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20 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

I am aware that Directv has started putting out HDCP on many channels.  HDMI is not used in this case.   I am using an R22 to feed into a Sony dvd-r recorder via composite jacks to archive some recordings.  Lately, on many channels, including Discovery, about ten seconds in I get "unable to record copy protected movie" and the recorder stops.  Because I am no spring chicken and this is not my first rodeo I decided to modulate the composite signal to RF and went thru the built in tuner of the recorder.  Same thing!  (I was not expecting that, because if anyone remembers copying VHS tapes with macrovision you would go thru composite for picture clarity and use a macrovision decoder instead of using the RF ins and outs that were not affected by the macrovision signal)...  So, before I order a new macrovision decoder (ok, we will call it a digital video stabilizer) does anyone know for sure if I am dealing with a macrovision signal or do I need to go in a different direction all together?  I assure you I am not making 5,000 copies of the Brady Bunch to sell on ebay - just archiving a few things before my hard drive takes a dirt nap.



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#2 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

You probably have the receiver connected via HDMI at the same time you're using the composite output? Many devices that support HDMI/HDCP will disable other outputs when you're connected via HDMI, since that activates HDCP. That's probably what is happening here. If you disconnect the HDMI cable while you're archiving and have only the composite output active, it should work as desired.

 

Yes, this makes no sense, since you get the same video from the composite output whether or not the HDMI output is active, but when it comes to copy protection a lot of things don't make sense.

 

You might be able to use the composite and remain connected to an HDTV at the same time if you make the TV connection via component instead of HDMI. Yes, that makes even less sense, since there are a few models of DVD recorders with component inputs, which would allow you to make a near-perfect HD copy. I'm sure the MPAA has spent plenty of money over the years lobbying bribing congressmen to allow them to require disabling the component output via firmware update on all HDCP compliant devices. Someday they might even succeed, when the congressmen figure that people who have HDTVs that offer only component inputs are few enough in number it won't get them too many calls from angry constituents.


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#3 ONLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

Do you have your DVD recorder connected to the TV via HDMI?  If so, change it to component and your problem should go away.  There can't be HDMI anywhere in the chain of receiver -> DVD Recorder -> TV.

 

Also, if you R22 is connected to your TV via HDMI, then the TV needs to be turned on, in order to record to the DVD recorder.



#4 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:10 PM

I knew people would be asking about HDMI and that is why i specified in the very first two sentences that I was aware of the HDCP issues, and I also mentioned HDMI is not being used.  not even attached.  I have been in the industry since 1987 and I am extremely knowledgable.   So, again, HDMI is not used - in fact, in this room, not a single HDMI cable is even hiding in the corner under the lazyboy.  The problem does not vary if the show was recorded on the R22 I am feeding out of or if it was recorded on the other DVR on my network.   Composite or RF the issue exists.   Ultimately I am hoping someone else archives to a dvd-r and has been thru this issue.  I am not above ruling out that my sony dvd-r is finicky compared to others but that is an extemely long shot.



#5 ONLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:58 PM

Ultimately I am hoping someone else archives to a dvd-r and has been thru this issue. 

 

I do and I have have been through this issue.  However, the resolution to my problems were the ones that I previously mentioned.  As soon as I got rid of the HDMI cable between my DVD recorder and the TV and made sure that I kept my TV turned on when recording HDCP protected content, my problem went away.

 

One thing that I do find from time to time is that I get the HDCP message when I first turn the DVD player on, if the TV input is from the DVD player.  If I change the TV input to HDMI and set the DVR back to HD, and then go back to the Component input (which is how the DVD recorder is connected to the TV) and set the DVR back to SD, the message goes away and I can record again.  I don't know of this just resets an HDMI handshake or if having a signal directly between my DVR and TV (without the DVD recorder in the middle) is resetting something.  But it works.

 

I don't know if your only connection between the R-22 and the TV is through the DVD recorder or not.  But, if it is, maybe you might want to make a separate connection directly from the R-22 to the TV as well.  Then you can determine whether resetting TV inputs "fixes" things for you, the same way that it does for me.



#6 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

OK, FIGURED IT OUT.  I have several R22's stacked which basically gave me the genie several years ago.  All are controlled via UHF except one, which is controlled via IR.  The one that is controlled via IR only has two outputs being used - one composite that goes to a slingbox, and the other composite that goes to the dvd-r, and then loops to the television via composite for monitoring.   I have unhooked the sling so the only thing hooked up is the recorder.  Still experienced the issue.  On my way out of my shop I rememberred I had a SIMA stabilizer and inserted it between the R22 and the DVD-R on the composite video lead.  Issue is GONE.  Therefore, I have determined that D* is using macrovision for their copy protection on composite outputs.  This particular stabilizer is a newer one with two stages of macrovision (made for duplication of dvds - I dont think the earlier ones used for VHS transfers will work).  Thanks for all the suggestions.



#7 OFFLINE   Volatility

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:44 PM

OK, FIGURED IT OUT.  I have several R22's stacked which basically gave me the genie several years ago.  All are controlled via UHF except one, which is controlled via IR.  The one that is controlled via IR only has two outputs being used - one composite that goes to a slingbox, and the other composite that goes to the dvd-r, and then loops to the television via composite for monitoring.   I have unhooked the sling so the only thing hooked up is the recorder.  Still experienced the issue.  On my way out of my shop I rememberred I had a SIMA stabilizer and inserted it between the R22 and the DVD-R on the composite video lead.  Issue is GONE.  Therefore, I have determined that D* is using macrovision for their copy protection on composite outputs.  This particular stabilizer is a newer one with two stages of macrovision (made for duplication of dvds - I dont think the earlier ones used for VHS transfers will work).  Thanks for all the suggestions.

They are. Good you were able to get it resolved. It is silly you would be prevented from recording stuff for your personal library it reminds me back to the days when VCR's first came out and they were making a big deal of recording stuff. Speaking on VCR's last time I tried to record a show on tape with D*, the recordings came out pixellated. So they are defintely doing something.



#8 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:23 PM

They are. Good you were able to get it resolved. It is silly you would be prevented from recording stuff for your personal library it reminds me back to the days when VCR's first came out and they were making a big deal of recording stuff. Speaking on VCR's last time I tried to record a show on tape with D*, the recordings came out pixellated. So they are defintely doing something.

I am thinking it is more the content providers requiring it (or inserting the macrovision themselves).  HBO, SHO,  AXS and DISCOVERY have all caused my dvd-r to make me feel like a criminal but not every show on those channels do it.  At least I can archive that awesome Tom Jones concert now. :grin: 



#9 OFFLINE   Volatility

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:20 AM

I am thinking it is more the content providers requiring it (or inserting the macrovision themselves). HBO, SHO, AXS and DISCOVERY have all caused my dvd-r to make me feel like a criminal but not every show on those channels do it. At least I can archive that awesome Tom Jones concert now. :grin:

Idk i just think its pointless. If a person has enough drive and passion to want to record shows on DVDs they are going to find a way. Usually their is going to be technology that helps get around other technology like SIMA stabilizer.


Edited by Volatility, 11 May 2013 - 11:50 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   mystic7

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:36 AM

Aren't you the same people who condemned me for bit torrenting music I have already owned in four different formats, and the occasional movie? Instead of getting all those copyright protection defying devices why don't you just bit torrent the tv shows? Almost all of them are available.



#11 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

OK, FIGURED IT OUT.  I have several R22's stacked which basically gave me the genie several years ago.  All are controlled via UHF except one, which is controlled via IR.  The one that is controlled via IR only has two outputs being used - one composite that goes to a slingbox, and the other composite that goes to the dvd-r, and then loops to the television via composite for monitoring.   I have unhooked the sling so the only thing hooked up is the recorder.  Still experienced the issue.  On my way out of my shop I rememberred I had a SIMA stabilizer and inserted it between the R22 and the DVD-R on the composite video lead.  Issue is GONE.  Therefore, I have determined that D* is using macrovision for their copy protection on composite outputs.  This particular stabilizer is a newer one with two stages of macrovision (made for duplication of dvds - I dont think the earlier ones used for VHS transfers will work).  Thanks for all the suggestions.

Two "composite" hookups to an R22? Or did you mean "component" for the SlingBox input?

 

Anyway, glad you got it figured out ... 

 

A perpetually ridiculous and delusional Hollywood and their copy protection schemes.   


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#12 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:10 AM

Two "composite" hookups to an R22? Or did you mean "component" for the SlingBox input?

 

Anyway, glad you got it figured out ... 

 

A perpetually ridiculous and delusional Hollywood and their copy protection schemes.   

I meant what I said.  The R22 does have a component output, yes, but it also has DUAL composite outputs.  The R22 was a heck of a box in it's time.  It was actually an HR21 but labeled and activated as an SD DVR.  If you happened to have an HD receiver on your account you would get the HD programming on the R22 AND get HD out of the HMDI port.   I have several stacked for six channel recording capability and an HR24 in my main room.  The other five sets in the house get fed with an RF mix of four security cams and a "CH4" output via RF modulator from one of the R22's which is controlled via UHF remote control.  I can get away with this because I am a bachelor !rolling When I am not watching HD in the main room, no matter what other room I walk into the same thing is on and because all the sets are Sony the one D* remote follows me from room to room.  Who needs Crestron? :righton:



#13 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

I meant what I said.  The R22 does have a component output, yes, but it also has DUAL composite outputs.  The R22 was a heck of a box in it's time.  It was actually an HR21 but labeled and activated as an SD DVR.  If you happened to have an HD receiver on your account you would get the HD programming on the R22 AND get HD out of the HMDI port.   I have several stacked for six channel recording capability and an HR24 in my main room.  The other five sets in the house get fed with an RF mix of four security cams and a "CH4" output via RF modulator from one of the R22's which is controlled via UHF remote control.  I can get away with this because I am a bachelor !rolling When I am not watching HD in the main room, no matter what other room I walk into the same thing is on and because all the sets are Sony the one D* remote follows me from room to room.  Who needs Crestron? :righton:

OK, I see, just checked;

 

Brother still has an (HD enabled) R22 as his main box, but been so long I looked behind it I'd forgotten the s-video output has a composite one next to it as well.  


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#14 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:00 PM

its dated but i love those R22's!



#15 ONLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

Therefore, I have determined that D* is using macrovision for their copy protection on composite outputs. 

That's odd.  I've been recording Game Of Thrones from an HR-21 to a DVD recorder using S-Video.  I wouldn't think that they would be using macrovision on the Composite output, but not the S-Video output.



#16 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:04 PM

Wasnt macrovision meant for any analog output?  Shouldnt matter whether its composite/s-video/or component.  I know some dont care, but why would I want to archive some crappy SD version with stereo sound?  It really defeats the whole purpose of having nice HD equipment and sound system.



#17 OFFLINE   lokar

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

You guys should switch to HD capture devices and huge hard drives already, DVDs are done. 


Edited by lokar, 13 May 2013 - 05:01 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:50 PM

You guys should switch to HD capture devices and huge hard drives already, DVDs are done. 

HDCP, that is all I have to say…


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#19 ONLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:39 AM

You guys should switch to HD capture devices and huge hard drives already, DVDs are done. 

 

That doesn't work so well in cases where the purpose of recording something is to give it to a co-worker who doesn't have access to it.



#20 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:14 PM

That doesn't work so well in cases where the purpose of recording something is to give it to a co-worker who doesn't have access to it.

Thats actually one of the valid reasons to have copy protection in the 1st place.






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