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21-24 Mbps not enough bandwidth to stream On Demand!?!


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#61 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:46 AM

Re: My post above "Shameless" downloaded this morning at 10:10

41% at 30minutes, so it's a little less than 1:1. A little better than last week. Router reports 4.5-5 Mbps

82% at 60 minutes. Pretty linear.

100% at 75 minutes.

Everyone needs to remember that the speedtests typically default to a nearby server (particularly speedtest.net). While you can change that location, I doubt the destination server is serving up video streams to hundreds of users.

You bring up a good point.

 

I read your post and checked Shameless and had 1:1.

 

Here are a few Speedtest results:

 

2662471181.png

2662474921.png

2662479383.png

 

Not every server/location will give the same results.


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#62 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:49 AM

But I will add, if it was a server load issue, it is something that Directv needs to correct in the future.  Why would I bother with Directv's PPV if I cannot count on it always working, especially when the alternatives ie Vudu, Amazon, Apple are usually $1 cheaper and, in my experience, never have issues?

What are the bit-rates of those alternatives?

"Most" streaming services scale the bit-rates [down] for streaming, which DirecTV doesn't.


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#63 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:45 PM

Does anyone know what Directv's streaming architecture is like? Is everything streamed from their LA office or do they have a distributed system using Akamai or similar? If no one knows for sure, we could find out via people who live in various places around the country streaming something from them and checking the NAT table on their router to see where the endpoint of the connection is.

 

If everything goes through LA, then people on the east coast are always going to have more problems than people who live closer to LA - unless they have a mirror datacenter out east, in which case the people who live in the central US are most likely to have problems. The further you are from the server you're streaming from, the more chance there is of a problem along the path. Latency doesn't matter for streaming, but larger latency does magnify the effect of any dropped packets.

 

If everyone is having problems all at the same time no matter where they are located, for instance if a bunch of people all report problems streaming from Directv at 11 PM EDT this Friday, then we can conclude it is a problem on Directv's end, which they can fix by adding more servers and/or more bandwidth to the outside.

 

When you read about Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft continually building big datacenters in various places around the country and around the world, a lot of it is for this reason - get their content closer to the customer. Directv can't afford to do something like that, so they'd likely use a content delivery network like Akamai or Level3.


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#64 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:47 PM

Either the planets are aligned better or something got fixed. Just started another download and with the progress bar at :03 the load is already at the first tick ~15.


Edit: Finished 1 hour download at 0:20.

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#65 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

Does anyone know what Directv's streaming architecture is like? Is everything streamed from their LA office or do they have a distributed system using Akamai or similar? If no one knows for sure, we could find out via people who live in various places around the country streaming something from them and checking the NAT table on their router to see where the endpoint of the connection is.

 

 

I'm not 100% sure about VoD, but on the iPad app using fiddler2 as a proxy to try to see how streaming works (like why does it only work wihtin the home)... the IP's it connects to belong to Limelight Networks.  It's been awhile since I analyzed it so maybe if I get time I'll try again.  Will have to see if I can put a proxy server in the HR24's advanced network setup.

 

It would make more sense for DirecTV to lease a CDN and use the distributed archetecture and expertise of a media streaming content delivery provider.  Hosting everything in one or two data centers isn't just bad for speed, but redundancy as well.

 

It's about 1:1 download here too.  That would likely be the MINIMUM requirement for VOD, but if you want any forward trick play, 2:1 would be a better start.


Edited by cypherx, 22 April 2013 - 12:57 PM.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

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#66 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:56 PM

Every time I try to watch an On Demand HD movie I get a message saying my download speed isn't fast enough to stream and do I want to just download the movie for later viewing. How much bandwidth do you need to stream? I can download a movie by bit torrent in less time than it takes to download an On Demand movie. How many people even have 21 Mbps? If that ain't enough, then very few people can watch streaming On Demand.

 

Your thoughts, please.

 

After your post, I plugged a HR34 into a 10Mbps cable modem backup isp connection (that does NOT exceed 10Mbps) and watched a Showtime HD OnDemand program (channel 1545) with no issues whatsoever. As thus, to answer your original question, 21-24 Mbps is plenty of bandwidth for OnDemand viewing.

 

Obviously, if you or a family member is running a bunch of torrents (or perhaps your neighborhood is bandwidth starved), those could be killing your speed. But regardless, that is not a problem on D*'s end.



#67 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:03 PM

 

Like most, I thought it was a DirecTV problem. I checked out the bit-rate of the program and found it to be 14-16 Mb/s

 

 

 

How does one check this without direct access to the recorded program on the hard drive moved over to a computer?



#68 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:05 PM

How does one check this without direct access to the recorded program on the hard drive moved over to a computer?

 

Setup a proxy or actually a lot of routers (or even ones loaded with dd-wrt or tomato) can graph in realtime bandwidth usage.


- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#69 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:17 PM

How does one check this without direct access to the recorded program on the hard drive moved over to a computer?

 

 

Setup a proxy or actually a lot of routers (or even ones loaded with dd-wrt or tomato) can graph in realtime bandwidth usage.

 

This was how I did it. Monitoring port activity while either downloading and/or streaming a recording with DirecTV2PC can give a good idea of the bit-rates. 


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#70 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:23 PM

Does anyone know what Directv's streaming architecture is like? Is everything streamed from their LA office or do they have a distributed system using Akamai or similar? If no one knows for sure, we could find out via people who live in various places around the country streaming something from them and checking the NAT table on their router to see where the endpoint of the connection is.

 

As of last summer at least, everything was stored by DirecTV themselves.



#71 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:54 PM

This was how I did it. Monitoring port activity while either downloading and/or streaming a recording with DirecTV2PC can give a good idea of the bit-rates. 

 

I know for a fact the bitrate for the majority of VOD providers is lower than what one sees on their linear distribution channels. So, for example, if Starz had a max of 14.0 Mbps on their linear distribution, the VOD has a bitrate lower than 14.0Mbps.  As thus, the 14Mbps-16Mbps bitrate in the original post is somewhat of a head scratcher, which is why I asked how you were measuring it. Clearly there is some overhead being created if you are seeing 14Mbps-16Mbps on a router - as opposed to the pure stream.



#72 OFFLINE   machavez00

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:40 PM

This is what I get from both BBR and Speed test.  I got the "play now" error message one time.

 

2663077356.png

 

 

32850.png


Edited by machavez00, 22 April 2013 - 03:40 PM.


#73 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

I know for a fact the bitrate for the majority of VOD providers is lower than what one sees on their linear distribution channels. So, for example, if Starz had a max of 14.0 Mbps on their linear distribution, the VOD has a bitrate lower than 14.0Mbps.  As thus, the 14Mbps-16Mbps bitrate in the original post is somewhat of a head scratcher, which is why I asked how you were measuring it. Clearly there is some overhead being created if you are seeing 14Mbps-16Mbps on a router - as opposed to the pure stream.

This was a concert off of the audience channel.

As I said, it downloaded at about 7 Mb/s, which took twice as long as the recording time. Streaming it to my PC showed both ports [from the DVR and to the PC] were very close and in the 14+ Mb/s range, with samples being about a min between updates, which tends to give a better result for MPEG-4 and the bit-rates vary so much.

I've checked some Starz programs as I'd stacked several to record and their times were faster than 1:1 for HD. These showed bit-rates in the 5 Mb/s range.  


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#74 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:06 PM

What are the bit-rates of those alternatives?

"Most" streaming services scale the bit-rates [down] for streaming, which DirecTV doesn't.

 

Don't know the bit rates and don't really care.  The picture looks good and streams instantly, that is my primary concern.


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#75 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:38 PM

I watched curb your enthusiasm via HBOGo on Xbox 360. I didn't realize HBOGo now carries 5.1 surround sound now. When it first came out it didn't. Anyway, I think the Xbox started the playback faster then the HR24. Though the picture was pretty good, it was a little softer on Xbox compared to the HR24. Trick play is much easier to accomplish on the Xbox. So is finding content and the smooth, rich fluid graphics on the Xbox.

I can tell the Xbox is adaptive streaming. A few instances the picture softened up as if there was bandwidth degradation. However it never skipped or stopped playing at all. It's all a trade off.
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- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

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#76 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:43 PM

Actually my VOD isn't working now. It says there was a problem connecting to the Internet: fix now, continue later. Continue later just takes you back to live TV. Fix now takes you to the system test screen. In the playlist it just says pending download. After sometime it said "there was a problem connecting to DirecTV. Retry in progress (85) (ok).

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#77 OFFLINE   akw4572

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:44 PM

Since coming back to DTV, and being hard wired to my internet, the OD is the one thing I'm a bit disappointed in.  I've got 20 mb speed, and have to plan ahead if I want to watch any OD programming.


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#78 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:24 AM

Actually my VOD isn't working now. It says there was a problem connecting to the Internet: fix now, continue later. Continue later just takes you back to live TV. Fix now takes you to the system test screen. In the playlist it just says pending download. After sometime it said "there was a problem connecting to DirecTV. Retry in progress (85) (ok).

 

 Update It fixed itself late last night. 

 

Needless to say there are strange anomolies from time to time.  Generally it works though.


  • mckeemike505 likes this

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

My DirecTV SD WISHLIST: MTV Hits, MTV Jams, Music Choice, Youtoo TV

 

---

HR44-500
HR24-200

 


#79 OFFLINE   grecorj

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:37 AM

Don't know the bit rates and don't really care.  The picture looks good and streams instantly, that is my primary concern.

 

Have to agree with this.  Stuff on Vudu looks very very good to my eye and streaming works w/o buffering. 

 

There seems to be some intelligent discussion about various bitrates of the streaming services here http://www.avsforum....eaming-bitrates


Edited by grecorj, 23 April 2013 - 07:41 AM.

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#80 OFFLINE   NaperDan

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

Yeah, ok, fellow Yankee fan. Is it illegal for the music industry to charge me for 3 vinyl albums, a cassette, and a CD of the same albums because the technology changes or the vinyl wears out or the tape snaps or the CD glue comes unstuck?

If I've purchased an album 5 times I don't feel any guilt in downloading the songs for free in mp3 form. And I don't feel guilty about dl'ing a movie which in almost every case sucks these days, which also explains why I only do about 2 or 3 movies a year at most and sleep through most of them. And if they don't want me to even do that, then tell Blu Ray player manufacturers not to include USB ports on their players and TV's that are put there for the express purpose of being to play video from a source other than a BluRay disc..


Here in the great Midwest our library carries a huge selection of movies/music that are available for "free" (paid for by property taxes). Hypothetically, I can stick a disk in my car, it's ripped onto the HDD. Hypothetically I can then copy it (because I have paid for it through taxes) for backup in case of a HDD failure. Hypothetically, movies can be copied for later viewing, not distribution.

It's a loose interpretation of the law, but so what.
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