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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Networking issue, different subnets


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32 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

perhaps if no DHCP service responding to requests for IP ? but coexist ? who have a sniffer to reveal the rumor ? ;)


I have a sniffer, and an HR34, but I don't have any RVU clients to check it out. I'm just trusting what VOS says.
Dish Network Customer from 1998-2001
DirecTV Customer since October, 2001
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Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

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#22 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:57 PM

real old style one ? with IBM card ? or some current SW kind ? how you managing sniffing network with switches ?

#23 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:37 AM

Wow...haven't seen a hardware sniffer in years and years. The one I have is software based. Switches aren't a problem, depending on what you are doing. In this case, the packets would pass through switches in the direction of the router, and you can connect the sniffer node with a hub, just in front of the router. You could also manually change the router table, but a lot of routers designed for the home don't let you do that.

But mostly these days a "sniffer" is useful for looking at packet structure for specific protocols rather than the addressing headers. It's not like the old days when you used them to analyze traffic and balance loads. The routers and switches have "solved" that problem.
Dish Network Customer from 1998-2001
DirecTV Customer since October, 2001
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

#24 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:35 AM

Oh well ... :rolleyes:

Edited my former post.

Did not know the HR34-C31 IP pairing used the 169.254.xxx.xxx APIPA protocol.

Does anyone know if this applies to the RVU capable (Samsung) Smart TVs too? But then they would need two IP addresses wouldn't they? An APIPA one for RVU connectivity to the HR34 and of course a standard LAN 192.168.xxx.xxx one for the home network and internet connection.


My thinking is that the RVU devices (non-Genie Clients) just use their regular IP address for connecting back to their server. As these devices are not contained on the DECA cloud, they need to have the regular IP address for the home network and Internet access as you mentioned. In the case of the Genie Clients, they are using the server for all access, hence why they can just have the APIPA address.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#25 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

Wow...haven't seen a hardware sniffer in years and years. The one I have is software based. Switches aren't a problem, depending on what you are doing. In this case, the packets would pass through switches in the direction of the router, and you can connect the sniffer node with a hub, just in front of the router. You could also manually change the router table, but a lot of routers designed for the home don't let you do that.

But mostly these days a "sniffer" is useful for looking at packet structure for specific protocols rather than the addressing headers. It's not like the old days when you used them to analyze traffic and balance loads. The routers and switches have "solved" that problem.

[OT]
That time it does more then looking into addresses ... there was additional modules what analyzed problems with Layer 4+5, like Oracle client-server communication ... yeah, you can hardly use it for full strength now, but I keep 10 Mb hub for that (interesting if 100 Mb hub could be found?)
[/OT]

#26 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:51 PM

[OT]
That time it does more then looking into addresses ... there was additional modules what analyzed problems with Layer 4+5, like Oracle client-server communication ... yeah, you can hardly use it for full strength now, but I keep 10 Mb hub for that (interesting if 100 Mb hub could be found?)
[/OT]


Continuing the off topic conversation....

I have an old 8 port DLink 10/100 hub, and my boyfriend has a 3Com 24 port 10/100 hub in his office...but I doubt anyone makes them anymore.
Dish Network Customer from 1998-2001
DirecTV Customer since October, 2001
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

#27 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM

Back to the double router problem. . . Diana has given a detailed configuration and even she says it 'SHOULD' work. But there are additional problems lurking in the shadows.

The Double NAT (Network Address Translation) of 2 routers in series causes additional problems. Unless the router has a true DMZ - few home routers do - there are problems with remote access and port forwarding.

Basically that means security cameras, remote desktop, slingboxes, Nest thermostats, won't work remotely without some additional fiddling and still possibly not at all. uPNP won't be so automatic anymore.

The class C addressing of a home router allows for 254 ip addresses / devices. Unless you need more, there's really no reason for a second router.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#28 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:48 AM

The class C addressing of a home router allows for 254 ip addresses / devices. Unless you need more, there's really no reason for a second router.


To clarify... No need for a second router acting as DHCP server... Many people do use second routers, but as a switch or wireless access point...

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#29 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:20 AM

... The class C addressing of a home router allows for 254 ip addresses / devices. Unless you need more, there's really no reason for a second router.


Well there is a valid reason here as the TS explained he wants to use his new 802.11ac router, but the U-verse modem/router RG strangely has no bridging option to disable its integrated router.

So the router-behind-router with the 802.11ac one placed in the DMZ of the first (the U-verse RG) is the best alternative to the proper setup of a router behind a true bridge to the VDSL modem which the RG won't do.

#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

Well there is a valid reason here as the TS explained he wants to use his new 802.11ac router, but the U-verse modem/router RG strangely has no bridging option to disable its integrated router.

So the router-behind-router with the 802.11ac one placed in the DMZ of the first (the U-verse RG) is the best alternative to the proper setup of a router behind a true bridge to the VDSL modem which the RG won't do.

I'm not sure which modem/router the TS has, but mine looks to have an option for another router:
Capture.PNG
A.K.A VOS

#31 OFFLINE   Satchaser

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:58 AM

I'm not sure which modem/router the TS has, but mine looks to have an option for another router:
[ATTACH]31483[/ATTACH]


I have Motorola NVG510 which does not allow router to be disabled and does not enable UPNP. In order to use Security Cameras with a hosted Website etc. I set up the NVG 510 to assign a single IP and set up IP passthrough to pass NVG WAN IP to my Netgear router. Then disabled Wireless. The Netgear is setup to do DHCP on a different subnet than the LAN address of the NVG510 and to handle wireless clients including repeaters etc. Finally I set up port forwarding on the Netgear router for the Security Cameras. Reboot the NVG modem/router then the Netgear then repeaters, and finally cameras and other clients.

There is some pretty good information on ATT UVerse forums if you combine the efforts of several posters.

I presently have full access to the Internet from all clients and remote access to my security cameras worldwide.

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HR20-700 -->Sony 50"
HR44-200-->Hitachi 50" LCD, HDMI
H21-100-->Panasonic 32 inch LCD, HDMI
HR23-700-->Panasonic CRT

Whole Home -- Deca, wired CCK 


#32 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:19 AM

Yes, there are routers that can bridge or have a pass through setting / DMZ and the best workaround to use the better wireless is to disable DHCP and plug it in on the LAN side. It's not a router then, is it? But it works great as an additional access point.

The average home network user goes to BestBuy and probably buys the sale item and plugs it into whatever the ISP left them. He probably never visits the GUI and his email works.

I just don't want him to read these threads and not understand why something isn't working when he plugs his new gidget in 6 months from now.

The Directv installer and CSR certainly aren't prepared to troubleshoot.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#33 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:06 PM

The other reason to use two routers is to provide local security. For example, use the primary router for "public" wireless and the secondary router for a secured wireless (obviously on different frequencies) with a firewall between them. Of course, the easier option is VLANs, but precious few home routers have that capability either.

The more I use it, the more impressed I am with the ASUS RT-N66U. It has multiple VLAN support, true DMZ, VPN host support, supports FTP, telnet, SSH, DLNA, iTunes, DDNS, can do BitTorrent (and other) downloads to a router attached USB drive with no PC attached, and has the best throughput and wireless range of any router I have seen. It's not cheap (in the $175 range) but it is the best home router I have ever used.
Dish Network Customer from 1998-2001
DirecTV Customer since October, 2001
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK




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