Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

New broadcast TV "movies" channel


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   trainman

trainman

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,448 posts
  • LocationSherman Oaks, CA
Joined: Jan 09, 2008

Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:24 PM

NewsCorp er, 21st Century FOX (the new name).


21st Century Fox (not capitalized) -- see the NewsCorp press release, for example. Note that the only thing they capitalize as FOX in that press release is the name of the broadcast network; they don't even capitalize it in "Fox Sports" and "Fox News Channel."
trainman is Jim Ellwanger

HR34-700 | Linksys WGA-600N | Samsung 46" LCD | Slimline-5 dish

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,264 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:38 PM

Fox affiliated television stations in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Washington, DC are now identifying their X.2 subchannels as "movies". Here in Washington, DC, they put up color bars last night, and this morning, they are showing some syndicated trash called the" Trisha" show., with a distracting lower caption bar that reads

WDCA 20 - MOVIES - Washington, DC (my 20 logo)

Does anyone know where I might find program listings and schedules for this channel?


Slight correction. Channel 20 may be run by fox but it is not the DC fox affiliate. That would be 5.

It looks like the channels in question are owned or operated by Fox. Not necessarily Fox affiliates.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#23 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

AntAltMike

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 2,701 posts
  • LocationCollege Park MD (just outside Wash, DC)
Joined: Nov 20, 2004

Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:12 PM

The Movies! programming came on a little late this morning and the mid day movies were running half an hour ahead of schedule, but at this moment WDCA 20.2 appears to be showing The Hot Rock. while their website says that are showing The Man Who Wouldn.t Die, which is fine  with me, since i haven't seen The Hot Roxk since I saw it first run back around 1970


Edited by AntAltMike, 27 May 2013 - 03:13 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,907 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

Movies! appeared here in the LA market at midnight this morning showing promos on KCOP 13-3 (MyN TV affiliate) which is owned by Fox who's outlet is KTTV-11 (an O&O).

 

It's actually in 480i widescreen (16:9) in a sense, as its a 16:9 image anamorphically squeezed into a 4:3 frame which makes everything tall and skinny. So you have to annoyingly stretch it out to widescreen via the DIRECTV receiver or TV set format controls for proper display

 

Go figure ...   


Edited by HoTat2, 27 May 2013 - 03:39 PM.

DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#25 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,434 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:24 PM

It's actually in 480i widescreen (16:9) in a sense, as its a 16:9 image anamorphically squeezed into a 4:3 frame which makes everything tall and skinny. So you have to annoyingly stretch it out to widescreen via the DIRECTV receiver or TV set format controls for proper display

 

Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.


/steve

#26 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,907 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.

Boy ... Movies! NY picture is window-boxed (on HDTV's) and LA's here is 16:9 into 4:3 anamorphic not accounting for how all the other markets are fairing. Now throw in the scheduling inaccuracies on their web-site and we are off to a really great start with Movies!. :sure:   


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#27 OFFLINE   fluffybear

fluffybear

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,115 posts
  • LocationPeachtree City, GA.
Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

WAGA here in Atlanta appears to be carrying Movies! in 4:3 widescreen.  Checked the picture through the TV, Tivo, & DirecTV unit and they all look pretty good!

 

DId anyone happen to catch the disclaimer during the info screen, "This movie has been formatted to fit in more commercials"   One has to appreciate such honesty!


Proud DirecTV customer since July, 1994

My Q3 2014 Set-Up


#28 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,488 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:31 PM

It may be a little confusing, because even if FOX owns a station in your market (and WWOR is owned by FOX) they own more than one station (duopoly)in a number of markets, so it may not always be the FOX station that carries the sub. WWOR (Secacus NJ) is probably a MyNet station on 9, while WNYW is I think the FOX station in that market (NYC) on 5. So in a market such as that, Movies! might be on one or the other.

 

Also, the channel number might be from one or the other. For instance, FOX 10 in Phoenix provides a sub carried on 45 (the MyNet station in that market) that is a SD duplicate of 10, simply because the coverage on 45 is better. It is a sub of 45, but shows as 10.2. So the primary channel number is not married to the channel, as we might expect. That same MyNet channel carries Movies! on 45.2, so one channel can also have two ".2" designations.


It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#29 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,907 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:52 PM

Interesting. Here in NY it's letterboxed SD, so with my TV set to "full", both DirecTV pillar box and crop are anamorphically correct, with crop filling the 16:9 screen. Stretch or native make everything short and wide.

Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV.

 

Yuck...

 

After emailing an official for the channel, a "Patrick O'Brian," Digital Director of Fox TV about the picture formatting problem for Movies! I described earlier. His response was;

 

 

Hi Hollis,

Thanks for your email. There were some configuration changes required.  The new Movies! Channel is a 4:3 SD channel and content will be 4:3 center cut with the occasional 16:9 content letterboxed.  This is because there isn’t enough room on the allotted bandwidth to run another HD stream.  The “squeeze” you were referring to shouldn’t happen again.

 

Thanks for the email!

Patrick

 

 

Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.

 

But, oh well....


DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#30 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,434 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:11 AM

Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV [....] Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.


Agree. Would be nice if they could emulate standard DVDs that somehow manage to fill a 16:9 screen with SD content.
/steve

#31 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,488 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

21st Century Fox (not capitalized) -- see the NewsCorp press release, for example. Note that the only thing they capitalize as FOX in that press release is the name of the broadcast network; they don't even capitalize it in "Fox Sports" and "Fox News Channel."

 

Well, thanks for splitting hairs that do not need to be split, but when major television networks, and even most obscure cable networks, are listed by their identity (ABC, CBS, TNT, etc.) they are always capitalized. Drive by nearly any FOX owned and operated station and the logo on the outside says "FOX". I think I'll stick with the way its always been done historically, thankyouverymuch.


It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#32 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,488 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

Its actually that here in LA as well now. Letter-box SD, making for a window-box image on an HDTV.

 

Yuck...

 

After emailing an official for the channel, a "Patrick O'Brian," Digital Director of Fox TV about the picture formatting problem for Movies! I described earlier. His response was;

 

 

Of course I never asked nor expect an HD stream for the Movies! sub-channel, just a properly formatted 480i widescreen picture.

 

But, oh well....

 

I think what Mr O'Brian might have been referring to is the Active Format Descriptor metadata, which is in-program information that can dynamically tell your TV when to pillar-box (if the TV is 16:9) a 4:3 program or fill the screen with a 16:9 program while allowing older 4:3 TVs (pre-2006) that do not respond to AFD to fill the screen for 4:3 or letterbox 16:9.

 

While it is not a perfect solution, it solves a lot of "round peg/square hole" issues with various formats delivered to various TVs of various aspect ratios, and allows cable companies to automatically centercut for SD when necessary or letterbox for SD when necessary.

 

Of course if the Engineers do not program that properly, weird things can happen. In the case of Movies!, there may have been an initial cockpit error with AFD.


Edited by TomCat, 29 May 2013 - 11:58 AM.

It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#33 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,434 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:17 AM

Not sure when it happened, but I'm happy to report that Movies! guide data finally showed up, here in the NYC suburbs.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Movies!.jpg
  • Movies Info.jpg

/steve

#34 OFFLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,172 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

Thanks, guys.
 
OT, but I wish everyone one would list their general location in their personal profile.


I feel certain that my location was in my profile before the software change. I noticed it was missing and had to go to my profile and enter the information once again. This might be why most people's location is not listed.
It is helpful when a person talks about programming, loss of signal, etc.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#35 OFFLINE   fluffybear

fluffybear

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,115 posts
  • LocationPeachtree City, GA.
Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:55 PM

Not sure when it happened, but I'm happy to report that Movies! guide data finally showed up, here in the NYC suburbs.

 

Lucky you!   still showing  'Regular Programming' here in Atlanta


Proud DirecTV customer since July, 1994

My Q3 2014 Set-Up


#36 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,434 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

Lucky you!   still showing  'Regular Programming' here in Atlanta

 

Are you getting it from WAGA? If so, the Rabbit Ears data below looks comparable to the NYC data, so maybe you're just a guide update or two away from seeing the correct show info? Fingers-crossed.

Attached Thumbnails

  • WAGA Movies!.jpg

/steve

#37 OFFLINE   fluffybear

fluffybear

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 7,115 posts
  • LocationPeachtree City, GA.
Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

Are you getting it from WAGA? If so, the Rabbit Ears data below looks comparable to the NYC data, so maybe you're just a guide update or two away from seeing the correct show info? Fingers-crossed.

 

While I would like to see it!  I'm not counting on it!  We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.


Proud DirecTV customer since July, 1994

My Q3 2014 Set-Up


#38 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,434 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

While I would like to see it!  I'm not counting on it!  We still do not have guide data for Antenna TV 36-3 and they have been up and running for well over a year.

 

Wow, that's a shame. I record Antenna TV all the time here. I get a kick out seeing the old Burns & Allen and Jack Benny shows I used to watch as a kid.


/steve

#39 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,907 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

I think what Mr O'Brian might have been referring to is the Active Format Descriptor metadata, which is in-program information that can dynamically tell your TV when to pillar-box (if the TV is 16:9) a 4:3 program or fill the screen with a 16:9 program while allowing older 4:3 TVs (pre-2006) that do not respond to AFD to fill the screen for 4:3 or letterbox 16:9.

While it is not a perfect solution, it solves a lot of "round peg/square hole" issues with various formats delivered to various TVs of various aspect ratios, and allows cable companies to automatically centercut for SD when necessary or letterbox for SD when necessary.

Of course if the Engineers do not program that properly, weird things can happen. In the case of Movies!, there may have been an initial cockpit error with AFD.

Thanks for the suggestion TomCat;

If I'm reading you correctly you're saying maybe that Movies! is sending in 16:9 SD with AFD? But if so I'm definitely not receiving that OTA on 13-3 here in the L.A. market right now. Its definitely a 4:3 frame signal with either center-cut or a 16:9 or greater letter-box (mainly during movies) inside the 4:3 frame.

 

Perhaps the satellite (or whatever distribution) is coming into Fox 11 as 16:9 SD with AFD and their AFD enabled conversion equipment converting it over to 4:3 SD with center-cut or letter-box for local OTA broadcast?

 

Addendum: I called KTTV engineering early last week on the anamorphic squeeze issue, and at the time the tech. said they were merely passing the signal on to OTA as they receive it from the Movies! network without any format alterations, but who knows?


Edited by HoTat2, 01 June 2013 - 02:09 PM.

DIRECTV sub. since Sep. of '95


#40 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,488 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

I think that probably is the case. FOX and others rarely manipulate AFD themselves. What changes is what the AFD code is on a per-program basis, and that is baked into the metadata, so is determined at origination and really not ever at the station forwarding that info, although they do have that technology.

 

We are seeing reports of multiple aspect ratios, possibly anamorphia, etc., from various parts of the country, but that is usually due to how folks have their TVs set (which they may not even be aware of). AFD only works between AFD-aware equipment in the delivery chain and only on AFD-aware TVs. Since it was not implemented until 2006, sets older than this will definitely not respond to it, and sets from 2007 or 2008 or even later may not either. Sending in anamorphic is never done, and sending in weird stretched modes hasn't been done since TBS and TNT finally wised up a few years ago.

 

This I know for sure: there is but one delivery option on the backhaul sat and that is 4:3. If it is filling your 16:9 screen it is either doing that anamorphically (stretching the image) or because the AFD code in that program is blowing up what would otherwise be a 16:9 postage stamp to fill the screen. If it is filling your 4:3 screen it is due to the natural 4:3 image. If it is letterboxing on your 4:3 screen that is because they are sending a full 16:9 image for that particular movie to HD sets with AFD. I doubt they are center-cutting at all, but maybe.

 

As for guide info, this is a big launch, meaning all 22 FOX O&O markets and possibly some other markets are getting it all at the same time, and that may be overwhelming Tribune or whoever handles the guide info, and they are unable to keep up. Summertime vacations and a holiday weekend does not help. They'll get there.


It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.




spam firewall