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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DirecTV interface performance / MIPS SoC limitations? Frame-buffer bottleneck?


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#51 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:03 AM

I think the only reason is that if you have an HR34/HR44 you can control everything from the client but not from the DVRs.


So, you gotta get up and walk a few steps. Still rather have DVRs.

DirecTV likes the client idea because it saves them money. The clients must cost them $8 or so!;) And they get to charge the same as if they were receivers.


Yeah, I get that. For most folks I'm sure it's a good thing. If they've never tried the better way.

I personally wouldn't use a client because of what I saw yesterday. The C31 clients bring a new definition to 'SLOW'. Can't FFWD or even move up and down the menus and play list without the thing losing its mind! Pretty sad...


Were you surprised?.... :lol:

Rich

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#52 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:18 AM

So, you gotta get up and walk a few steps. Still rather have DVRs.



Don't want to burn off any calories! I get it - and for you and me it doesn't make much sense but I see how someone with 2 or 3 TVs would rather have 'centralized' management.

Yeah, I get that. For most folks I'm sure it's a good thing. If they've never tried the better way.


I wouldn't doubt if someday soon DirecTV cranks up the price of the standard HD DVRs to 'encourage' people to use the clients. Makes life better for DirecTV!

Were you surprised?.... :lol:

Rich


Believe it or not I was surprised! I was expecting the C31 to be slower than my HR24s but I didn't expect them to be even slower than my old HR22s! I expected to be able to do basic things like scroll down the play list without the thing taking off down the list... These have been available for something like a year now right? Still looks like they are in alpha testing!

Downright embarrassing!

#53 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

You want to see crappy performance? Try the UI at Hulu+, try the NetFlix UI, try a BD player or a VCR. I don't see anything terrible about the HRs as they stand now. I don't have a 34 or a 44, don't need anymore tuners and don't want clients that don't record, but none of my HRs is anywhere near "crappy" as far as performance goes.

Rich


I use all those on my AppleTV and bluray player and they are both faster than my HR24s were, though not nearly as fast as Dish's gear.

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#54 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

I use all those on my AppleTV and bluray player and they are both faster than my HR24s were, though not nearly as fast as Dish's gear.


I should have been clearer. I meant the functions like FF and RR and things like that. Hulu+ is damn near impossible to control. NF is better, but I'm always happy when I return to and HR and have better control over those features. My newest Panny plasma has a better NF UI than any of the BD players which I use for streaming.

Rich

#55 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

Ah, OK. Yeah, their interface does suck, but it is certainly quick enough.

All trickplay with them is such an effort in futility so I never use it.

I primarily use my AppleTV for streaming, but use the BD player for AmazonPrime and VUDU. My Mitsi TV has VUDU and 'VUDU apps', but I don't use it at all for that.

I keep hoping someone will actually bring out a 'one size fits all' box for streaming, but I think it is a false hope! :(

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#56 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

The clients must cost them $8 or so!;)

The hardware may be cheap but there are likely some serious technology licensing fees involved. I'm pretty sure HDMI is still abusive and I have to imagine that they charge a hefty license fee for RVU; something that the other boxes don't bear.

I suspect that the exclusion of ATSC tuners had something to do with licensing fee costs as well. Westinghouse went to court to fight a $23/unit ATSC licensing fee back in the day.
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#57 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:04 AM

Back to the topic.

I'm still not convinced by the reason as HDGUI swap; most likely that time DTV added some heavy CPU load by, say, Java applets or new DB engine or something like that....

#58 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:42 AM

The hardware may be cheap but there are likely some serious technology licensing fees involved. I'm pretty sure HDMI is still abusive and I have to imagine that they charge a hefty license fee for RVU; something that the other boxes don't bear.

I suspect that the exclusion of ATSC tuners had something to do with licensing fee costs as well. Westinghouse went to court to fight a $23/unit ATSC licensing fee back in the day.


Maybe so but except for the RVU stuff the real receivers have the same fees.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if DirecTV's goal is to be rid of everything but the Genie and its clients and a simple receiver like the H25. Maximize their profit and simplify the installs. Win-win for DirecTV.

Now if they could only make the software work as well as the hardware.

#59 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:46 AM

Back to the topic.

I'm still not convinced by the reason as HDGUI swap; most likely that time DTV added some heavy CPU load by, say, Java applets or new DB engine or something like that....


Could be - but even now - after multiple updates since - my HR24s are not as fast as they used to be - before the HDGUI screw up. I'm still at least 'ok' with the speed of my HR24s, at least most of the time. Much much better than my HR22s that's for sure!

It would be great to know what goes through the minds of the people in DirecTV engineering. Especially whoever it is that decides where the money and time should be spent.

#60 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:29 AM

The SD-GUI was horrendous! The HD GUI added a huge improvement in guide page scrolling speed and better contrast / aesthetics.

I just think it needs to be optimized. It feels incomplete and slow without any contextual motion. It is incomplete, check Scoreguide, ACTIVE, weather ch overlay and interactive sports overlays. Those aren't even HD at all. It really reminds me of TiVo Premiere when it came out. Slow and not 100% complete.

Speaking of TiVo Premiere, they didn't even port that current TiVo to DirecTV. Instead they ported what... A 6 year old product to an aging piece of hardware? If only DirecTV would just outsource and let Apple design their hardware and software. Then at least it would have real complete aesthetics and performance marched with the highly superior ARM based CPU's instead of these Pentium II 400 MHz like MIPS based jalopy's we have today.

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My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST: Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

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#61 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:46 AM

The SD-GUI was horrendous! The HD GUI added a huge improvement in guide page scrolling speed and better contrast / aesthetics.


That wasn't my experience... The HDGUI slowed all three of my HR24s down and caused odd things to happen. Most of those troubles are mostly fixed now but they are still not as fast as they were before the HDGUI.

Better contrast and aesthetics - sure - but that was simple color changes - didn't need to screw-the-pooch for a color change!

#62 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:01 AM

Mike are your HR24's the problematic -500 version? I have HR24-200 and H24-200. I think the -200's feel faster to me than the -500's. not to mention in various issues threads it seems like the -500's are always plagued with problems. I like the Samsung made stuff. Just wish I could over clock it. The non DVR is pretty fast. Still feature incomplete though.

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My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST: Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#63 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:02 AM

That wasn't my experience... The HDGUI slowed all three of my HR24s down and caused odd things to happen. Most of those troubles are mostly fixed now but they are still not as fast as they were before the HDGUI.

Better contrast and aesthetics - sure - but that was simple color changes - didn't need to screw-the-pooch for a color change!

You can't judge by look of your 'car' if you don't know if the 'engine' changed too.
We don't know what else changed in FW that time!

#64 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

Mike are your HR24's the problematic -500 version? I have HR24-200 and H24-200. I think the -200's feel faster to me than the -500's. not to mention in various issues threads it seems like the -500's are always plagued with problems. I like the Samsung made stuff. Just wish I could over clock it. The non DVR is pretty fast. Still feature incomplete though.


All three are -500. Really as far as problems go (other than I would like them to be as fast as Dish Network receivers) I have 1 that I have to restart once a week or after 10 days or so it will just stop responding for 3 or 4 minutes at a time.

Occasionally I have a hiccup here or there but not too horrible. My bitch, as always, is that they need to instantly respond to the remote - I shouldn't be able to get ahead of the DVR by pushing buttons.

Need-for-speed.

#65 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:27 AM

You can't judge by look of your 'car' if you don't know if the 'engine' changed too.
We don't know what else changed in FW that time!


Of course - they could have made any number of changes that have nothing to do with the HDGUI but it was at that 'update' when things really got screwed.

Again - they have more recently fixed most of the issues they added then but the speed has not returned to what it was the day before the 'upgrade'. It is 'tolerable' to me but not by much.

#66 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

I remember that when the HD GUI was announced, it was promised to improve GUI performance and everyone cheered that prospect. So, the DVR GUI performance was complained about LONG before the HD GUI appeared.

We have 2 H25-500s, 2 HR24s (a 100 and a 500), 2 HR21s (a 100 and a 700) and HR34. None of them any real have problems (I can't remember the last time we rebooted the HR2xs). The performance of the HR21s are sluggish, but only the one with an external 1TB drive gets really slow, and then only when the disk fills up. I personally move between one of the H25s, the 2 HR24s, and the HR34 without really noticing any big differences in performance.

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#67 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

Ah, OK. Yeah, their interface does suck, but it is certainly quick enough.


Yup, it's quick, but accuracy is lost in that speed. If I miss something and want to back up, it's an ordeal.

All trickplay with them is such an effort in futility so I never use it.


That's what I was talking about. My Panny plasma has NF and it has the best NF interface I've seen so far. Trickplay is easy, but I can't get 5.1 sound with the TV.

I primarily use my AppleTV for streaming, but use the BD player for AmazonPrime and VUDU. My Mitsi TV has VUDU and 'VUDU apps', but I don't use it at all for that.


Haven't tried the new Apple TV, but I've read some reports on it and they weren't favorable. Roku is supposed to update it's older models to the same level as the new Rokus this month. I think I still have one laying around somewhere and if the update actually takes place I'd prefer to use that. I've got to replace a BD player that is integrated into a sound system. The BD player still works well, but doesn't have access to all the new features on NF.

I keep hoping someone will actually bring out a 'one size fits all' box for streaming, but I think it is a false hope! :(


For that, I'd choose the Roku. 750 channels. Amazing.

Rich

#68 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

That wasn't my experience... The HDGUI slowed all three of my HR24s down and caused odd things to happen. Most of those troubles are mostly fixed now but they are still not as fast as they were before the HDGUI.

Better contrast and aesthetics - sure - but that was simple color changes - didn't need to screw-the-pooch for a color change!


I'll agree with that wholeheartedly.

Rich

#69 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

Mike are your HR24's the problematic -500 version? I have HR24-200 and H24-200. I think the -200's feel faster to me than the -500's. not to mention in various issues threads it seems like the -500's are always plagued with problems. I like the Samsung made stuff. Just wish I could over clock it. The non DVR is pretty fast. Still feature incomplete though.


I've had them all and see little difference in the performance of the 3 models. The 200 was fine, the 100s are amazingly good (for a 100) and the 500s are just as good as the other 2 models. I've only got 500s and 100s. The 200 is difficult (nearly impossible) to put an internal HDD in and just about forces anyone that owns one to use an external device with it.

Rich

#70 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

I've had them all and see little difference in the performance of the 3 models. The 200 was fine, the 100s are amazingly good (for a 100) and the 500s are just as good as the other 2 models. I've only got 500s and 100s. The 200 is difficult (nearly impossible) to put an internal HDD in and just about forces anyone that owns one to use an external device with it.

Rich


A buddy of mine has an HR24-500 and it just seemed incredibly slow and laggy compared to my HR24-200. Granted that was months ago and he does not participate in any of the DirecTV exclusive software testing like me. Also a lot of the issues posts people complain about weird oddities with their -500 model. A lot of it has been disappearing AM21 channels, but there have been numerous other issues reported that people with -200's didn't experience (or report).

But in terms of speed... My H24 runs circles around my HR24. Shame you can't just plug in a USB2.0 drive to an H24 and it automatically become a single tuner DVR to add to the MRV pool.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST: Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, Up, Music Choice Play HD, Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

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HR24-200

 


#71 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

A buddy of mine has an HR24-500 and it just seemed incredibly slow and laggy compared to my HR24-200. Granted that was months ago and he does not participate in any of the DirecTV exclusive software testing like me. Also a lot of the issues posts people complain about weird oddities with their -500 model. A lot of it has been disappearing AM21 channels, but there have been numerous other issues reported that people with -200's didn't experience (or report).


I have six 500s and have no problems with them. I have a large MRV system and the 500s work well in that system. No complaints about the 500s here.

But in terms of speed... My H24 runs circles around my HR24.


Easily explained, I'm sure you know why.

Shame you can't just plug in a USB2.0 drive to an H24 and it automatically become a single tuner DVR to add to the MRV pool.


Dream on... :lol:

#72 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

Haven't tried the new Apple TV, but I've read some reports on it and they weren't favorable. Roku is supposed to update it's older models to the same level as the new Rokus this month. I think I still have one laying around somewhere and if the update actually takes place I'd prefer to use that. I've got to replace a BD player that is integrated into a sound system. The BD player still works well, but doesn't have access to all the new features on NF.

For that, I'd choose the Roku. 750 channels. Amazing.

Rich


The AppleTV is absolutely perfect in that it does exactly what it is designed to do. The few complaints are generally about what it doesn't do and how adding whatever the writer figures is important, would make it better.

I'm a Mac person and fully into the Mac ecosystem, so an AppleTV is at least one part of the streaming puzzle. Gives me iTunes, and allows for sharing my iTunes library with it (can't do that with anything else I'm aware of). Also covers HuluPlus and Netflix with the best interface I've seen to them so far.

But I I have to shift to the BluRay player if I want to use Amazon Prime, or use my DLNA server.

Of course, with just a little bit more effort I could do all of it with just the AppleTV and MacBook Pro by using the Airplay function and mirroring whatever from the laptop to the ATV. That works very well, I just don't do it.

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#73 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 01:47 PM

...For that, I'd choose the Roku. 750 channels. Amazing.

Rich


I agree with you, however, probably 700 of those 750 channels are useless.

The AppleTV is absolutely perfect in that it does exactly what it is designed to do. The few complaints are generally about what it doesn't do and how adding whatever the writer figures is important, would make it better.

I'm a Mac person and fully into the Mac ecosystem, so an AppleTV is at least one part of the streaming puzzle. Gives me iTunes, and allows for sharing my iTunes library with it (can't do that with anything else I'm aware of). Also covers HuluPlus and Netflix with the best interface I've seen to them so far.

But I I have to shift to the BluRay player if I want to use Amazon Prime, or use my DLNA server.

Of course, with just a little bit more effort I could do all of it with just the AppleTV and MacBook Pro by using the Airplay function and mirroring whatever from the laptop to the ATV. That works very well, I just don't do it.


For a "Mac person" AppleTV is the obvious choice. In our household, while we have two iPhones and an iPad, we have 3 Windows PCs and a MacBook Pro that runs Windows as often as it runs Lion.

We have a Roku XS that gives us access to Amazon, Netflix, Hulu+, Vudu (plus a host of other services) and can access anything else through PlayOn and a PC. We also have a Panasonic BD player that also covers Netflix, Hulu+, Amazon and Vudu. My daughter has a WD Live that covers all the major services and has a Slingbox client. Of all of them, I'd pick the Roku as the best all around streaming solution available.

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#74 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:02 PM

But in terms of speed... My H24 runs circles around my HR24. Shame you can't just plug in a USB2.0 drive to an H24 and it automatically become a single tuner DVR to add to the MRV pool.


Dish Network used to do that with one of their HD receivers! I don't see DirecTV ever ever ever doing that!

#75 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

I remember that when the HD GUI was announced, it was promised to improve GUI performance and everyone cheered that prospect. So, the DVR GUI performance was complained about LONG before the HD GUI appeared.


Absolutely! GUI performance since the release the HR20 - especially the HR21/22/23s has ALWAYS been slower than I would like (It is all about me!). I didn't come along until the HR22 personally...

When the HR24 came out and I saw them in action I paid $600 to be rid of my boat-anchor ready HR22s. Life was pretty good until DirecTV granted the wish of the HDGUI. All three of my HR24-500s slowed way down and started having some of the same troubles I had with my HR22s. All in the name of essentially a color change called the HDGUI.

It took maybe 6 or 7 months and a handful of updates to get my HR24-500s to where they are today. Mostly ok but slower than I'd like and still not as fast as they were when I spent $600 to get them.




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