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Directv vs DISH - Which HD is better


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102 replies to this topic

#81 ONLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:16 PM

Land Cruiser as it turns out. My dad had bought it used in '57 for about $200 as I remember and gave it to me in 1960 when I got my drivers license. It was the single most reliable car I had up until this 2009 Buick I own now. Always started, always ran and usually beat others with their Chevys and Fords when we drag raced on the back country roads.

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#82 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:52 PM

Is that now true on both the eastern and western arc's? IIRC EA was better because it used MPEG4 for all the SD channels were WA was on MPEG2 and was about on par with DIRECTV's SD channels.


SD might be better, but at least based on someone I know on EA, not convinced it would be worth it. He had to have two dishes for domestic channels, and at one point Dish moved our locals to a satellite that couldn't be seen by either dish. I'll take bad SD over that.

#83 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:17 AM

Do you see a frog and a bear in a brown Studebaker?

Nooo, but I see a frog and a bear in a rainbow colored Studebaker!

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#84 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

Am I an expert on display technology and calibration? Yes. You're welcome.

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Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#85 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:23 AM

Folks have said here that DirecTV has better HD than Dish.  I have Directv now thinking of switching to Dish.

 

I happen to have only 720p tvs. But they take 1080i inputs and the quality of Directv was a very noticeable improvement from TimeWarner Cable HD.

 

What is the technical reason DirecTV is better in HD than Dish?  I saw somewhere that Directv figured out how to deliver 1080p over SAT.  Perhaps Dish has not?

 

If the difference is Dish broadcasts HD in 1080i and Directv in 1080p, then I wouldn't notice the difference anyway on my 720p tvs.

 

I plan to skip 1080 tv sets and wait for 4K... but presumably 2+ years down the line when there is sufficient content.



#86 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:41 AM

dish transforming source material from 1920x1080i to 1440x1080i and keep 1280x720p

#87 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:52 AM

dish transforming source material from 1920x1080i to 1440x1080i and keep 1280x720p

Wouldn't 1440 x 1080i create a weird ratio ? Wouldn't it have to be 1440 x 810  or close ?


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#88 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:32 AM

Wouldn't 1440 x 1080i create a weird ratio ? Wouldn't it have to be 1440 x 810  or close ?

it's the same as SD 720x540
4:3
 
their IRD making reverse transformation and you will not see it if you don't know that or you are not a professional

it was typo [640 vs 540=1080/2]

Edited by P Smith, 11 June 2014 - 02:50 PM.


#89 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:41 AM

Thanks for the quick reply Mr Fix.

Does dish now broadcast all channels in MPEG4 to west coast where I am?

I see from other threads that Dish essentially compresses a lower res video stream to a lower bit rate resulting in lower pic quality. At least if they are using MPEG4 they are using a more efficient compression codec than MPEG2 given the same bit rate.

On my 720p tvs the lower resolution of Dish HD vs DirecTV shouldn't make much f any perceptible difference, but the lower bit rate might.

#90 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:53 AM

Folks have said here that DirecTV has better HD than Dish.  I have Directv now thinking of switching to Dish.

 

I happen to have only 720p tvs. But they take 1080i inputs and the quality of Directv was a very noticeable improvement from TimeWarner Cable HD.

 

What is the technical reason DirecTV is better in HD than Dish?  I saw somewhere that Directv figured out how to deliver 1080p over SAT.  Perhaps Dish has not?

 

If the difference is Dish broadcasts HD in 1080i and Directv in 1080p, then I wouldn't notice the difference anyway on my 720p tvs.

 

I plan to skip 1080 tv sets and wait for 4K... but presumably 2+ years down the line when there is sufficient content.

 

DirecTV does have 1080p, but doesn't really matter to any degree. It's only on certain PPV movies. No channel uses it, they are all either 720p or 1080i. Compression makes a  bigger difference, as does the codec used. Time Warner at least in my market still uses MPEG2. Bad quality and takes up a lot of drive space for HD.



#91 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:18 PM

it's the same as SD 720x640

4:3

 

their IRD making reverse transformation and you will not see it if you don't know that or you are not a professional

Isn't it supposed to be 720 x 540 ? for 4 to 3 ratio ?

 

What I have been reading is that they use the rectangle pixel method where a pixel is 1.33 wide vs 1 tall and the 1.33 simulates the same HD that we get with the 1920 x 1080i.

One of these days I will get the opportunity to see a setup with HD and compare the quality for myself. The 2 people I know with Dish both have / had SD service.

Oh well.


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HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#92 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:14 PM

Even if you knew someone with Dish HD it would be hard to compare. The variations between good and bad TVs is going to be lot bigger than the variation between Directv and Dish HD. To truly compare you'd need to do it side by side on the same TV, trying several channels to get a representative sample. Not very many people subscribe to both, except maybe during a small window of overlap when they're switching from one to the other.


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#93 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:56 PM

From prior posts it appears:

 

                                          DTV              Dish  

Typical HD Res:                1920x1080i    1440x1080i

 

Typical HD Codec... 

      ... (West/East):            MP-4/MP-4      ? / MP-4             MP-4 = MPEG-4

 

Typical HD Bitrate:            ?                     ?                        <10, and DTV is likely variable bit rate, but what is typical for each?

 

 

There was an article about this some time ago, but just shows bit rates for DTV and Dish are "less than 10".  I'm looking for more precision.

 

http://www.zdnet.com...-looks-like/962



#94 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:01 PM

HD West/East compressed by H.264 (MPEG-4 is "an envelope" and could carry H.263 and a few different audio comp algos)

bitrate of each channel (!) is very, have wide range - no such thing as "typical"; if you want get something palpable, get _average_ : write same movie, get it's time and file size, thus AVG will mean something

zdnet ? who is need stinking zdnet, if you are at Dbstalk ?! I did post the numbers for _same_ channel from both providers, measure on-time stream of same material ...

Edited by P Smith, 11 June 2014 - 03:03 PM.


#95 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:46 PM

You make a good point clarifying codec P Smith thanks.  Will be glad when .h265 is implemented although I'm sure it will be awhile.  I thought some of the .h264 SAT signals ended up in .m2ts containers but it doesn't matter what container for the purposes of this question anyway.

 

Average bit rate does matter, even if its just an average, and we should call it that rather than "typical"-- thats fair.  Bit rate may be unknowable given the variability between HD channels and programming, but it gives a sense of quality of the stream.  Its sounding to me like DirecTV HD signals are closer to 10 and Dish closer to 7s in megabit/s, but that is just speculation.  Was hoping someone had tighter/tested numbers.  Where are your posted bit rate numbers... do you have a link?

 

                                         DTV              Dish  

Typical HD Res:              1920x1080i    1440x1080i

 

Typical HD Codec... 

      ... (West/East):          .h264/.h264      .h264/.h264

 

Average HD Bitrate:            ?                     ?                        <10, and DTV is likely variable bit rate, but what is typical for each?


Edited by widmark, 11 June 2014 - 03:47 PM.


#96 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:25 PM

add to that, some HD channels coming in 720p

 

I did post snapshots of real bandwidth  here ... it was last years and it was same discussion's matter


Edited by P Smith, 12 June 2014 - 09:49 AM.


#97 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:32 PM

You make a good point clarifying codec P Smith thanks.  Will be glad when .h265 is implemented although I'm sure it will be awhile.

 

h.265 will only be used for 4K, since no receivers from Directv or Dish support it there is no way it can be used for lower resolutions.


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#98 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:01 PM

That stinks they just cant download the codec to the receiver.  There's such a thing as software defined radio, but no software defined codec?  Oh wait, that would be a PC.  I download codec packs to play video and that works.  Too bad the receivers cant.


Edited by cypherx, 12 June 2014 - 07:02 PM.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---
HR24-200
H24-200


#99 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:40 PM

now you know the difference between universal computer and specialized receiver ;)


Edited by P Smith, 12 June 2014 - 07:40 PM.


#100 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 08:33 PM

Not every PC has the horsepower to decode h.265, especially for 4K video. Current models do, but for some older ones it wouldn't be possible for it to decode h.265 in real time. You could install a h.265 codec, but if it can't keep up, it wouldn't be of much use.

 

PCs have a lot more computational power at their disposal than a set top box (and that's one reason they cost more to build) Thus set tops rely on hardware decoders to keep cost in check and avoid running too hot for fanless devices.

 

FWIW, while software defined radio has been around for a long time, it is just starting to be used in the satellite, television and cellular industries. That should tell you something about "cool technology" versus "cost effective technology" :)


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