren't exhausting the supply of sports :)

But if I want to watch FX and USA, I pay ESPN's skyrocketing prices. Others don't have to pay HBO. So I think it's time to stop my being forced to subsidize professional, or for that matter college, sports.


Still comparing apple to oranges.

HBO chose to be alone... ESPN chose to be in a tier. Compare HBO to other similar standalone channels... Compare ESPN to other channels in a tier.

I'm paying for your FX and USA and whatever you like to watch so that I can watch ESPN. You are paying for my ESPN so that you can watch FX and USA.

IF we separate one from the other, then I bet ESPN survives longer than FX.

In the end, you would have the choice of paying for ESPN or not... but many of the other channels you like would be gone.

Today you have that same choice... pay for ESPN and watch channels you like... or don't, and cut the cord.

Packages and tiers truly evolved because when faced with the prospect of a bundle discount, people almost always opt to pay for a package even if it contains some stuff they don't want so that they get a bundle discount.

Channels like the bundles too... so it ends up working for everyone. That is how we got to wherever we are now... through consumer choice supporting the current model. IF it wasn't a desired model by most consumers, then we wouldn't be here.

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#39 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

What Stewart said.

No one wants to pay for the channels they don't watch. I'd drop down a tier in my package, but there is one freakin' channel in the tier I'm in that is a "must have" for us, so I end up paying for a bunch of channels we never watch.

There are a significant number of people that would be fine if ESPN was gone. Same way, a lot of people who say, hey, the big 4 networks suck, you could drop them and I'd be fine, I can get them by OTA anyway. And on and on and on.

The problem for Dish is that ESPN is a major network, with a lot of visibility, and there are a lot of people who would indeed move to DirectTV if all else was fairly equal and DTV had the ESPN channels and Dish did not. Yeah, if Dish was then half the cost of DirectTV but they won't be, and it appears from various studies most people do not decide which of the two to go with by a few dollars difference, but rather by the channel lineups and other features.)

Heck, we had a TON of people in our area that dropped cable and moved to a satellite provider simply because the cable provider switched their local RSN and dropped the current one. They lost enough people that they eventually added the old RSN back, but by then people had switched and had no desire to switch back.

#40 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

Probably not the best example... gasoline is a finite product... in other words, there is far less capability of converting existing crude today to gasoline than there was in 1993... because we have used a lot of it up in the intervening 20 years.

As time goes by, we will continue to exhaust the supply... so expect the gasoline prices to continue an upward trend over time.

Environmentalists may consider the gasoline supply to be limited ... but most people don't treat it as a limited supply. Conservation measures are minimal and it seems much of the conservation comes from not wanting to pay for it.

Eventually the actual limit on the supply of gasoline will catch up with the world ... but for now it seems to be more of a political issue. Some countries have oil and don't mind pulling it out of the ground and selling it. Other countries don't want to pull the oil out of their own ground or territorial waters so they buy from the countries that don't mind. Much of the "limited supply" comes from decisions such as these.

And that is where artificially limited supply on programming comes in. There is literally an infinite supply of a programmer's content. The feeds of the NFL could be shown to 100 people or 100 million without exhausting the supply. The decision to limit that content to less than 20 million people (whatever the subscriber level of NFL Sunday Ticket is) was not forced because there was only so many widgets to hand out. If the NFL wanted to distribute additional copies they could.

And if the world wanted more oil all they have to do is go get it. Eventually the planet will run out of oil ... but we're not there yet.

With sports, however, as long as we have people... they will be making new/more sports. We aren't exhausting the supply of sports :)

At some point we will hit critical mass on how many people the world can support. Some think we're already there.

There is a limit on how many hours people can spend watching sports ... and after a while new sports and new feeds of existing sports simply dilutes the marketplace.




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