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Repossessing a late model car


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#1 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:06 PM

An acquaintance of mine told me about a week ago that he was behind on his monthly car payments and that the lender was threatening to repossess it.  He said he was not overly concerned because it is registered at his previous address, about a thousand miles away, and that he hasn't updated his driver's license, which was also issued there.

 

I haven't seen his car parked in his driveway for three days now, and when I drove out early this afternoon, I saw him walking in the direction of his residence, which was about a mile or more away, with no more convenient public transportation drop off point.  Guess what I just figured out?

 

His car is a late model Ford 500, maybe two or three years old, at the most.  Might that model car have GPS or Lojack as standard equipment?  One other way that a repo man might have a line on where he lives is that his car was involved in a collision (not his fault) that took a few return trips to the body shop (front end damage: always a potential challenge to restore to like-new precision) and since car lenders mandate collision insurance over the life of the loan, it could be that the insurance claim details, including his local address, were forwarded to the lender.  The insurance company also paid for his replacement car rentals, so Enterprise might even have entered his local address in their invoice.


Edited by AntAltMike, 31 May 2013 - 03:22 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   BattleScott

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:14 PM

An aquaintance of mine told me about a week ago that he was behind on his monthly car payments and that the lender was threatening to repossess it.  He said he was not overly concerned because it is registered at his previous address, about a thousand miles away, and that he hasn't updated his driver's license, which was also issued there.

 

I haven't seen his car parked in his driveway for three days now, and when I drove out early this afternoon, I saw him walking in the direction of his residence, which was about a mile or more away, with no more convenient public transportation drop off point.  Guess what I just figured out?

 

His car is a late model Ford 500, maybe two or three years old, at the most.  Might that model car have GPS or Lojack as standard equipment?  One other way that a repo man might have a line on where he lives is that his car was involved in a colission (not his fault) that took a few return trips to the body shop (front end damage: always a potential challenge to restore to like-new precision) and since car lenders mandate collission insurance over the life of the loan, it could be that the insurance claim details, including his local address, were forwarded to the lender.  The insurance company also paid for his replacement car rentals, so Enterprise might even have entered his local address in their invoice

 

I would suspect that the lender was able to track down his new address easy enough. Unless he completely went off the grid and didn't establish any type of presence in the new location (bank account, utilities, credit cards etc.), it would be pretty easy for them to track down his new address.

 

Lojack is also another very good possibility.


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#3 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:15 PM

Busted !



#4 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

I would suspect that the lender was able to track down his new address easy enough. Unless he completely went off the grid and didn't establish any type of presence in the new location (bank account, utilities, credit cards etc.), it would be pretty easy for them to track down his new address.

 

Lojack is also another very good possibility.

 

l worked debt collection back in college and was amazed at how easy it was to locate someone.  Something has simple as filing a 'change of address' or your income taxes.  Also surprising was how quick former neighbors, landlords, co-workers, etc.  would sell you out. 


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#5 OFFLINE   klang

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:36 PM

Wouldn't a credit check show your current address as well?



#6 ONLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 03:49 PM

There are tracking systems, but LoJack isn't one that will help debt collectors.  Receivers are only available to law enforcement and the transmitter only works after the VIN is entered by police as stolen.

 

That is, unless they've begun to offer a skip tracers version.


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#7 OFFLINE   Mark Holtz

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:50 PM

A repossession will remain on your credit history for seven years from the delinquency date of the first missed payment leading up to the status of repossession. (Source: http://www.experian....entire-time.html). Also see this article from the FTC


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#8 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:59 PM

If it were as easy as not updating the registration address or license, a lot more people would probably try that. They have GPS systems that are sold specifically to car dealers.They also can do starter interrupt. A few years ago, an employee had been laid off from a dealer and disabled over 100 cars.

 

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#9 OFFLINE   Mark Holtz

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 01:54 AM

Your buddy just joined the ranks of high-risk borrowers which means that unless he pays cash on the spot, he'll pay higher interest rates, plus the lender may insist on a tracking device or a disablement device during the term of the loan. See GPS devices help dealerships keep an eye on vehiclesand Car Payment Or Else: Engine Shut Off Systems.


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#10 OFFLINE   SamC

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 04:41 AM

Your friend is very lucky they only repoed the car.  His actions constitute Grand Theft-Auto.  He could just as easily been an episode of COPS as one of Operacion Repo.



#11 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:38 AM

He said he was not overly concerned because it is registered at his previous address, about a thousand miles away, and that he hasn't updated his driver's license, which was also issued there.

 

Where I live that could be a violation of state law.  One must change their address within 30 days of moving.


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#12 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

Your friend is very lucky they only repoed the car. His actions constitute Grand Theft-Auto. He could just as easily been an episode of COPS as one of Operacion Repo.

It's a civil issue. It is not Auto Theft. As mentioned in the next post, the only crime is that his license and registration were not updated.

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#13 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:43 AM

Where I live that could be a violation of state law.  One must change their address within 30 days of moving.

 

We have that too in NJ.  You'd be amazed at how many cars are registered in PA and never seem to get caught.   

 

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#14 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:33 AM

Where I live that could be a violation of state law.  One must change their address within 30 days of moving.

I remember that when I first moved to Indiana. Originally the idea was I was going to not change my license and registration until they were about to expire in NY. I mean I figured that hey I had paid for it and had something like a year on them why would I change it? well anyway on day 29 or something like that I did update it and got my Indiana plates and license. I was also a little surprised that they insisted on confiscating my old NY license. In NY they always let you keep your old licenses and I had kept them around as kind of retrospective of my driving life, plus they were always good for a laugh to pull them out and show people all my bad driver photos over the years. So the fact that I wasn't going to have my last NY license for my collection made my first trip to the Indiana BMV (Not DMV as in NY) even that much more special. I've often wondered about the car in my company parking lot that's had an Alaskan license plate for years, I'm pretty sure they don't commute!




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#15 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

An Active Duty member of our armed forces can register their vehicles in either their Home of record state or their current state. Same goes for driver's license. However, this doesnot apply to the other family members. You can also designate whatever state as your home of record (this can have income tax implications as well as where your household goods the government will move them to when you leave active duty ).

 

At least that was the law while I was on Active duty. (1984-1995) It may have changed since then.


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#16 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:01 AM

It appears that's how they got him.  or how he got himself.  I gave him a ride a couple of days ago and I asked him what the terms were for getting his car back, and he said he didn't bother to look into it because he owed about $6,000 but the car was only "worth" about $2,000.  It turns out that the car was a little older than I had guessed, and its trade in value is about $4,500 and its average dealer resale price about $6,500 to $6,800, but realistically, it isn't worth that much to him, even if he could come up with the money, which he can't, which is why he is still walking.

 

I asked him how they found the car.  He said they didn't.  He said the car developed an ignition problem so he had it towed to the dealer but the dealer then said they wouldn't work on the car or release it until he got caught up on the payments.  He said that he had had that electrical problem before and that anyone could fix it but it was just his bad luck that he brought it to a dealer.  I believe his conclusions are in error, but since he was resigned to not getting the car back, I didn't attempt to elucidate him regarding the likelihood that this ignition failure was induced by the lender/lienholder.


Edited by AntAltMike, 25 August 2013 - 07:14 AM.


#17 OFFLINE   SamC

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:18 PM

It's a civil issue. It is not Auto Theft.

 

 

Incorrect, at least in my jurisdiction.

 

2) c) (1) If a person removes any of his or her property out of any county with the intent to prevent the same from being levied upon by any execution;...(or)

3) If a person receives the property of another with the intent to defraud any creditor or to prevent the property from being made liable for the payment of debts

The person is guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than two thousand five hundred dollars and be confined in jail not more than one year.

 

http://www.legis.sta...hap=61&art=3#03



#18 ONLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

I don't see where either of those clauses would apply.


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#19 OFFLINE   SamC

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

An Active Duty member of our armed forces can register their vehicles in either their Home of record state or their current state. Same goes for driver's license. However, this doesnot apply to the other family members. You can also designate whatever state as your home of record (this can have income tax implications as well as where your household goods the government will move them to when you leave active duty ).

 

 

The only two exceptions are active duty military and bona fide college students at a residential college.  Both should always carry their military or college IDs along with their DL and registrations.  Other than that the law in every state is that one automatically establishes residency by any of a variety of simple actions, such as signing a lease, working for wages, applying for welfare, getting utility services, almost any thing.  Depending on the state you have between 30 and 90 days to change your DL and registration (and normalize your insurance, if you do not have coverage from a national company).  Failure to do so renders you DL and registration void, and subjects you to summary arrest and you car to seizure.  Depending on the jurisdiction, your insurance can disclaim coverage, as most states do not allow coverage for illegal acts, and driving with no DL and no registration is illegal.

 

Buddy of mine's daughter is an MD.  Finished school and went to residency in Alabama.  Woke up one morning to find her car gone.  Called cops.  Cops had confiscated her car from the parking lot of her apartment, because she was an Alabama resident (medical residency is employment, not school) with a WV registered car.   She had to pay triple what she would have plus a $200 fine for the registration, then had to go to the insurance company and get an Alabama insurance proof card, and then get an Alabama DL to get her car out of impound. 



#20 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

Incorrect, at least in my jurisdiction.


http://www.legis.sta...hap=61&art=3#03


What's the full code section? Your link provided is not correct.


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#21 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:48 AM

Layman paraphrasing and excerpting of statutes and codes can often neglect the associated due process.  There is a difference between void and voidable, and the difference is that if something is voidable, then some agency must undertake some formal action that ordinarily involves giving the subject party of notice to void.

 

Similarly, I would expect that statutes regarding reversion of title to the leanholder and subsequent continued possession by the borrower would require that the lending title claimant submit proof of demand for return of the vehicle, unless the borrowing contract contained some arcane clause saying that, if ever the borrower is behind on payments, he agrees to return the car to the lender without notice.


Edited by AntAltMike, 30 June 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#22 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:05 AM

 

2) c) (1) If a person removes any of his or her property out of any county with the intent to prevent the same from being levied upon by any execution;...(or)

3) If a person receives the property of another with the intent to defraud any creditor or to prevent the property from being made liable for the payment of debts

The person is guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than two thousand five hundred dollars and be confined in jail not more than one year.

 

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This car owner was discharged from the military (honorably) about a year ago.  He had previously lived in Florida, had registered his car at his residence there, and, like lots of people living in Florida, had purchased a car with dark window tint that is not permitted in Maryland.  Shortly after he "moved" to Maryland to get a better paying job than he could in Florida, he got pulled by a local cop who spewed out some crap about the window tint, but, as he explains it, that residency waiver for a person in the military extends for 6 months after they are discharged, and now, even though that exception window has closed, he keeps the car registered in Florida just so he won't have to replace all the car windows.  I imagine the Florida address that the Florida licensing agency uses is a relative's home.

Edited by AntAltMike, 30 June 2013 - 07:39 AM.


#23 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:12 PM

My acquaintence's "excellent adventure" continues...

 

In addition to the car with the out of state registration, he also had, parked in his driveway, a big, expensive motorcycle with Tennessee plates that had expired four years ago.  One time, when I was lugging tools out of my work van, he had asked me if I could help him get the steering console off it.  He said he didn't have the key and that the steering assembly was locked.  I looked at it and saw that the steering console was held on by a peculiar "star nut" sunk down into a well, which was surely designed that way just to make stealing a motorbike more difficult.

 

I mentioned to him at the time that I thought the local ordinance here about keeping visible, unregistered vehicles on one's property applied to motorbikes as well as to cars, and recommended that he register it.  He said that it would take a little doing because he didn't have the title paper, and when I told him about the couple of times I had to replace a lost title paper, he started rambling something about how he had been buying this bike from a guy who had a shop, and he didn't have a receipt for the partial payments he had made, and then the guy's shop where it was stored went bankrupt, but that of course didn't include this bike because he was now actually its owner, but he was having trouble finding the shop's owner to confirm this, etc., etc., etc.  But then he added that it didn't really matter because all he had to do was to go to a junk yard and buy any old frame from a junked bike and use that serial number...

 

While the proper tool for removing that security nut costs over $80, I found a tool available online for $14 including shipping that I was pretty sure I could modify to do the job and so I bought one without telling him, but before I did, the town Code Enforcement inspector spotted the bike and fined the landlord $100 for the violation and identified that bike by its expired Tennessee plate number in the violation notice.  At that point, I became concerned that the local police now, "knew too much" and so I didn't ever attempt to remove the steering assembly, because I was concerned that if he tried to register it fraudulently, the chances of him being caught had now gone way up.

 

A month of so ago, he told me that he had met someone with a bike and they were going to swap bikes.  Then, a week ago, I saw that there was a different bike parked in his driveway, albeit with no plate on it.  I reminded him that he would need to put a manufactured cover over it to avoid being fined again, but he said that wouldn't be necessary because he was just going to go to a junkyard and buy a frame of a junked bike and ... you get the picture.  He must have swapped one hot bike for another.

 

I noticed a couple of times that there was no bike on the property in the evenings.  When I asked him about that, he said he wasn't worried about getting ticketed for driving an unregistered bike because he was sure no cop could catch him.  FYI, this small town measures half a mile by half a mile and they survey the entire town several times a day, so it's not like they wouldn't know who was using the bike and where its destination was if they ever tried unsuccessfully to pull him over.  Anyway, I saw him walking again today, and when he walked by my house, he came over to me and said that he had taken his bike to the local municipal park and parked it there while he went jogging and when he came back, it had been towed by the police, and now he had to determine if it was the municipal or county police who had it.  In this state, a lot of police functions that are done exclusively by municipalities elsewhere are done by the county here, so it can take a phonecall or two to clear some things up, but they use a common dispatcher so it isn't very difficult.

 

I forewarned him that in order to get the bike back, he will have to somehow "prove" that it is his. I have a feeling that if and when he attempts to claim that bike, I won't be seeing him driving, riding or even walking for a while... 


Edited by AntAltMike, 24 August 2013 - 04:12 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:52 PM

If I where you, I wouldn't help your aquantice with, well, anything... :). Amazing how he doesn't understand what he is doing is, well, for a lack of a better word stupid.


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#25 OFFLINE   Mark Holtz

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:51 PM

I have a funky feeling that this "acquaintance" attracts trouble. Apparently, a brick is more intelligent than this guy.

Meanwhile, I just got my car smogged and paid my registration. Just awaiting for the paperwork to arrive from the DMV. All legal, of course.

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