Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

No ground required.


  • Please log in to reply
94 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   studechip

studechip

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 1,019 posts
Joined: Apr 16, 2012

Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:38 PM

Then why are the plugs on all the HRs two pronged? Do you have a seperate ground for your refrigerator? I don't like grounding discussions. Too many people have too many opinions.

Rich


We are talking about grounding the dish, not the receiver/dvr. Two different things completely.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,618 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:44 PM

We aren't talking about fridges here.
Like others said it is a requirement and is necessary:


It's not a requirement in my township and I kinda doubt it's in the NEC. I've been arguing with D* for years about this and they don't seem to be worried about it.

You completely missed my point about the two pronged plugs. Why?

Rich

#23 OFFLINE   trh

trh

    This Space for Sale

  • Registered
  • 3,315 posts
  • LocationNE FL
Joined: Nov 02, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:48 PM

NEC article 810.

810.1 Scope
This article covers antenna systems for radio and television receiving equipment, amateur radio transmitting and receiving equipment, and certain features of transmitter safety. This article covers antennas such as multi-element, vertical rod, and dish, and also covers the wiring and cabling that connects them to equipment. This article does not cover equipment and antennas used for coupling carrier current to power line conductors. Article 810 covers wiring requirements for television and radio receiving equipment, specifically including digital satellite receiving equipment for television signals, and wiring for amateur radio equipment.



#24 OFFLINE   ranik

ranik

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 3 posts
Joined: Apr 13, 2013

Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:59 PM

HR's are 2 prong because they ground through the coax cable and not the home ground, All dishes are supposed to be grounded to ground the entire system not just the dish.

#25 OFFLINE   Diana C

Diana C

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,826 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:50 PM

HR's are 2 prong because they ground through the coax cable and not the home ground, All dishes are supposed to be grounded to ground the entire system not just the dish.


Actually, you've only covered half the reason. Since satellite receivers are all connected to the dish via the coax ground, they have no choice but to share a ground. If they had 3 prong plugs, you could create a ground loop between two receivers. This would cause current to flow from one receiver to the other (direction depending upon which was at the lower ground potential). This is not good for the input section of the receiver. Therefore, the individual receivers are allowed to float and everything is supposed to be grounded at the coax cable premises entry point. If the dish is not grounded, then your entire satellite reception system is ungrounded. This means that if you happen to touch a metal part of the satellite system and a grounded item (say a pipe, a lamp or anything with a 3 prong plug) then YOU become the grounding point for your antenna system.

Dish Network Customer from 9/1998-11/2001
DirecTV Customer 10/2001 - 7/2014

FiOS TV/TiVo Customer since 6/2014
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
DirecTV: HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / C41-500 / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

FiOS: 2 Tivo Roamio Pros (6 TB total) / 5 Tivo Minis attached via MOCA


#26 OFFLINE   Diana C

Diana C

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,826 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

We are talking about grounding the dish, not the receiver/dvr. Two different things completely.


Actually it is all the same thing.

Dish Network Customer from 9/1998-11/2001
DirecTV Customer 10/2001 - 7/2014

FiOS TV/TiVo Customer since 6/2014
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
DirecTV: HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / C41-500 / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

FiOS: 2 Tivo Roamio Pros (6 TB total) / 5 Tivo Minis attached via MOCA


#27 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,048 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

Posted DIRECTV's official position on grounding at the time with the reasons and illustrations from their training documents about two years ago here for those interested;

http://www.dbstalk.c...431#post2804431

#28 OFFLINE   west99999

west99999

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 907 posts
Joined: May 11, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

Short of needing an ohmeter, visually follow the cable(s) coming from the dish. They (or "it" id only one) should connect first in line to a ground block like so;

Posted Image

Or maybe;

Posted Image

Which has a (usually) green colored wire connected from it to any convenient screw on your electrical service panel casing.


Just for informational purposes, the DirecTV system can also be grounded through any UL listed SWM splitter/ SWM switch, and also legacy multi-switch's that are UL listed for grounding purposes.

#29 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,048 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

Just for informational purposes, the DirecTV system can also be grounded through any UL listed SWM splitter/ SWM switch, and also legacy multi-switch's that are UL listed for grounding purposes.


That will still pass a QC today?

When I was given a SWiM upgrade for WH service over two years ago the installers did not use an intermediate 4 barrel ground block for the lines feeding the SWiM-16 as I expected them to, but ran the cables straight to the -16 and merely connected a green ground wire from the -16 grounding screw to the nearby cold water feed line to the hot water heater and said that would be sufficient.

However other installers here have since posted that was not permitted any longer.

#30 OFFLINE   dondude32

dondude32

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 216 posts
Joined: Apr 03, 2003

Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

I checked the swim and no ground connected to grounding terminal. Also noticed one output is open with no cap. Should it have a terminal cap?

Attached Thumbnails

  • 100_3528.JPG


#31 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

AntAltMike

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,768 posts
  • LocationCollege Park MD (just outside Wash, DC)
Joined: Nov 20, 2004

Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

just as an aside, back in the bad old days when anyone could install, I've lost count of how many systems I've seen grounded to propane tanks


Many years ago, the NEC permitted antenna system grounding to the gas line.

#32 ONLINE   longrider

longrider

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,116 posts
  • LocationElizabeth, CO
Joined: Apr 21, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

The lack of a ground there is no big deal as long as it is grounded at the dish. The open output should have a terminator on it.
My Setup

#33 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,618 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:24 PM

That will still pass a QC today?

When I was given a SWiM upgrade for WH service over two years ago the installers did not use an intermediate 4 barrel ground block for the lines feeding the SWiM-16 as I expected them to, but ran the cables straight to the -16 and merely connected a green ground wire from the -16 grounding screw to the nearby cold water feed line to the hot water heater and said that would be sufficient.

However other installers here have since posted that was not permitted any longer.


Been against the NEC rules for years, I think. Too much plastic pipe in houses now.

Rich

#34 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,618 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:27 PM

I checked the swim and no ground connected to grounding terminal. Also noticed one output is open with no cap. Should it have a terminal cap?


Yes. You need a termination cap, looks like a regular cap but has a 75 ohm resister in it. I think Radio Shack has them.

Rich

#35 OFFLINE   dondude32

dondude32

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 216 posts
Joined: Apr 03, 2003

Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:40 PM

No ground on system at all. I'll call back and try again. Have 3 kids, all have directv receivers in their rooms. I wish they had cleaned up old wires when they upgraded the dish.

#36 OFFLINE   west99999

west99999

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 907 posts
Joined: May 11, 2007

Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:55 AM


That will still pass a QC today?

When I was given a SWiM upgrade for WH service over two years ago the installers did not use an intermediate 4 barrel ground block for the lines feeding the SWiM-16 as I expected them to, but ran the cables straight to the -16 and merely connected a green ground wire from the -16 grounding screw to the nearby cold water feed line to the hot water heater and said that would be sufficient.

However other installers here have since posted that was not permitted any longer.

Absolutely it will pass a QC. Only time a ground block would be required first is if local electric code requires it and I don't know of any that do.



#37 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,618 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:31 AM

Absolutely it will pass a QC. Only time a ground block would be required first is if local electric code requires it and I don't know of any that do.

Exactly what I have been told by our town's electrical inspector.  He actually told me a ground wasn't necessary.

 

Rich



#38 OFFLINE   west99999

west99999

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 907 posts
Joined: May 11, 2007

Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:31 AM

Exactly what I have been told by our town's electrical inspector.  He actually told me a ground wasn't necessary.

 

Rich

Per DirecTV the NEC is required at a minimum but local codes can be more stringent. All local municipalities are required to follow the NEC as well so your inspector is wrong.  They can add stuff to the NEC but cannot take away.



#39 OFFLINE   slice1900

slice1900

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 2,407 posts
  • LocationIowa
Joined: Feb 14, 2013

Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

Absolutely it will pass a QC. Only time a ground block would be required first is if local electric code requires it and I don't know of any that do.

 

I've been led to understand that the dish itself should be grounded in addition to grounding the coax. Grounding a SWM-16 would take care of grounding the coax, but it wouldn't ground the dish. I'm not sure what difference that makes, unless there are overhead power lines that could possibly fall onto the dish during a storm or due to an uprooted tree pulling power lines onto the dish from the street or alley. Is there any other reason why one should ground a dish or an antenna mast in addition to the coax connected to it?

 

I would suggest that unless HoTat2 knows for certain his cold water pipe is copper all the way through (and not PEX in places as is common in newer homes) he might want to find something else to ground it to. Would running a ground wire to the center screw on a properly installed outlet be acceptable? It would be grounded exactly as if the SWM-16 was grounded via a three prong plug. I know some people do this for grounding audio accessories that use a two prong wall wart.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL 3xSWM16, 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#40 OFFLINE   n3ntj

n3ntj

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,704 posts
Joined: Dec 18, 2006

Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:20 PM

Just moved recently and had service installed at new home. Installer didn't ground dish? Called Directv (have the service plan wanted me to upgrade to premium service plan) and they said sometimes ground is not always necessary. Live in Southwest Florida guess they are ok with system getting zapped.:nono2:

NEC requires grounding of satellite TV installs (ref. NEC part 820).  If not done by the installer, the installation violates the code and needs to be corrected ASAP.  Call D* back and demand the system is properly installed to meet your local codes.


HD Snob - "Friends Don't Let Friends Watch Cable".
Electrical/RF Engineer & Inspector
DirecTV Equipment: HR24-200, HR24-100, 5LNB Slimline, AM21, SWiM 8 installed (MRV)
HR-2x Configuration: Native OFF. Units OFF when not in use.
TVs: 2 Panasonic Plasma TV's each using HDMI (one 1080p/one 720p)
DirecTV customer since 1998. Plus HD DVR package w/ NHL Center Ice & MLB Extra Innings.
OTA Antenna: Homebrew UHF & VHF antennas w/ 30dB amplifier fed w/ RG-6 Quad-shield coax.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...