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Receivers from commercial accounts?


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#21 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

How many 'flavors' of commercial accounts are there?

 

 

There would be bars.

 

But what about an employee (only)  break room at the bar?  What about the owners private office? The owners private residence upstairs? An apartment in the same building?

 

Then nursing homes.

 

a head system with 30 D* receivers, and 30 modulators piped to residents rooms only.  Same system connected to a TV in a common area for the residents (activity room). Same system connected to a TV in a public waiting room.  Same system connected to a TV in the beauty parlor operated by nursing home staff.  Beauty parlor operated by a independent contractor.  Beauty parlor operated by a chain like Quick Cuts.  Same system providing dish signal directly to a resident room for their own account.  Receiver in owners private living quarters.  Receiver in owners private office with or with out his private residence in the building.

 

Oil change store

 

waiting room for customers, owners office, employee break room

 

 

See where this is headed?  I bet there are different rules for most if not all these scenarios, and also, it looks like the rules have changed over time.

 

There may not be a rule for every situation, and anything that winds up in court is going to be a crap shoot (unfortunately) as to how vague and imprecise rules get interpretted by judiciary after lawyers and experts have totally confused the issue(s).

 

Even on residential accounts, there are confusing situations I can imagine.  Couple separates, husband moves into apartment with an existing dish connection and connects 1 receiver he took from home. When does D* want him on his own account? When he moves out? When divorce is filed?  Or when divorce is granted? Will D* combine accounts if divorce is called off at any of those steps and husband moves back home if the husband has (prematurely) gotten his own account? will D* treat a seperated spouse as a mover for a movers connection?  LOL, what if seperated spouse winds up living in his private office at the bar he owns?

 

 

 I'm thinking there are so many gray areas DirecTV is going to say both yes and no to virtually every 'weird' scenario that turns up, especially if someone calls more than once. Even relatively 'simple' questions posed to DirecTV (can I activate RID 0299 9143 1111 on my account?) get different answers depending who you talk to and when, how can we expect D* to have a 'clue' on any of the weird permutations that turn up ?

 



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#22 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:04 AM

The best thing to do is not to call 1-800-DIRECTV (as they are generally trained on residential accounts) but to locate a local commercial dealer who is certified to offer the kind of service you want (or example bars&restaurants, hotel, offices, etc.) You are right that there are many many different programs -- even one specific to oil rigs, for example -- and that dealer can give you the real heads up on your situation. 


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#23 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:42 AM

Wow - I guess it's difficult to know what's what!

 

Is all the equipment on commercial accounts ALWAYS owned or is some of it leased?

 

 

See, I don't even know the answer to this, or how to find out for sure, which is kind of ridiculous. I guess the people at Solid Signal could tell you whether the equipment they sell marked as "for commercial accounts only" is owned by the buyer or leased (it doesn't specify) but beyond that? All I know is that I don't pay monthly fees for any of my receivers, though I can't say for sure if that has always been the case. The oldest of my receivers (H10s and D10s) my original installer provided. The newest ones (H24/AM21) were bought through a Directv reseller out of Illinois that either Directv or my original installer hooked us up with.

 

I also bought a few H20s new off Newegg and I believe four used off Ebay. I really tried hard to get H20s for a while because of the OTA tuner, but by the time I bought the next batch I didn't want to risk used ones, especially after the hassle of the H20-600 recall. Now that I think about it, part of the hassle I had may have had to do with the way I acquired some of my H20s! ;) Maybe some of these "purchases" were/are considered leased receivers by Directv, I don't know. But they still activated them on my account. I know we had to pay $20 for new access cards for the Ebay receivers, not sure about the Newegg ones.

 

I guess whether Directv considers them to be owned by me or them doesn't really matter to me if I'm not paying monthly fees. If I called to cancel tomorrow, maybe they'd want them all back!


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#24 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:53 AM

I've never had an installer or Tech activate an HR and mention owned or leased.  I've always had to call ACT and make sure the status is correct.  Oddly, a lot of mistakes are made when activation occurs, but I have yet to have a leased HR show up as owned.  Always leased.  You have to check if you have owned units replaced.

 

Rich

I have been told by techs the only way they can activate them is leased.  I think its out of the norm for them and they are to lazy to call the Access Card Department to do it right.  For that reason, I try to have all my replacement receivers drop shipped so I can handle it the correct way and Rich you are correct, you should always call back a few days or a week later to confirm the commitment date.


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#25 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

One you talk with ACT and they send you out a new access card, the card has a number to call to activate.

 

If one then goes through the queue and activates with the CSR you get connected to, it automatically is activated as a leased unit, even though one originally went through ACT to get the new card and confirmed the unit owned. ACT is the only department that can activate a unit and have it as owned in the system.

That is correct but if you ignore what you are told and call the Access Card Department directly at 877-887-7994, they will get it taken care of for you.  DirecTV is in the leas business so naturally if a receiver is not handled correctly it will revert to a lease and a new 2 year agreement.  Always pays to just contact the Access Card Department and get it done the correct way and that is a promise!


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#26 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:09 PM

I just called and spent 45 minutes being transferred around until I got someone who claimed to be able to email me something about their rules on this, who told me a third story! She said I can't have "DVR service" on my account, so I can activate them, but they will operate as a normal receiver. But she said I can get DVR service if I wanted to put one in an office or employee lounge, which contradicts her earlier statement that I can't get DVR service on the account. I asked about the contradiction, and she said what she's emailing me explains it all. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if I never receive this email :)

 

As I mentioned before, I'd always assumed I couldn't have DVRs until I started seeing places openly advertising and using them. This really makes wonder why Directv doesn't do anything about them. Maybe they don't care because they aren't losing money like they do when someone uses a residential account in their business? I've read about them suing people for that. Maybe they don't care and leave it to the NFL or MLB to file suit over use of DVRs in public venues? Maybe that place I linked to earlier that was playing Premiere League matches isn't really doing anything wrong, the Premiere League may not care if a sports bar records and replays their matches in the US. Not like there will be a lot of people watching them live in the Pacific time zone.

 

Maybe the places I've seen with DVRs got around it by saying they were for the office. Though you'd think Directv would be suspicious of someone with 8 DVRs in their office!


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#27 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:28 PM

DirecTV makes a point of alerting that calls may be or are recorded, kinda looks like if the reidential public, prosumer public, and the commercial public started recording their calls too, you wouldn't have to wait for an e-mail confirmation that never comes, you would be protected from goofy 'account notations' at D* end of things and you would have either or both plausilbe deniability/ detrimental reliance if things got nasty from a legal stand point.

 

I don't know if the new DBS site software allows audio snippets, but the humor value alone could be priceless. "Hey guys, listen to what D* CSR just told me now !!!!!!!"

 

!rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling



#28 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

I have been told by techs the only way they can activate them is leased.  I think its out of the norm for them and they are to lazy to call the Access Card Department to do it right.  For that reason, I try to have all my replacement receivers drop shipped so I can handle it the correct way and Rich you are correct, you should always call back a few days or a week later to confirm the commitment date.

 

Yup, you have to verify or you'll have problems up the road.

 

Rich



#29 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:08 PM

Wow - I just stopped at a 'dealer' on my way home.  I asked about owned vs leased in an attempt to get real answers from someone that deals with them every day.  I didn't get to the commercial questions because the guy didn't even get it right on the residential side...

 

He was completely certain that if I 'bought' the receivers and paid full price ($125 for H25, $225 for HR24) that they would be owned by me.  I told him that it sounded like he was giving me commercial prices and they should be $99 and $199 but would be 'leased' and that I had just talked to DirecTV.  He said the person I talked to didn't know what they talking about.  He did say no matter what there is a 2 year commitment...  Owned or Leased...

 

We all know this information is completely wrong but he wasn't going to listen to me!  The scary part is that they had piles for HR24NC-500 DVRS and H25NC-100s sitting there so they must do quite a bit of business.  Doesn't the C in the part number mean 'Commercial'?

 

Alas - we may never know how it all works!



#30 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:30 PM

Was this person a DIRECTV for Business dealer? 

 

The NC means "No cables" and refers to a bare box that is shipped without a packet of cables. The commercial receivers have the same part numbers as the residential ones. 


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#31 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:00 PM

Was this person a DIRECTV for Business dealer? 

 

The NC means "No cables" and refers to a bare box that is shipped without a packet of cables. The commercial receivers have the same part numbers as the residential ones. 

I'm not sure if they are a 'DirecTV for Business' dealer or not.  I got their name and address from one of my clients that is a commercial customer.  These guys installed their system.  Appeared to be a pretty big operation compared to the other DirecTV retailers I have seen.  

 

Seemed like pretty decent, friendly guys - but way misinformed!

 

Ah, that makes sense on the NC...



#32 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:16 PM

I'm not sure if they are a 'DirecTV for Business' dealer or not.  I got their name and address from one of my clients that is a commercial customer.  These guys installed their system.  Appeared to be a pretty big operation compared to the other DirecTV retailers I have seen.  

 

Seemed like pretty decent, friendly guys - but way misinformed!

 

Ah, that makes sense on the NC...

Update - they still don't get it.

 

I 'purchased' an HR24 from the same people yesterday to replace an old Tivo at a friends house.  I was told, again, that because I was 'paying' full price for the receiver and not getting it for free that I (my friend in this case) would own it.  I told they guy again that DirecTV doesn't agree and that it was really a lease and a two year commitment.  He replied 'You will have a two year commitment - leased or owned when you activate a receiver it starts a two year commitment'.  When I pointed out that the box itself said it was a 'leased' receiver he said 'That only applies to new accounts that are getting free equipment'.

 

I simply told him that he may want to get with DirecTV themselves to verify how it all worked.

 

When I hooked up the new receiver my friend called DirecTV to activate it.  He had them on speakerphone so I heard the entire conversation.  It was surprisingly quick and easy to activate - they asked the name on the account and which receiver the new one was replacing, then for the receiver number, verified the card number and he was good to go.  What was not so great about this call was that they didn't say anything about the receiver starting a new two year commitment let alone anything about a 'lease'.

 

No wonder so many people try to sell 'leased' receivers!  If I hadn't told my friend that it was a leased box that he'd have to return and that he was committing to another 2 years he would have thought he owned it and that he could cancel whenever he felt like it.

 

I think DirecTV needs to spend a few bucks of their billions on some training! 


Edited by Mike Greer, 26 April 2013 - 12:19 PM.


#33 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

I never did receive the promised email listing the policy for DVRs on public viewing accounts. Doesn't sound like third parties are any more help in finding out any accurate information. You can go by what you're told by either Directv employees or third party partners, but neither one can be relied on. They really need to massively improve their web site to fix this issue.

 

 

As far as your buddy goes, if he tried to cancel service this fall, and was told he had 18 months left on his commitment, I wonder if he'd be able to get out of it? If Directv doesn't provide him anything in writing, and he can truthfully state that it was never mentioned when he called in to activate, I don't see how they could hold him to it. Is there some sort of fine print when you sign up that says if you activate any new equipment on the account that it starts a new 24 month commitment? Or maybe some EULA type piece of paper somewhere in the box the receiver comes from?

 

Does anyone know what it costs you to terminate Directv service early? My dad just called me a couple days ago asking about Directv since he's becoming more and more unhappy with his cable provider and figured Directv could save him money. Then he could probably save money again because I'll bet his cable company will send him some sweetheart deals to try to win him back. I looked at the package and equipment he wants and he could probably save $600 in the first year (minus $200 because my mom will want her own DVR) and at worst break even in the second year. But perhaps I better find out how nasty of a contract he'd be signing before I tell him to pull the trigger.

 

The whole business of signing people up for contract extensions they are not aware of sounds like a bait and switch type deal to me, assuming your friend's experience is not uncommon. I suppose like most companies they use the threat of damaging your credit to prevent you from leaving before the new 24 month commitment you didn't know about is up? What sort of early termination fees would apply, or do they simply make you continue your service the entire 24 months?

 

Do commercial accounts have 24 month contract periods like residential accounts? If I activate a new receiver, or maybe renew NFLST for the next season am I creating a new 24 month commitment I didn't know about? I don't really care now because I don't have much choice in provider thanks to stuff like NFLST and MLBEI, but if Directv lost exclusivity on those, I'd be ready to fight it in court if they told me I had to stick around for a couple years with a service I had no need for due to a commitment I was never made aware of.


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#34 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:37 PM

there is a fee of $20.00 per month for each month not completed in your contract.  Adding services like NFL and the like, does NOT extends or creates a new contract


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#35 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:33 PM

slice1900 - 

 

 

The Early Termination Fee is as stated above.  I'm not sure about the fine-print when originally sign up or how a legal fight would turn out...  I'm sure DirecTV would happily go to court if forced to but most would say the fight and the credit report hit makes it a losing proposition.  DirecTV knows that and I'm sure that's why they seem to be so lax in making sure people know when they are renewing a commitment.

 

Not sure how common it is that they don't tell the customer when they call to activate.  I don't remember if they told me when I renewed mine a few years back or not.  I knew the deal before I 'purchased' as in leased my current receivers.



#36 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:38 PM

 

As far as your buddy goes, if he tried to cancel service this fall, and was told he had 18 months left on his commitment, I wonder if he'd be able to get out of it? If Directv doesn't provide him anything in writing, and he can truthfully state that it was never mentioned when he called in to activate, I don't see how they could hold him to it. Is there some sort of fine print when you sign up that says if you activate any new equipment on the account that it starts a new 24 month commitment? Or maybe some EULA type piece of paper somewhere in the box the receiver comes from?

The box itself said it was a 'leased' receiver.


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#37 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:58 PM

there is a fee of $20.00 per month for each month not completed in your contract.  Adding services like NFL and the like, does NOT extends or creates a new contract

 

Thanks! That's not too bad when measured against the kind of savings providers will typically offer you as a new or "we miss you" deal. The savings for the first year alone should make Directv a good choice for him, and gives him plenty of time to see how he likes it. Worst case if he hates Directv he can go back to exactly what he has now and the discount the cable company would likely give to win him back pays his out of pocket to Directv for the $199 DVR and the ETF fee (and I guess I'd end up with a spare dish for my business in case hail dents mine ;))


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#38 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

The box itself said it was a 'leased' receiver.

 

I was talking about the contract being extended back out to 24 months when it is activated. If that's not listed on/in the box anywhere, and they don't tell you when you call in to activate, how are you supposed to know?


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#39 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:02 PM

The box itself said it was a 'leased' receiver.

Trouble is that if an installer installs it the end user wouldn't necessarily see the box.  Also the boxes on my receivers that I picked up at a local dealer didn't say anything but 'DirecTV' on them.

 

You'd think it would be easy enough for the person activating the receiver to take an extra 5 seconds to say something like 'In activating this leased receiver you are agreeing to keep DirecTV service for 24 months, if you cancel early you will be subject to an early termination fee'.  Done. 


Edited by Mike Greer, 26 April 2013 - 04:03 PM.


#40 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

Thanks! That's not too bad when measured against the kind of savings providers will typically offer you as a new or "we miss you" deal. The savings for the first year alone should make Directv a good choice for him, and gives him plenty of time to see how he likes it. Worst case if he hates Directv he can go back to exactly what he has now and the discount the cable company would likely give to win him back pays his out of pocket to Directv for the $199 DVR and the ETF fee (and I guess I'd end up with a spare dish for my business in case hail dents mine ;))

Want to be sure....  If he cancels two weeks in he'll owe a $480 ETF fee.






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