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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Genie client C31 running hot @150°F


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72 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   betterdan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:38 AM

Nope, temps have been up to 158F before and nothing like that has happened.

That's what I am saying, has anyone actually had a problem because of the temps or is it all just speculation so far?


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#52 OFFLINE   lacibaci

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:08 AM

Nope, temps have been up to 158F before and nothing like that has happened.

That's what I am saying, has anyone actually had a problem because of the temps or is it all just speculation so far?

 

Heat related issues are very difficult to track. You may get random freezes, reboots or other symptoms that may not be obvious. Running at 150°F 24/7 cannot be good for any electronics.



#53 OFFLINE   betterdan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:01 AM

So once again, were you having problems related to the temps?

The temps do seem high but so far the clients seem to be ok at those temps. I am just curious if anyone actually is having problems because of the heat or not.


Edited by betterdan, 25 April 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#54 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:52 AM

So once again, were you having problems related to the temps?

The temps do seem high but so far the clients seem to be ok at those temps. I am just curious if anyone actually is having problems because of the heat or not.

If you are not an engineer, you better turn on common sense - how long you'll drive your car if coolant temp is high ? Is there any problem ? How long you could live that way without enconteting an issue ? etc ... I gave you max Operation Tem for chips like the used in Cxx, what else you need to predict trouble ?


Edited by P Smith, 25 April 2013 - 08:53 AM.


#55 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:33 AM



you'll if the temp will go up to 150 F


But what temperature exactly is that? Independent temp. sensor inside the cabinet or from one built into the main chip? Without the specs., we are all just guessing, but my point is that most modern day CPUs and FPGAs and combinations thereof are rated to temps. at 85C and above. For the Intel i7, the max. temp is Tcase of 100 C. Other parts of the chip are much hotter, and other parts are much cooler.

The entire top of the C31 (with the cover off) is one gigantic ugly heatsink for that main chip. Seems like D* went out of their way to avoid putting a fan in.

Edited by bobcamp1, 25 April 2013 - 09:34 AM.


#56 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

each chip has own complicity, you must not apply blindly op temp from i7 to the BCM; it's incorrect guess

adding to that, yes you see temp sensor reading not the Broadcom chip itself, so counting that I would say the main chip is hotter :(



#57 OFFLINE   betterdan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:51 AM

If you are not an engineer, you better turn on common sense - how long you'll drive your car if coolant temp is high ? Is there any problem ? How long you could live that way without enconteting an issue ? etc ... I gave you max Operation Tem for chips like the used in Cxx, what else you need to predict trouble ?

My car and these C31-700 boxes, that Directv owns, are two different things. I will be proactive and try to keep the car operating properly since I own it and also it has a gauge telling you when it is too hot. No one, including you, knows what the max operating temp of one of these boxes is before it is too high and will start causing problems. If you find out what that max temp is please post it as it would be interesting to know, although I still probably wouldn't put a fan or anything on it since it isn't my property anyways. 

The boxes are out in the open getting air flow and they still run around 140-158F (in my house) so maybe Directv designed them this way, I do not know nor do you since there is no information about the operating temps except ambient temps and neither you nor I, created these devices.

 

Like I said before if it dies, it dies. Directv will replace them for free so no skin off my back. If my car dies because of the heat I am screwed.

 

Hope you can see the differences in a car and a Directv C31-700, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to do that. ;)


Edited by betterdan, 25 April 2013 - 11:53 AM.

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#58 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

yeah, yeah ... would you tell me exactly what BCM chip inside of the client ? I did ask other ppl who did a picture for First Look, but got deaf ears/blind look :(



#59 OFFLINE   betterdan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

No, I am not opening them up since they aren't mine. They are the property of Directv.



#60 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

chicken :D



#61 OFFLINE   betterdan

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:30 PM

Why would I open them up? They are running fine. That's the thing, you say they shouldn't be running fine yet mine and others with temps similar do have boxes that are running ok.

If you really want to know what is inside then call up Directv and tell them you want one. That way at least you'll actually have one in possession to give out some meaningful info instead of just guesses.

 

Just saying.



#62 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:34 PM

each chip has own complicity, you must not apply blindly op temp from i7 to the BCM; it's incorrect guess

adding to that, yes you see temp sensor reading not the Broadcom chip itself, so counting that I would say the main chip is hotter :(

I'm not blindly applying the i7 temp. spec to the BCM -- I used that as an example to show that even consumer level equipment now has upper temperatures that can exceed 70 C.  In other words, it's just as incorrect to assume 70C is the upper limit.

 

The part is Broadcom BCM7340, as mentioned earlier in the thread.  But I couldn't find the technical datasheet for it.


Edited by bobcamp1, 25 April 2013 - 01:46 PM.


#63 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:00 PM

I'm not blindly applying the i7 temp. spec to the BCM -- I used that as an example to show that even consumer level equipment now has upper temperatures that can exceed 70 C.  In other words, it's just as incorrect to assume 70C is the upper limit.

 

The part is Broadcom BCM7340, as mentioned earlier in the thread.  But I couldn't find the technical datasheet for it.

he mentioned two different chips in his post .... which one is  in C31 (and in C41) ?

 

also, again, BCM chips are different class, they are not CPU like Intel's, they are like ST Micro chips as posted before


Edited by P Smith, 25 April 2013 - 03:02 PM.


#64 OFFLINE   lacibaci

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

The chip is BCM7408. Here is a higher resolution photo:

https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink

 

I could not find any (temp) specs.  Also, I could not see where the temperature sensor is. Maybe someone can recognize the part from above photo.

 

Lac


Edited by lacibaci, 27 April 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#65 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:20 PM

can't get anything clicking on your URL :(

 

have you seen on the PCB small chip with 8 pins and labeled "LM75"  ?

 

 

 

Edit: got it (on different PC) - thank you. Resolution is not that good to read the BCM model, but I trust you :).

 

Can't tell about other ICs if some of those is temp sensor. Need better picture or short BOM ;).

By reading labels on the board, I would say Pace hired other company ENTONE to make the C31 client.


Edited by P Smith, 28 April 2013 - 12:25 AM.


#66 OFFLINE   TXD16

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

Problem solved. Got a small USB powered fan for ~$2, plugged it into C31 (the USB is powered even when C31 is off) and put C31 on top. The temp is now under 100°F.

fan.jpg

 

See? I told you it was the fan. ;)


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#67 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:59 PM

I'm not blindly applying the i7 temp. spec to the BCM -- I used that as an example to show that even consumer level equipment now has upper temperatures that can exceed 70 C.  In other words, it's just as incorrect to assume 70C is the upper limit.

 

The part is Broadcom BCM7340, as mentioned earlier in the thread.  But I couldn't find the technical datasheet for it.

Isn't right time to eat a crow ? :D It's BCM7408 !

 

As to operating temp vs reliability I would recommend you read the short article: http://www.pcpower.c...nology/optemps/



#68 OFFLINE   betterdan

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 08:41 PM

Just an update...

It's been over a year now with our C31 Clients running at the same temps I posted in this thread and they are still running fine.



#69 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 06:39 AM

Just an update...

It's been over a year now with our C31 Clients running at the same temps I posted in this thread and they are still running fine.

I'm glad you posted this, because I just started using a C31-700 and its Temp was up to 159.  But still no working issues.

Directv Tech supports claims they can Run at 170F before the warning on the screen start.

The box its self isn't even hot to the touch.

 

I don't understand though, with no power supply inside , why is it so damn hot??


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#70 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 09:10 AM

http://blog.solidsig...Mini-Client-get

 

[...] the temperature sensor is placed near one of the larger chips. It's normal for this chip to run hot [...] We've seen temperature readings as high as 155 and it hasn't been a problem. 

/steve

#71 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 10:19 AM

if you are not reading by URLs, here is a quote for you:

The life of an electronic device is directly related to its operating temperature. Each 10°C (18°F) temperature rise reduces component life by 50%*. Conversely, each 10°C (18°F) temperature reduction increases component life by 100%.


Edited by P Smith, 25 May 2014 - 10:19 AM.


#72 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 10:37 AM

if you are not reading by URLs, here is a quote for you:

 

For that quote to be meaningful to this discussion, it would help to know what the expected component life is to begin with. 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years? I remember using a Sharp 19" CRT for hours a day for over 20 years without a failure. I'll bet it got pretty hot inside.

 

At any rate, as someone mentioned earlier, if the customer has the protection plan, what does it matter? :shrug:


/steve

#73 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 11:57 AM

As already stated, the clients will warn you when temp is excessive. You will get a message on the screen.

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