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DirecTV going back to OTA for locals?


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141 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:36 PM

The CSRs have enough problems with current equipment.  Can you imagine what kind pf questions they would need to answer if this ever came back?


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#27 OFFLINE   billsharpe

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

I signed up for DirecTV to get both local channels and "cable" channels that I could easily record. The OTA tuner in my HR20-700 let me record a number of local channels that DirecTV didn't carry.

 

I also get an excellent picture OTA directly on my two HD sets, so that I can watch programs even when I'm recording two other programs. There are 136 OTA channels available in the Los Angeles area.


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#28 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:28 AM

How about a 'module' that is on the roof antenna that puts a selected OTA onto a SWiM channel as a SWiM channel??

 

 

That's a really interesting idea. Having a way to integrate the OTA signal into a SWM channel would be a big win. Once a tuner has pulled in the signal it is just MPEG2, which Directv receivers can already handle, and SWM LNBs/multiswitches are already performing frequency shifting. Theoretically at least a next generation SWM that included an ATSC tuner could shift an OTA signal on a SWM channel in a manner that could be made to work with existing receivers.

 

There's still the bigger problem of where does the OTA signal come from, but they've got that problem no matter what. Integrating it with SWM would at least avoid the need for an OTA tuner in the receivers, and if it were somehow done in a way that was compatible with all existing SWM capable receivers it would be a huge win for Directv. They'd only need to replace the SWM LNB/multiswitch with a new one and route the OTA signal into it.

 

As someone who has an OTA antenna and still has 17 H20s in service due to the need for that tuner, if I was able to replace my SWM-16s with a new model that would take an OTA input and pass it through via SWM, I'd jump at the chance. I've got 7 H24/AM21 pairs, I'd love to be able to ditch all the AM21s without losing my locals, that would be awesome!

 

Thinking of stuff like this makes me even more curious what Directv is planning/considering. If all they end up doing is subsidizing people to install OTA antennas and giving them free AM21s when Directv has a fight with a local station in their DMA, I'll be mightily disappointed :sure:


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#29 OFFLINE   NR4P

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

I've been suggesting the increased support of OTA for at least 2 years here at dbstalk.   To help cutback on Directv retransmission fees as they cite and to solve rain fade problems for those that have it bad, like I do in the SE USA.  I know many folks who have left Directv over rain fade, this will solve some that too.  

 

I look forward to this to replace 1 or more of my 4 AM21's someday.



#30 OFFLINE   n3vino

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:58 AM

I think that it would be great if it would lower our bills and we wouldn't have to worry about greedy negotiations with broadcasters that have a lot of stations through out the U.S.  However, the D* receivers would have to act as tuners.  In my case, only one of my four TV's has a tuner at this time.  Another big downside, is that I have a narrow window of LOS from the transmitters and there are a lot of trees in the way.  Most of the transmitters are 26 miles away to the S.E. 


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#31 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

I've been suggesting the increased support of OTA for at least 2 years here at dbstalk.   To help cutback on Directv retransmission fees as they cite and to solve rain fade problems for those that have it bad, like I do in the SE USA.  I know many folks who have left Directv over rain fade, this will solve some that too.  
 
I look forward to this to replace 1 or more of my 4 AM21's someday.


I have no problem with OTA integration. It is a plus as far as I'm concerned. But I don't get the logic that it helps cutback on retrans fees. Can you explain why you think it does? Other than dumping retrans, that is.
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#32 OFFLINE   machavez00

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

If I recall correctly, the ability to to combine OTA and DBS over the same COAX was touted when SWiM was introduced.  



#33 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:52 AM

I have no problem with OTA integration. It is a plus as far as I'm concerned. But I don't get the logic that it helps cutback on retrans fees. Can you explain why you think it does? Other than dumping retrans, that is.

 

 

Because fewer customers would be affected/angry if a local station made Directv quit carrying them for a while during negotiations, Directv would be able to hold out longer and have a better chance of negotiating a lower rate.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#34 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

If I recall correctly, the ability to to combine OTA and DBS over the same COAX was touted when SWiM was introduced.  

 

 

It made diplexing possible again, until they introduced DECA. Since Directv chose its own frequencies instead of using the standard MoCA ones that conflicted with satellite frequencies, I wonder why they didn't choose a low frequency range to fit it into the gap between VHF and UHF frequencies? Then you have still diplexed OTA, albeit with a slightly more complex diplexer.


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#35 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:22 PM

I think that it would be great if it would lower our bills and we wouldn't have to worry about greedy negotiations with broadcasters that have a lot of stations through out the U.S.  However, the D* receivers would have to act as tuners.  In my case, only one of my four TV's has a tuner at this time.  Another big downside, is that I have a narrow window of LOS from the transmitters and there are a lot of trees in the way.  Most of the transmitters are 26 miles away to the S.E. 

 

It seems pretty unlikely Directv would try to promote a solution that relied on the tuner in your TV. It wouldn't allow for you to select the channel in the guide like you can now, and more importantly, wouldn't allow you to record it. Few would be interested in installing Directv's OTA solution, even as a backup in case of rain fade or negotiations gone wrong, if there was no way to record. It would look pretty lame compared to Dish's ads touting their ability to record all four broadcast networks at once.

 

Either the tuner would return to the receivers, or we'd see the more interesting solution of having having the SWM LNB/multiswitch able to provide OTA over a SWM channel.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#36 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:36 PM

I wonder why they didn't choose a low frequency range to fit it into the gap between VHF and UHF frequencies? Then you have still diplexed OTA, albeit with a slightly more complex diplexer.

Diplexing isn't for OTA only, it's also used for cable and the frequencies between VHF and UHF are used by cable channels 23-64.
Basically it's like this:
VHF Lo (2-6)
FM Radio 88.1-108.0 (Cable channels 95-97)
Cable channels 98-99 and 14-22
VHF Hi (7-13)
Cable Channels 23-64
UHF 14-43 (2 MHz offset from cable channels 65-94)
UHF 44-69 (2 MHz offset from cable channels 100-125)
Former UHF 70-83 (2 MHz offset from cable channels 126-139)
Cable channels 140-158

Since most analog TVs only go up to 125 after they discontinued use of UHF 70-83, cable channels 126-158 are used for digital cable only, although once you reach 850 MHz (channel 133) you are beyond the cutoff of most diplexers.

Edited by KyL416, 18 May 2013 - 12:40 PM.


#37 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:48 PM

There are probably 100 people who want to have both satellite and OTA for every one who wants to have both satellite and cable. Just because a solution only worked for diplexing OTA and not for diplexing cable doesn't mean it wouldn't have been worthwhile for them to do. They could have saved many people from having to run additional coax for OTA. The few who want both satellite and cable would be no worse off than they are today.

 

Perhaps there were other considerations for why they chose the frequency range they did for DECA that precluded them being able to fit in between VHF and UHF.


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#38 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

Because fewer customers would be affected/angry if a local station made Directv quit carrying them for a while during negotiations, Directv would be able to hold out longer and have a better chance of negotiating a lower rate.


Okay but what is the value of that? The vast, vast majority of deals get done without a second of down time. Are you saying directv would be more willing to tick off the non OTA customers just to make a harder bargain? I'm not seeing it.
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#39 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:44 PM

Okay but what is the value of that? The vast, vast majority of deals get done without a second of down time. Are you saying directv would be more willing to tick off the non OTA customers just to make a harder bargain? I'm not seeing it.

 

 

Well, that's what this whole thread is about. Directv appears to be dropping hints that they might do just that, because the local stations keep increasing their demands every time around and that's not sustainable, particularly for something which is FREE to those who have an antenna!


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#40 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Well, that's what this whole thread is about. Directv appears to be dropping hints that they might do just that, because the local stations keep increasing their demands every time around and that's not sustainable, particularly for something which is FREE to those who have an antenna!


And I'm saying it makes no sense. It is a bluff and won't work.
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#41 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 06:42 PM

In regards to retransmission fees paid by DirecTV to the locals.

 

IMO, it should be the other way around.  The locals should pay DirecTV to have there programming carried by DirecTV.

 

Afterall, this would increase the number of viewers to their stations.


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#42 OFFLINE   alnielsen

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:03 PM

There is one big reason to have an OTA antenna over what D* offers, subchannels and class A stations. D* dosen't offer all the subchannels and class A stations aren't must carry. Around here, we have lots of both are missing.


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#43 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:49 PM

There is one big reason to have an OTA antenna over what D* offers, subchannels and class A stations. D* dosen't offer all the subchannels and class A stations aren't must carry. Around here, we have lots of both are missing.


That's why an OTA antenna is a good supplement but it doesn't work even for primaries for a large number of customers. I get sub channels OTA but lost main channels OTA with the digital transition.
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#44 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:51 PM

Seems like Aero Tv may be having more impact than first thought.  Cheaper than paying the high Retrans. fees netword demand.

 

 

In my opinion, nothing to do with Aero.  This has to do with Retrans fees.


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#45 OFFLINE   n3vino

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:16 AM

Well, that's what this whole thread is about. Directv appears to be dropping hints that they might do just that, because the local stations keep increasing their demands every time around and that's not sustainable, particularly for something which is FREE to those who have an antenna!

That's especially true with broadcasters, such as Sinclair Broadcasting, that own stations all over the U.S., and in some cities, they own multiple stations.  Here in S.A., they own the Fox and NBC affiliates.  When broadcasters negotiate, they pretty much have D* and subscribers all over the U.S. by they yang yang, as they negotiate for all the stations they own at the same time. 


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#46 OFFLINE   sliderbob

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:45 AM

I'd be in favor of this IF we could get the channels on the 390's.



#47 OFFLINE   inhd40

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

Sounds great to me.  I would not be able to use a dish mount but if I could tie in my mast to the genie and still DVR locals and maybe save a few bucks, why not?  Not everyone would be able to do it but probably 80-90 percent could.  That is another question, what about current equipment that is not OTA compatible?  Would there be some kind of converter available?



#48 OFFLINE   netraa

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

It's going to take a 2 step approach for this.

 

1. certify the technicians to do an off air signal test with the appropriate equipment.

 

2. if they have acceptable levels, they get an off air and are good to go.  If not, they get the distant networks turned on by default.

 

that alone will kill 90% of the complaints about stopping a retrans for a local station.  



#49 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:33 AM

Would the local channels allow for this, would they allow for their guide data to be carried over D* satellites?

Sounds like a good idea, but I just don't see it happening. Like others have said already, too many negative variables would be in affect.

Edited by TheRatPatrol, 19 May 2013 - 09:33 AM.


#50 ONLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

In regards to retransmission fees paid by DirecTV to the locals.

 

IMO, it should be the other way around.  The locals should pay DirecTV to have there programming carried by DirecTV.

 

Afterall, this would increase the number of viewers to their stations.

 

I've always wondered about that, too.  Seems kinda backasswards to me.  

 

Rich






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