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Receivers from commercial accounts?


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#1 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

Anyone know how equipment on commercial accounts is handled as far as owned or leased?

 

Someone told me that they thought receivers on commercial accounts is always owned but I'm curious - is that correct?

 

I'm looking for 'owned' HR24s and all that I've called on have been either been non-returned leased receivers or a couple were owned but had outstanding balances.  Amazing how pissy people get when you tell them that the receivers they are 'selling' will not be able to activated and the person that buys will be screwed.

 

I see on Solid Signal that the prices for commercial accounts are little higher so I'm wondering if maybe they are owned on commercial accounts.  If it's true what's to stop someone with a commercial account buying from Solid Signal, activating the receiver and then selling it as owned?  Then doing it all over again?

 

Can anyone confirm how the commercial receivers work?

 

Thanks!



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#2 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:34 PM

Anyone know how equipment on commercial accounts is handled as far as owned or leased?

 

Someone told me that they thought receivers on commercial accounts is always owned but I'm curious - is that correct?

 

I'm looking for 'owned' HR24s and all that I've called on have been either been non-returned leased receivers or a couple were owned but had outstanding balances.  Amazing how pissy people get when you tell them that the receivers they are 'selling' will not be able to activated and the person that buys will be screwed.

 

I see on Solid Signal that the prices for commercial accounts are little higher so I'm wondering if maybe they are owned on commercial accounts.  If it's true what's to stop someone with a commercial account buying from Solid Signal, activating the receiver and then selling it as owned?  Then doing it all over again?

 

Can anyone confirm how the commercial receivers work?

 

Thanks!

 

From the little I've read and talked to installers and tech about this, I've gathered that some commercial sites go thru quite a lot of DVRs.  I don't think I'd buy one.   I bought most of my owned HRs from MDU folks.  One owner and they've all worked well.

 

Rich



#3 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

From the little I've read and talked to installers and tech about this, I've gathered that some commercial sites go thru quite a lot of DVRs.  I don't think I'd buy one.   I bought most of my owned HRs from MDU folks.  One owner and they've all worked well.

 

Rich

Thanks Rich - I wish I could find a few legit 'owned' HR24s.  All that I've called on have been no-go.

 

I have a client that has 2 'extra' HR24s on their commercial account that I may be able to buy if I can use them.  I may just get the receiver IDs and call on those and see what DirecTV says.  I have another client with a commercial account that may have one they'd sell me also.

 

I just wish DirecTV would sell you me a couple of a decent price.  I can only imagine what they would want for HR44 once they are available everywhere!  If the HR2X is $500+ to own and they can't promise what model you'll get then the HR44 will probably be $1500!



#4 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:06 PM

Not quite what you're asking, but part of the big picture;

 

I've never had a lick of trouble putting recievers I have 'laying around' onto commercial accounts.  Last couple, D* didn't even bother sending new access cards.

 

Leased or owned doesn't even come up in the activation call.  In fact, I have called just to verify a box could be activated, and had it activated during that same call.  The flexiblity on the commercial side in this regard does not extend to residential accounts.  As for going the other way, and realizing D* can do anything they want, just from the ease of going into the commercial world with a residentially pedigreed box, I'd think going the other way would not be a big deal, but I would definitely like to hear from someone who's tried it.

 

LOL, maybe that's how the hinky ebay boxes can be cleansed????

 

:eek2:



#5 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:12 PM

Not quite what you're asking, but part of the big picture;

 

I've never had a lick of trouble putting recievers I have 'laying around' onto commercial accounts.  Last couple, D* didn't even bother sending new access cards.

 

Leased or owned doesn't even come up in the activation call.  In fact, I have called just to verify a box could be activated, and had it activated during that same call.  The flexiblity on the commercial side in this regard does not extend to residential accounts.  As for going the other way, and realizing D* can do anything they want, just from the ease of going into the commercial world with a residentially pedigreed box, I'd think going the other way would not be a big deal, but I would definitely like to hear from someone who's tried it.

 

LOL, maybe that's how the hinky ebay boxes can be cleansed????

 

:eek2:

I purchased an HR34 from a commercial account and was actually still working the day it arrived (though the commercial account had no DVR functions activated - go figure with a HR34). The unit was confirmed owned prior to purchase and I had no issue moving it to a residential account (of course a new card was issued).



#6 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

Thanks Rich - I wish I could find a few legit 'owned' HR24s.  All that I've called on have been no-go.

 

You have to be really persistent.  I've been lucky enough to get a couple that didn't work and were owned.  Both had bad power supplies and I put working PSs in them.  Don't forget CL, they usually have some owned HRs and you can usually get a look at them if you pick them up yourself.  I gotta see what this reply looks like.

 

I have a client that has 2 'extra' HR24s on their commercial account that I may be able to buy if I can use them.  I may just get the receiver IDs and call on those and see what DirecTV says.  I have another client with a commercial account that may have one they'd sell me also.

 

I would think about the usage and where they were placed.  I've heard tech stories about stacked HRs burning out because of the stacking and lack of ventilation.

 

I just wish DirecTV would sell you me a couple of a decent price.  I can only imagine what they would want for HR44 once they are available everywhere!  If the HR2X is $500+ to own and they can't promise what model you'll get then the HR44 will probably be $1500!

 

You're gonna pay ~ $300 on eBay for a working owned 24.  If I was gonna consider that, I'd spend the extra money and get a new owned 24 from D*.  Personally, I wouldn't do either.

 

Rich



#7 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

Not quite what you're asking, but part of the big picture;

 

I've never had a lick of trouble putting recievers I have 'laying around' onto commercial accounts.  Last couple, D* didn't even bother sending new access cards.

 

Leased or owned doesn't even come up in the activation call.  In fact, I have called just to verify a box could be activated, and had it activated during that same call.  The flexiblity on the commercial side in this regard does not extend to residential accounts.  As for going the other way, and realizing D* can do anything they want, just from the ease of going into the commercial world with a residentially pedigreed box, I'd think going the other way would not be a big deal, but I would definitely like to hear from someone who's tried it.

 

LOL, maybe that's how the hinky ebay boxes can be cleansed????

 

:eek2:

 

I've never had an installer or Tech activate an HR and mention owned or leased.  I've always had to call ACT and make sure the status is correct.  Oddly, a lot of mistakes are made when activation occurs, but I have yet to have a leased HR show up as owned.  Always leased.  You have to check if you have owned units replaced.

 

Rich



#8 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:45 PM

I've never had an installer or Tech activate an HR and mention owned or leased.  I've always had to call ACT and make sure the status is correct.  Oddly, a lot of mistakes are made when activation occurs, but I have yet to have a leased HR show up as owned.  Always leased.  You have to check if you have owned units replaced.

 

Rich

One you talk with ACT and they send you out a new access card, the card has a number to call to activate.

 

If one then goes through the queue and activates with the CSR you get connected to, it automatically is activated as a leased unit, even though one originally went through ACT to get the new card and confirmed the unit owned. ACT is the only department that can activate a unit and have it as owned in the system.



#9 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:54 PM

I purchased an HR34 from a commercial account 

I was under the impression that commercial accounts were not allow to have HR34s….


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#10 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

I was under the impression that commercial accounts were not allow to have HR34s….

 

Not working for D* I cannot tell you their policy in that regards. Perhaps they allow them because of the C31s clients or Samsung TVs? Or perhaps they did at some period? No idea. But I can tell you one of mine came from a commercial account. I can also tell you that the Access Card Department was somewhat miffed about it, asking how I got that particular box. I told them it was my belief the person was a DirecTV Employee and they told me it was a commercial account and the previous owner was not a DirecTV Employee. You now know as much as I do about that particular box :)



#11 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:04 PM

Yes COMM accounts have owned receivers..being that the account is n good standing then yes the rcvrs can be transferred, with the purchase of a new card. Yeah not sure how a HR34 got on a commerical account, not allowed which might explain the lack of use of DVR functions


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#12 OFFLINE   SomeRandomIdiot

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:36 PM

Yeah not sure how a HR34 got on a commerical account, not allowed which might explain the lack of use of DVR functions

 

If you really believe that HR34s are not allowed on commercial accounts, you might want to take that up with Solid Signal

 

http://www.solidsign...ercial-use-only



#13 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:05 PM

Yeah not sure how a HR34 got on a commerical account, not allowed which might explain the lack of use of DVR functions

 

DVR receivers are not allowed on certain commercial accounts such as those with Public Viewing environment (Bars, Restaurants, Shops, Gyms, Lobbies etc), they are allowed for Private Viewing based accounts (private offices etc.) and of course there is the DirecTV Residential Experience (DRE) for Hotels which allows DVRs in guest rooms.


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#14 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:57 PM

Wow...yeah wasn't thinking about that i was thinking straight COM type accounts...i guess HOS accts and others of that ilk would allow one...


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#15 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:29 PM

DVR receivers are not allowed on certain commercial accounts such as those with Public Viewing environment (Bars, Restaurants, Shops, Gyms, Lobbies etc), they are allowed for Private Viewing based accounts (private offices etc.) and of course there is the DirecTV Residential Experience (DRE) for Hotels which allows DVRs in guest rooms.

 

 

Are you sure about that? I have a commercial account, and I don't have any DVRs (though I'd certainly consider the idea for the future) but the commercial public viewing account agreement has a clause specifically allowing "authorized" DVR recording and playback. What's "authorized"? No one knows. I've been in sports bars that have DVRs they used to play back games. Maybe that's allowed, maybe it isn't, but if those guys are violating the rules you can hardly blame them because Directv doesn't make this information available anywhere! Of course, the agreement also states the maximum number of receivers per account is 20, and I have more than that, so maybe it is wrong about DVRs as well. It isn't as though I had to do anything special to activate the 21st receiver, in fact I never even heard about this limit until recently, years after I went over 20.

 

It would sure be nice if their website didn't completely suck for commercial accounts and it was possible to actually find out anything for sure, rather than relying on calling them up and getting some random information from a CSR who doesn't know and will give you a different answer from the guy sitting next to him. As it stands, I could call up Directv, ask them a question like "can I add a DVR to my account?", be told it is fine, do it, and then get in big trouble later because it is against the updated commercial account agreement, or violates their licensing agreement with third parties. Directv's communication is awful, the confusion about the status of commercial receivers is the tip of the iceberg. If you want to actually try to play by the rules and not do anything wrong, you can't do much of anything because it's not possible to get anything in writing when you call them up. I know, I've tried.

 

For instance, if you look on their site, they talk about a fee of $15/receiver on commercial accounts. Well, I have a couple dozen active receivers (and another dozen receivers that are authorized as far as Directv knows, but show "authorized expired" when I start them up because they were unused for several years) and pay exactly $0 per month in receiver fees. I guess because of the way I acquired them I "own" them all, but I can't be sure. Maybe if I posted this under my real name someone at Directv reading this could trace me back to my business, check the records and see I'm not paying per-receiver fees, and send me a bill for thirty thousand dollars in arrears. Maybe if I tried to sell one they'd tell me I'm leasing it. Maybe they'd tell the buyer it can't be transferred to a commercial account. Who knows? That alone is enough reason not to ever try to sell any receiver I don't need anymore, what if someone trying to activate a receiver I sold them gets someone checking my account and discovers I'm being billed incorrectly, or that I have too many receivers on my account?

 

Instead I've kept all my obsolete/broken receivers in a closet because I didn't know how to properly dispose of them. Thanks to Directv having a recycling program I started checking them out to see which ones I may hang on to and which I'm going to send them to recycle. I'll hang on to the H10s because they have an ATSC tuner and can output HDMI. Don't have a use for that today but I can see some potential uses in the future. I'll send them my D10s and a few broken H20s to recycle, because even if I could sell the working D10s their value would be far too small to be worth the hassle. I really have no other choice because trying to get answers from Directv that you can be sure they'll stand behind is absolutely impossible. I spend over $10K a year, you'd think I would get decent customer service. Back when I was a 1K flier on United or platinum on Delta, they had a special number I could call and always got the best customer service. With Directv, being an elite "frequent flier" is meaningless, as far as I can tell I get the same CSRs that a business with one 10 year old receiver subscribed to the lowest end info package gets.

 

You residential guys think it is bad that they won't tell you why you can't have two Genies, I can't even get a straight answer I can rely on about whether I can have a DVR at all, or if I add one whether it would be so limited as to be worthless to me. If I knew for sure I could add them and that there were few/no restrictions about recording/playback, I'd be looking to add three HR44s in time for next football season. I've asked them before when calling about various things, they've told me DVRs are not permitted on my account, and also told me that DVRs are fine and I can record anything I want except PPV movies (which I don't care about) Who should I believe? The web site's FAQ is absolutely useless. You would think one or two commercial customers have asked this question before me. I could just do it and hope for the best, after all maybe I'm already getting away with something not paying any receiver fees. But I really don't want to wake up one morning and find I'm being sued by the NFL :)


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#16 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:43 PM

Are you sure about that? I have a commercial account, and I don't have any DVRs (though I'd certainly consider the idea for the future) but the commercial public viewing account agreement has a clause specifically allowing "authorized" DVR recording and playback. What's "authorized"? No one knows. I've been in sports bars that have DVRs they used to play back games. Maybe that's allowed, maybe it isn't, but if those guys are violating the rules you can hardly blame them because Directv doesn't make this information available anywhere! Of course, the agreement also states the maximum number of receivers per account is 20, and I have more than that, so maybe it is wrong about DVRs as well. It isn't as though I had to do anything special to activate the 21st receiver, in fact I never even heard about this limit until recently, years after I went over 20.


http://forums.signal...4-genie-for-bar

 

I have a DirecTV Commercial Sales Guide and it shows the equipment available for the different types of accounts. Public Viewing (Bars, Lounges, Restaurants, Casinos, Coffee Shops) and Business Viewing (Auto Shops, Health Clubs, Banks, Salons, Waiting Areas) accounts are not eligible for SD or HD DVRs whereas Private Viewing (Private Offices, Conference Rooms, Employee Break Rooms) accounts are eligible for SD or HD DVRs.


List of networks with HD VOD content available on DIRECTV   DIRECTV Customer Service Live Online Chat (available from 8am-1am ET)   DIRECTV Regional Sports Network (RSN) fee lookup tool (zip code required)
 
DIRECTV Premium Channel Pricing: 1=$13.99 ($17.99 for HBO) | 2=$25 ($30 with HBO) | 3=$35 ($40 with HBO) | 4=$43 ($48 with HBO) | All 5=$55 per month 
 
My Setup: 5-LNB SlimLine with SWM-16 | HR44-700 w/AM-21N | HR24-200 | H25-100 | H25-100 | C41-500


#17 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:28 PM

That's nice, but doesn't exactly give me a definitive answer. As I said, I've been in more than one sports bar that made heavy use of DVRs, even promoting the fact they had them in their advertising. I recall one in LA I was in a year or two ago that had a couple huge video walls (the kind that cost tens of thousands of dollars to put together, and hundreds of thousands if not millions on other decor) that was replaying NBA games. No offense to the guys at Solid Signal, but if it isn't allowed, how did these places get their DVRs activated on their account? I know for a fact they had Directv because I saw them going through the menus to play one of the games. I kind of doubt if they spent that much money elsewhere that they're going to risk a giant lawsuit cheating the system by using DVRs activated on a residential account.

 

Here's a link to one I've been in that I can recall the name of, located outside of Sacramento. I don't see anything on their web site mentioning the DVRs, but when I was in there a few years ago they were playing Premiere League matches recorded from the morning.

 

http://www.davisgrad.com/

 

The guys at Solid Signal say one thing, experience seeing them in sports bars says another. One CSR says one thing, another CSR says another. This is exactly why Directv needs to provide this information itself instead of letting others do it for them, because that's clearly not working when no one can agree what the correct answer is.

 

Perfect example of that when I checked that solidsignal.com forum you linked to. There was a post there about Directv's iPad app supporting commercial customers. All you need is a directv.com account. Well, in the past I've tried (and emailed and called) but they don't let commercial customers create an account. Just checked, the website still has a message saying only residential customers can create a directv.com account. That's not Solid Signal's fault, just another example of how Directv can't keep their message straight for commercial accounts. Here it is 2013, and their biggest dollar accounts have to make a phone call for everything? Seriously?? I'm surprised they don't have us faxing them... Nice that their iPad app has added some capability for commercial customers, but exactly zero will be using it unless there's some secret way to create an account there I'm not privy to.


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#18 OFFLINE   coolman302003

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:34 PM

The DirecTV Commercial Sales Guide as I stated above specifically shows the different equipment you can use on the commercial accounts based on the viewing type (Public, Business or Private).


List of networks with HD VOD content available on DIRECTV   DIRECTV Customer Service Live Online Chat (available from 8am-1am ET)   DIRECTV Regional Sports Network (RSN) fee lookup tool (zip code required)
 
DIRECTV Premium Channel Pricing: 1=$13.99 ($17.99 for HBO) | 2=$25 ($30 with HBO) | 3=$35 ($40 with HBO) | 4=$43 ($48 with HBO) | All 5=$55 per month 
 
My Setup: 5-LNB SlimLine with SWM-16 | HR44-700 w/AM-21N | HR24-200 | H25-100 | H25-100 | C41-500


#19 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:24 AM

Like I said, the information they provide is conflicting. The sales guide you're referring to may not list DVRs as available for public viewing, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't allowed to be activated on an account. The most recent public viewing agreement I saw specifically carved out an exception to the rule against recording/rebroadcasting for "authorized" DVRs, but that certainly doesn't mean they are allowed, either. Or if allowed tell you what restrictions there would be in exactly what you can record.

 

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, I suspect you're likely correct. But it is frustrating that I can't get a straight answer from Directv, they don't make this information available anywhere on their web site, and I see others doing it openly even in the city in which Directv is based. Am I to believe that none of their employees have ever walked in there and ratted them out? Or maybe they know the "right people" so they get to do something others cannot?

 

Whether it is or is not permitted to have DVRs on public viewing accounts I haven't been given the right answer because I've asked twice and been given both answers. The CSR who told me I could add DVRs sounded very certain about this, even after I made a point of reminding her I was a public viewing customer, sports bar, etc. and saying I had been under the impression it was not permitted for my type of account. She said I could add DVRs to my account to record and playback anything I wanted except pay per view. She even mentioned the Genie when I asked about the capabilities of the DVRs I could get, stating that I wouldn't be able to get that because it wasn't available for my account type. That's a surprisingly detailed "wrong" answer.

 

Sometime in the next few days when I have some time to kill, I may call them up again and see what they tell me this time. Maybe now that the HR44 is soon to be in wide release they'll tell me I can get a Genie...would just need to find a way to get that rep to give me something in writing and I'd be ordering a third SWM-16 to prepare! :contract:


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#20 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:47 AM

Wow - I guess it's difficult to know what's what!

 

Is all the equipment on commercial accounts ALWAYS owned or is some of it leased?






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