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New broadcast TV "movies" channel


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40 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.

Boy ... Movies! NY picture is window-boxed (on HDTV's) and LA's here is 16:9 into 4:3 anamorphic not accounting for how all the other markets are fairing. Now throw in the scheduling inaccuracies on their web-site and we are off to a really great start with Movies!. :sure:   


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#27 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

WAGA here in Atlanta appears to be carrying Movies! in 4:3 widescreen.  Checked the picture through the TV, Tivo, & DirecTV unit and they all look pretty good!

 

DId anyone happen to catch the disclaimer during the info screen, "This movie has been formatted to fit in more commercials"   One has to appreciate such honesty!


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#28 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:31 PM

It may be a little confusing, because even if FOX owns a station in your market (and WWOR is owned by FOX) they own more than one station (duopoly)in a number of markets, so it may not always be the FOX station that carries the sub. WWOR (Secacus NJ) is probably a MyNet station on 9, while WNYW is I think the FOX station in that market (NYC) on 5. So in a market such as that, Movies! might be on one or the other.

 

Also, the channel number might be from one or the other. For instance, FOX 10 in Phoenix provides a sub carried on 45 (the MyNet station in that market) that is a SD duplicate of 10, simply because the coverage on 45 is better. It is a sub of 45, but shows as 10.2. So the primary channel number is not married to the channel, as we might expect. That same MyNet channel carries Movies! on 45.2, so one channel can also have two ".2" designations.


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#29 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.

Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV.

 

Yuck...

 

After emailing an official for the channel, a "Patrick O'Brian," Digital Director of Fox TV about the picture formatting problem for Movies! I described earlier. His response was;

 

 

Hi Hollis,

Thanks for your email. There were some configuration changes required.  The new Movies! Channel is a 4:3 SD channel and content will be 4:3 center cut with the occasional 16:9 content letterboxed.  This is because there isn’t enough room on the allotted bandwidth to run another HD stream.  The “squeeze” you were referring to shouldn’t happen again.

 

Thanks for the email!

Patrick

 

 

Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.

 

But, oh well....


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#30 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV [....] Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.


Agree. Would be nice if they could emulate standard DVDs that somehow manage to fill a 16:9 screen with SD content.
/steve

#31 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

21st Century Fox (not capitalized) -- see the NewsCorp press release, for example. Note that the only thing they capitalize as FOX in that press release is the name of the broadcast network; they don't even capitalize it in "Fox Sports" and "Fox News Channel."

 

Well, thanks for splitting hairs that do not need to be split, but when major television networks, and even most obscure cable networks, are listed by their identity (ABC, CBS, TNT, etc.) they are always capitalized. Drive by nearly any FOX owned and operated station and the logo on the outside says "FOX". I think I'll stick with the way its always been done historically, thankyouverymuch.


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#32 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV.

 

Yuck...

 

After emailing an official for the channel, a "Patrick O'Brian," Digital Director of Fox TV about the picture formatting problem for Movies! I described earlier. His response was;

 

 

Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.

 

But, oh well....

 

I think what Mr O'Brian might have been referring to is the Active Format Descriptor metadata, which is in-program information that can dynamically tell your TV when to pillar-box (if the TV is 16:9) a 4:3 program or fill the screen with a 16:9 program while allowing older 4:3 TVs (pre-2006) that do not respond to AFD to fill the screen for 4:3 or letterbox 16:9.

 

While it is not a perfect solution, it solves a lot of "round peg/square hole" issues with various formats delivered to various TVs of various aspect ratios, and allows cable companies to automatically centercut for SD when necessary or letterbox for SD when necessary.

 

Of course if the Engineers do not program that properly, weird things can happen. In the case of Movies!, there may have been an initial cockpit error with AFD.


Edited by TomCat, 29 May 2013 - 11:58 AM.

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#33 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:17 AM

Not sure when it happened, but I'm happy to report that Movies! guide data finally showed up, here in the NYC suburbs.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Movies!.jpg
  • Movies Info.jpg

/steve

#34 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

Thanks, guys.
 
OT, but I wish everyone one would list their general location in their personal profile.


I feel certain that my location was in my profile before the software change. I noticed it was missing and had to go to my profile and enter the information once again. This might be why most people's location is not listed.
It is helpful when a person talks about programming, loss of signal, etc.

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#35 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:55 PM

Not sure when it happened, but I'm happy to report that Movies! guide data finally showed up, here in the NYC suburbs.

 

Lucky you!   still showing  'Regular Programming' here in Atlanta


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#36 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

Lucky you!   still showing  'Regular Programming' here in Atlanta

 

Are you getting it from WAGA? If so, the Rabbit Ears data below looks comparable to the NYC data, so maybe you're just a guide update or two away from seeing the correct show info? Fingers-crossed.

Attached Thumbnails

  • WAGA Movies!.jpg

/steve

#37 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

Are you getting it from WAGA? If so, the Rabbit Ears data below looks comparable to the NYC data, so maybe you're just a guide update or two away from seeing the correct show info? Fingers-crossed.

 

While I would like to see it!  I'm not counting on it!  We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.


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#38 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

While I would like to see it!  I'm not counting on it!  We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.

 

Wow, that's a shame. I record Antenna TV all the time here. I get a kick out seeing the old Burns & Allen and Jack Benny shows I used to watch as a kid.


/steve

#39 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

I think what Mr O'Brian might have been referring to is the Active Format Descriptor metadata, which is in-program information that can dynamically tell your TV when to pillar-box (if the TV is 16:9) a 4:3 program or fill the screen with a 16:9 program while allowing older 4:3 TVs (pre-2006) that do not respond to AFD to fill the screen for 4:3 or letterbox 16:9.

While it is not a perfect solution, it solves a lot of "round peg/square hole" issues with various formats delivered to various TVs of various aspect ratios, and allows cable companies to automatically centercut for SD when necessary or letterbox for SD when necessary.

Of course if the Engineers do not program that properly, weird things can happen. In the case of Movies!, there may have been an initial cockpit error with AFD.

Thanks for the suggestion TomCat;

If I'm reading you correctly you're saying maybe that Movies! is sending in 16:9 SD with AFD? But if so I'm definitely not receiving that OTA on 13-3 here in the L.A. market right now. Its definitely a 4:3 frame signal with either center-cut or a 16:9 or greater letter-box (mainly during movies) inside the 4:3 frame.

 

Perhaps the satellite (or whatever distribution) is coming into Fox 11 as 16:9 SD with AFD and their AFD enabled conversion equipment converting it over to 4:3 SD with center-cut or letter-box for local OTA broadcast?

 

Addendum: I called KTTV engineering early last week on the anamorphic squeeze issue, and at the time the tech. said they were merely passing the signal on to OTA as they receive it from the Movies! network without any format alterations, but who knows?


Edited by HoTat2, 01 June 2013 - 02:09 PM.

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#40 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

I think that probably is the case. FOX and others rarely manipulate AFD themselves. What changes is what the AFD code is on a per-program basis, and that is baked into the metadata, so is determined at origination and really not ever at the station forwarding that info, although they do have that technology.

 

We are seeing reports of multiple aspect ratios, possibly anamorphia, etc., from various parts of the country, but that is usually due to how folks have their TVs set (which they may not even be aware of). AFD only works between AFD-aware equipment in the delivery chain and only on AFD-aware TVs. Since it was not implemented until 2006, sets older than this will definitely not respond to it, and sets from 2007 or 2008 or even later may not either. Sending in anamorphic is never done, and sending in weird stretched modes hasn't been done since TBS and TNT finally wised up a few years ago.

 

This I know for sure: there is but one delivery option on the backhaul sat and that is 4:3. If it is filling your 16:9 screen it is either doing that anamorphically (stretching the image) or because the AFD code in that program is blowing up what would otherwise be a 16:9 postage stamp to fill the screen. If it is filling your 4:3 screen it is due to the natural 4:3 image. If it is letterboxing on your 4:3 screen that is because they are sending a full 16:9 image for that particular movie to HD sets with AFD. I doubt they are center-cutting at all, but maybe.

 

As for guide info, this is a big launch, meaning all 22 FOX O&O markets and possibly some other markets are getting it all at the same time, and that may be overwhelming Tribune or whoever handles the guide info, and they are unable to keep up. Summertime vacations and a holiday weekend does not help. They'll get there.


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#41 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:07 PM

While I would like to see it!  I'm not counting on it!  We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.

Yes, and I'm afraid you have good reason not to count on it too ...;

 

Unless Movies! (or any other new main or secondary DTV sub-channel) takes over an already existing sub-channel "slot" in DIRECTV's off-air database before they stopped updating it, you will almost certainly never see any guide data appear for it. For instance I think WNYW 5-2 now has guide data since it previously existed in the database simulcasting WWOR (MyN) in SD. So the "slot" was already in the OTA database before DIRECTV stopped updating it

 

For instance KTLA 5-2 in LA once was This TV a few years ago and recorded in the database as such, before its slot was taken over latter by Antenna TV and KTLA opened up a new sub-channel for This TV on 5-3. Then the guide data switched over shortly on 5-2 for Antenna TV programming, but 5-3 now has none since 5-3 is not in the database.

 

A similar thing happened when Bounce TV took over an already existing slot at KCOP 13-2. and the guide data shortly changed accordingly for its program schedule.    

 

Therefore if Movies! launched on a new sub-channel not already in the database like here in the LA market on KCOP 13-3, don't look for any guide data to be added. Just "Regular Schedule." on the HR34/44, which while certainly better than not getting it at all on the older H/HR2X boxes, still a PITA nevertheless when searching or channel surfing for interesting shows.     


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