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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Add a Modulator to Joey for whole house distribution.


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24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

Dish is installing a Hopper plus 2 Joeys and I plan to connect a modulator to 1 or more of the Joeys to send its channel to other Plain-old Coax TV's in the house.

This works with the Old DishTV receiver with built-in modulator, why not with Joey with a 3rd party modulator ? . . . I have a relative with the older DishTV receiver with the built in modulator for a second TV. The installer fed the modulated output from the receiver back to the 1 to 8 splitter in the basement on the same coax leading to the Dish Receiver. They can watch the 2nd channel from Dish from anywhere in the house.

Are there frequency overlap issues, needing a special modulator ? Are there bi-directional splitter issues . . The one big 1 to 8 splitter at my relatives house lets the modulated signal come in on port 3 and go out on the other 7 ports to all other TVs. (from the old Dish receiver). The incoming Dish signal and the modulated signal all seem to happily coexist on the same wires.

If it doen't work Im screwed because we have more than 3 must-have TV's.

Edited by swbca, 29 March 2013 - 03:40 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:44 PM

Are there frequency overlap issues, needing a special modulator ?

Basically yes ... combining the modulator feed on the cable to the Joey will most likely cause interference.

One thing you can try if you have wired ethernet is to run the Joey without the coax connection. Then use the coax for your RF.


(The Hopper coax needs to be separate from all TV RF as well.)

#3 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

I wouldn't say you're screwed - but you will need to pull more coax (in all likelyhood).

From what James is saying - you need to think in terms of 2 different networks - one being your traditional coax all TVs seeing the same thing (your modulator outputs) and one being the Hopper / Joey setup.

Anything that is attached to your Hopper has to be on a separate coax network - no sharing of this coax.

The older receivers (anything prior to Hopper /Joey) CAN share the OTA /modulated coax with the satellite LNB feed as long as you are using the correct diplexers.

What this means for you - Any room that you have a Joey in and you want to modulate that - you need two coax cables.

James did mention about trying to use ethernet for the Hopper / Joey communications - If you want to go this route - you need a decent switch (especially if you're sharing this switch with other IP devices such as PCs, Printers, etc.) A good , dedicated 10/100 M ethernet switch may work better than a router with builtin GB switch / Wireless / WAN routing (at least at the lower end of available routers).
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#4 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:59 PM

I could probably feed in Coax or Cat5 to interconnect the Dish equipment. The Coax wall boxes in the walls can all be reached from the attic or the basement.

I could add a dedicated cat 5 network seperated from the existing cat5 network that is hosting several computers and all the mobile wifi stuff then give the Dish ethernet network internet access through the DMZ port on our firewall to keep it separate from the data lan.

Is there any reason to use cat 5 vs coax to interconnect the dish equipment ?

Edited by swbca, 29 March 2013 - 07:08 PM.


#5 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

Is there any reason to use cat 5 vs coax to interconnect the dish equipment ?

Use whatever is easier. In my house I have some locations set up for TVs with coax and other locations are set up for Ethernet (wired before wi-fi was cheap and popular). I only have one location where I ran two coax cables ... so Ethernet is a nice option.

#6 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

Using the DMZ shouldn't be necessary, but putting all the Hopper / Joeys in their own switch isn't a bad idea if you're using ethernet. You will want the switch to be connected to your external network gateway.
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#7 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:48 AM

(Dish is coming in an hour !)
I think I have seen on this forum that Joey will output HDMI and RCA-Component at the same time. Its my intent to Modulate both Joeys that are also connected to HDMI tv's

Our main TV would not have a Modulator
Wife can pick her channel for her rooms
I can pick my channel for my rooms

WHAT TYPE OF REMOTE CONTROL HELPER ???

I don't expect the UHF remotes will work from some of the remote TV's. What type of remote control helper is best. Dedicated wiring for IR is not an option. I want something solid at opposite ends of the house and on different floor.

Is their a helper that can share the COAX or run on the Power-Line or WiFi network My existing WiFi is pretty solid throughout the house. Our WiFi access point is in the center of the house so it would cut the RF range requirement by 1/2 compared to a dedicated RF extender.

The Radio Frequecy extenders I tried a few years ago did not have good range in a house. As I remember they are no better than the Dish UHF remotes.

Edited by swbca, 30 March 2013 - 07:06 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:58 AM

Someday we will have a nice under $100 modulator that takes 720P or 1080i on component video jacks and outputs a nice clear ATSC or QAM signal on any channel. Don't even need adjacent channel capability if the same home system had 2 or 3 of them.

I could probably install 50 if I could get 'em.

:D

#9 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

Someday we will have a nice under $100 modulator that takes 720P or 1080i on component video jacks and outputs a nice clear ATSC or QAM signal on any channel. Don't even need adjacent channel capability if the same home system had 2 or 3 of them.

I could probably install 50 if I could get 'em.

:D


I wouldn't count on that. Hollywood and other content producers are putting as much pressure as possible on the electronics industry to eliminate all analog input / output so as to make modulators impossible.
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#10 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

The RCA outputs on a Joey are SD composite video, not potentially HD component video. A standard modulator will work on a Joey but HDMI is the only HD output. (Hoppers have component output.)

The Hopper and Joey remotes are RF ... extenders do not work. The Joey has an antenna inside to talk to its remote ... the Hopper has an external antenna on the back of the receiver. You will have to rely on the range of the Joey remote to reach the Joey location from the extra rooms.

#11 OFFLINE   andrewddunn

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:58 PM

i assume the old uhf remotes from the 622/722 won t work on the hopper or joey. is there anyplace to get a remote to operate a tv modulated off of a joey other than dish ?

#12 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

The right remote will do the best job.

If I recall correctly, the Joey can receive IR remote commands ... I have disabled IR reception on my Hoppers and Joeys. But you may be able to leave IR enabled and use an IR remote in the room with the Joey. You may also be able to extend that IR ... but after a while you're making your system much more complicated than it needs to be and you end up with a limited remote that sort of works instead of the remote that is designed to work best.

#13 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:33 PM

Thanks all for your help.

My Dish went in today and ended up with new coax (not cat5) for hoppers/Joey connections leaving the original whole house TV distribution intack and separate from the hoppers.

I immediately added an old Radio Shack modulator to one of the hoppers plus a splitter/style amplifier and I got clean video and sound on all the other plain-old-tvs. The only little issue . . . the installer explained he set the Joeys for a specific wide-screen aspect-ratio to match our Hi-Def TV's, so no matter what type of programming, the modulated output is "wide screen" on the 3x4 TV's. No big deal.

RE the Remotes. The installer also said the Joeys support IR. But he thought the remotes in IR mode would also use hardware ID pairing like in UHF mode. He didn't think a second remote could be paired to a Joey, whether its UHF or IR.

He said maybe there is a work-around but he did not know.

So the question is . . . is is possible to "pair" more than 1 remote to a Joey ?

(In 9 years he has never had someone ask to have the Joeys (or earlier hardware) installed in the basement immediately below the HDMI TVs. The only thing that shows on our TV sitting on a kitchen island is the HDMI cable. Joey and modulator are in the floor joists below in an unfinished basement.

This is my second DishTV installation and in both cases the installers were A++. My only criticism . . . the low voltage wiring in this house was originally done by a custom AV type of company in 1993 so all th audio/video/security wiring was carefully fastened to the framing at right angles and generally very neat. In most places Dish took the shortest path and almost nothing was fastened.

Edited by swbca, 31 March 2013 - 06:01 AM.


#14 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:22 PM

IR remotes are not paired. If enabled the Hopper or Joey listens for remote commands on a remote set to "1" in DISH's IR tables (which can be interesting if you have multiple Hoppers or Joeys in the same room or withing IR visibility of a user using an IR remote).

RF remotes must be paired and multiple remotes can be paired to each Hopper/Joey. Only one Hopper or Joey can be paired to each remote.

#15 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

RF remotes must be paired and multiple remotes can be paired to each Hopper/Joey.


So if I can position the Joeys to be within range of the extra TV's using the modulators, I could use a DISH UHF remote at each TV. I'll have to switch to 30' HDMI cables to move the Joey's to a better place to make this work. The UHF remote doesn't quite work now at 60 feet because of a masonry fireplace in the line of sight..

Do Channel Plus Modulators have better picture quality than the cheap modulators like my old Radio Shack which is still sold. I just ordered a Channel Plus Dual Modulator to get more than channels 3 and 4 as modulation channel choices since we will have 3 Dish signals modulated.

Edited by swbca, 31 March 2013 - 01:08 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

Joey and modulator are in the floor joists below in an unfinished basement.


Iiiii don't like that idea. Joeys run hot. Really hot.

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#17 OFFLINE   charlesrshell

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:57 PM

So if I can position the Joeys to be within range of the extra TV's using the modulators, I could use a DISH UHF remote at each TV. I'll have to switch to 30' HDMI cables to move the Joey's to a better place to make this work. The UHF remote doesn't quite work now at 60 feet because of a masonry fireplace in the line of sight..

Do Channel Plus Modulators have better picture quality than the cheap modulators like my old Radio Shack which is still sold. I just ordered a Channel Plus Dual Modulator to get more than channels 3 and 4 as modulation channel choices since we will have 3 Dish signals modulated.


I installed three of these RF Modulators on three Hoppers with Sling and they work good.
http://www.hollandel...media-Modulator

Dish 1000+ / Dish 500 / SIRIUS Radio / OTA Terrestrial Digital DB4 / 26 dB Pre-Amp / SlingBox 500
119 / 110 / 61.5 / 118.7 / 129 / DPP44x2 / Duo Nodex2  /  Hopper w/Slingx4 / Joeyx1 / 500G WD My DVR Expander EHDx2

AEP HD / Xtsy / Multi-Sport / Blockbuster@Home / International Basic / Italian Raitalia / Heartland / Outdoor Sports
50" Samsung HD LED / 50" Panasonic HD Plasma / 50" Vizio HD LED / 40" Samsung HD LED / 32" Vizio HD LCD


#18 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:24 AM

Iiiii don't like that idea. Joeys run hot. Really hot.


Good point . . . I wonder if they will run for years at such high temperatures. I fastened the 2 Joeys, amp, modulator, power strip and all the power adaptors to a board. My final installation is like a wall mounted shelf about 2 feet below the floor framing. I was thinking mounting a single 80mm computer case fan above the 2 Joey's to keep them a little cooler.

#19 OFFLINE   swbca

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:47 AM

I installed three of these RF Modulators on three Hoppers with Sling and they work good.
http://www.hollandel...media-Modulator



A picture I looked at showed a single mini-jack for audio input. Is yours like that or does it have RCA for audio?

#20 OFFLINE   charlesrshell

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:00 AM

A picture I looked at showed a single mini-jack for audio input. Is yours like that or does it have RCA for audio?


RCA for audio and video in ports (red, white, yellow), coax out.

Dish 1000+ / Dish 500 / SIRIUS Radio / OTA Terrestrial Digital DB4 / 26 dB Pre-Amp / SlingBox 500
119 / 110 / 61.5 / 118.7 / 129 / DPP44x2 / Duo Nodex2  /  Hopper w/Slingx4 / Joeyx1 / 500G WD My DVR Expander EHDx2

AEP HD / Xtsy / Multi-Sport / Blockbuster@Home / International Basic / Italian Raitalia / Heartland / Outdoor Sports
50" Samsung HD LED / 50" Panasonic HD Plasma / 50" Vizio HD LED / 40" Samsung HD LED / 32" Vizio HD LCD





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