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Maximum RG6 run for C-31 Client?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   sgibson

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:35 PM

Family member had a DirecTV Whole House upgrade today. DTV installed SWM-16, Deca adapter and  1-HR34 and 2-C31 Clients. All are ok but C-31 Client on longest run (existing RG6 approx. 75' from SWM-16 ) not getting signal, according to DTV installer. Using the existing HR21-200 on the 75' run signal is fine. DTV installed deca adapter and left the HR21 there. Is that okay or should  DIRECTV swap for a H25 unit? Is 75ft too far for Genie Clients?

 

sgibson


Edited by sgibson, 22 April 2013 - 05:56 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   west99999

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

75ft should not be too long. I would keep the HDDVR over the C31 client though.



#3 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:03 PM

Since the clients "operates" on the "DECA" frequencies, which are lower then the satellite (SWM) frequencies, it can go a lot further than a satellite receiver.  75 feet should be of no problem for a client.  But I agree with west9999999999999, I would keep the HDDVR though.


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#4 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

Ya. Genie clients are connected MoCA, and the MoCA folks claim up to 300', IIRC, assuming the proper cable and the compression fittings are good.
/steve

#5 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

just to clarify, there is no difference in (signal attenuation) SCC or CCS when connecting a client 


Here’s to the crazy ones.
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#6 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:15 PM

I've tested this. If you use an 8-way splitter, the signal will peter out after about 140 feet. Direct from the SWM I would expect about 260 feet.


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#7 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:34 PM

I am living this with an 85 ft run to the C31 off another 85ft run off the HR34 (off the same 4 way splitter) and it is absolutely fine. I've had this in place for some time with no appreciable problems. I agree with the others that keeping the DVR would be better however this solution is functional albeit the C31 is sluggish to respond to many things. . . But frankly if you get used to that, it is a great little workhorse.

 

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#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:02 PM

Family member had a DirecTV Whole House upgrade today. DTV installed SWM-16, Deca adapter and  1-HR34 and 3-H31 Clients. All are ok but C-31 Client on longest run (existing RG6 approx. 75' from SWM-16 ) not getting signal, according to DTV installer. Using the existing HR21-200 on the 75' run signal is fine. DTV installed deca adapter and left the HR21 there. Is that okay or should  DIRECTV swap for a H25 unit? Is 75ft too far for Genie Clients?

 

sgibson

It isn't as simple as "is 75' too much?".

The loss from the Genie to the client needs to be addressed. The most loss would be the Genie on one side of the SWiM-16 and the client on the other side.

Coax lengths and splitters all add up to the total loss along with the crossover loss of the SWiM-16.


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#9 OFFLINE   west99999

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

Don't know why they would even install a SWM16 not that I think about it. Even with the HR34 HR21 and 3 Clients all you need is a SWM LNB.



#10 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:50 PM

Ya. Genie clients are connected MoCA, and the MoCA folks claim up to 300', IIRC, assuming the proper cable and the compression fittings are good.

That being said, most MoCA folks are running at more than double the radio frequency that DECA rides and that probably has some impact on the splitter's ability to carry the signal up-stream.

 

It seems that a C31 should have approximately the same performance parameters as a DECA adapter but apparently that's not the case.  Perhaps they cut the broadcast power to maintain Energy Star.


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#11 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:55 PM

The loss from the Genie to the client needs to be addressed.

Since the DECA adapter is working in the same situation, maybe the problem lies in the C31?


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#12 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

That being said, most MoCA folks are running at more than double the radio frequency that DECA rides and that probably has some impact on the splitter's ability to carry the signal up-stream.

 

It seems that a C31 should have approximately the same performance parameters as a DECA adapter but apparently that's not the case.  Perhaps they cut the broadcast power to maintain Energy Star.

 

I think you're looking in the wrong direction here. MoCA claims a 300' run with no splitters in between. My real world testing of the same scenario reaches 260', which is probably within the margin of error. However, most folks do not use straight runs; they use splitters. A 1x8 splitter gives about a 14dB loss by itself IIRC... I don't have the numbers in front of me and VOS probably can quote them in his head. The splitters involved will give you an idea of the maximum theoretical run, and then you have to factor in all those pesky real-world things that happen. 


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#13 OFFLINE   vapor21

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:07 PM

Family member had a DirecTV Whole House upgrade today. DTV installed SWM-16, Deca adapter and  1-HR34 and 2-C31 Clients. All are ok but C-31 Client on longest run (existing RG6 approx. 75' from SWM-16 ) not getting signal, according to DTV installer. Using the existing HR21-200 on the 75' run signal is fine. DTV installed deca adapter and left the HR21 there. Is that okay or should  DIRECTV swap for a H25 unit? Is 75ft too far for Genie Clients?

 

sgibson

You don't even need the SWIM16 in this setup.



#14 OFFLINE   sgibson

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

Since the DECA adapter is working in the same situation, maybe the problem lies in the C31?

 

I thought the C31 could be the culprit also. Coax connectors all look good! Glad to hear 75ft is well within the limits.

Family member will follow dbstalk member's advice and keep the HR21-200. What about the C31 the DTV installer left behind? Hold it for awhile or have DTV pick it up?

Thanks to all for your expertise and advice! Along with avsforums, this is my goto place for Satellite info, advice, know-how. Hangin' out with the pros!
 



#15 OFFLINE   west99999

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:30 PM

If the C31 is activated then they will pay monthly fee on it. I would call and deactivate and they should send a recovery kit for it.



#16 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:48 PM

Right, you don't want to keep it unless you would not mind paying the $6.00 monthly fee that comes along with having the client.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#17 OFFLINE   sgibson

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:11 AM

Family member had a DirecTV Whole House upgrade today. DTV installed SWM-16, Deca adapter and  1-HR34 and 2-C31 Clients. All are ok but C-31 Client on longest run (existing RG6 approx. 75' from SWM-16 ) not getting signal, according to DTV installer. Using the existing HR21-200 on the 75' run signal is fine. DTV installed deca adapter and left the HR21 there. Is that okay or should  DIRECTV swap for a H25 unit? Is 75ft too far for Genie Clients?

 

sgibson

As a continuation on C-31 "No Signal" I posted about earlier, here's more info.
Family member's house was built in '95, electrician ran 1- RG6 to each room. I assisted with DirecTV self-installed, one 40ft run was about 20ft short of the switch posistion. To make up the difference, another piece of RG-6 was added via a barrel connector. Connection was wrapped with vinyl tape. All was ok with single RG-6 until Whole Home upgrade was done. C-31 client was getting a "No Signal" message. HR21-200 works fine with single RG-6, but with Deca adapter (wireless) hooked up to Sat 1 and Ethernet 1 cannot record 2- channels at once. Is the barrel connector the culprit? Any other options to fix this (other then working thru unfinished attic and snaking thru finished walls)

 

tia,
sgibson


Edited by sgibson, 27 April 2013 - 08:15 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

It would help to get more information, as I don't think you've posted everything in this system.

So far: SWiM-16, 1 Genie, 1 HR21, + 2 clients.

This isn't enough for DirecTV to have installed a SWiM-16.


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#19 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:45 AM

As a continuation on C-31 "No Signal" I posted about earlier, here's more info.
Family member's house was built in '95, electrician ran 1- RG6 to each room. I assisted with DirecTV self-installed, one 40ft run was about 20ft short of the switch posistion. To make up the difference, another piece of RG-6 was added via a barrel connector. Connection was wrapped with vinyl tape. All was ok with single RG-6 until Whole Home upgrade was done. C-31 client was getting a "No Signal" message. HR21-200 works fine with single RG-6, but with Deca adapter (wireless) hooked up to Sat 1 and Ethernet 1 cannot record 2- channels at once. Is the barrel connector the culprit? Any other options to fix this (other then working thru unfinished attic and snaking thru finished walls)

 

tia,
sgibson

First, rerun satellite setup on HR21-200 and make sure two tuner option is selected when prompted. And if I'm understanding this correctly, you are using a wireless-CCK as a receiver DECA, then you must install a DECA BSF between it's coax output and the Sat 1 input on the HR21. 


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