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Roof Issues/Dish Relocation/ETF


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33 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   AMike

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:13 AM

I have an interesting situation occurring at my home.  I am in the process of getting a roof replacement later this week.  The existing dish is installed very high on the existing roof at a level where the technician is not allowed to go.

 

Due to the new roof that is coming, my wife and I have stated that we will not have the dish installed on the roof.  HOA restrictions prevent us from having the dish visible in the front yard.  That leaves the sides of our house which do not give a clear view of the sky or the backyard which has limited opportunities.  We have said that we will not have a dish in the middle of the backyard with holes being dug and possibly effecting our sprinkler system.  Plus, our multi-switch is in the attic, so there are some challenges with getting the cabling to the attic if the dish is not on the roof.

 

I have a D* technician coming to my home tomorrow to survey the situation to determine if there is a line of sight that can be used that will not impact the aesthetics of our home.  If he is unable to determine a location, I will have no option but to cancel my service. 

 

Now, the question I have is, would I be allowed out of my contract without an ETF if they are unable to find a location to place the dish?


Edited by AMike, 03 June 2013 - 06:13 AM.

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#2 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:20 AM

Most likely not because, in your own words there are locations that might be useable but its sounds like you're not willing to use them.



#3 OFFLINE   AMike

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:27 AM

I should mention, the roof is also not an option per our roofer (failed to mention that in my original post).  When I contacted D* to arrange the service assessment, I made that clear to the representative.  Unfortunately, I do not have a large backyard, so my space is at a premium.

 

Of course at this point, I'm just wondering if I should just bite the bullet and cancel without having to go through this process.


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#4 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:35 AM

Interesting situation.

Your current location on the roof may not be accessible, but what if a location on the edge would work (where installers could reach without leaving their ladder)? Or do you just don't want anything bolted through your new roof?

If the front yard is your exclusive use area, then your HOA rules could be in violation of OTARD. But not too many people want their dish in the front. If visibility is an issue, what about some bushes to screen the dish?

Wait to see what the installer says. Good luck.

#5 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 06:44 AM

interesting situation indeed! The installer can use fall protection to get to the dish. if there is LOS where the current dish is, then you are responsible for the ETF if you dont want the dish there for aesthetic reasons.


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#6 OFFLINE   AMike

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

We live in a cluster neighborhood, so if I place it on the edge, my neighbor's home to my right blocks the view, and trees block it on the left.  We (and the roofer) do not want anything bolted through the new roof.

 

The current dish is located at nearly the top of the roof (see attached photo).  I had a technician here a few weeks back looking into a multi-switch issue and told him of our plans for replacing the roof.  He told me that they have a restriction as to how high they are allowed to climb on the roof and he would not be able to re-install the dish at its current location.  

 

I didn't think at the time that a simple roof replacement was going to create all these fits for us.

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#7 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:31 AM

Probably not an option for this case, but I just had a client that allowed an overhead run of RG-6 to get a dish off his roof.  I had to go back to my shop to get the appropriate wire, I don't usually have it on board.
 
The wire is around 20 feet off the ground, goes about 50 feet, and is over the backyard.  They have a (hopefully) slow growing fruit tree near it, but they were more concerned about the sprinkler system and all the cables in the ground than the tree.  Their backyard is pretty 'busy' with planters, gnomes, flower beds, shrubbery, and folderol, very few visitors are going to notice the wire.

 

Hope things work out for the OP, maybe an eave mount or the corner pipe would be an option somewhere there is LOS ??



#8 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:39 AM

Maybe a rock cover in the front lawn would work.

http://www.montanasa..._Rocks_s/64.htm

 

OTARD mentions cost, so your HOA is out of luck.

Send them a copy of the rules.

http://www.fcc.gov/g...on-devices-rule


Edited by jdspencer, 03 June 2013 - 08:41 AM.

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#9 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:27 AM

Before you begin the re- roofing why don't you just get together with your roofing contractor and have a Commdeck system installed as part of the overall re-roofing job at a convenient location for a DIRECTV tech to come later and easily place a dish (and struts if necessary).

 

http://www.rstcenterprises.com/

 

They don't bolt through the roof, and are aesthetically unobtrusive even if the dish is removed in the future.   


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#10 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:50 AM

You won't be able to avoid the ETF because it sounds like you have perfectly good locations for the dish.  If the dish can be pole mounted in the back yard, or if it can go in the front yard, then if you reject the installation you are liable for the ETF.

To repeat a previous post, if your front yard is yours or under your exclusive control, your HOA CANNOT prevent you installing a dish there. I speak from experience, having been on my HOAs architectural control committee for several years. The HOA can ask people not to use their front yard, but that is as far as it goes.



#11 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:27 AM

I would second the recommendation of the non-penetrating roof mount.  I believe they are also referred to as Commdeck mounts...that should meets your roofer needs as well.


Edited by CCarncross, 03 June 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#12 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:28 AM

texasbrit is assuming you don't live in a historial area (like downtown Charleston SC), where HOAs are legally authoritized by OTARD to say "no" to any dishes that are visible from the front of your house.

 

Also, OTARD says this about HOAs and their preferred locations:

Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal? Can a homeowners association or other restricting entity establish enforceable preferences for antenna locations?

A: Enforceable placement preferences must be clearly articulated in writing and made available to all residents of the community in question. A requirement that an antenna be located where reception would be impossible or substantially degraded is prohibited by the rule. However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed in a particular location on a house such as the side or the rear, might be permissible if this placement does not prevent reception of an acceptable quality signal or impose unreasonable expense or delay. For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.

 

So there are circumstances where HOAs can dictate where your dish is located. 

 

Be nice with the DirecTV rep coming out. They might be the only person who can get you out of paying the ETF (assuming you're not going to allow anything mounted on the roof and you don't want the dish in either the front or rear of your yard).


Edited by trh, 03 June 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   AMike

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:38 AM

I appreciate all the feedback.  I really have no desire to cancel my service or anything like that even though I am a dual subscriber of cable and D*.  I spoke with a representative yesterday to arrange this visit.  She was quite nice and felt confident that a solution could be found for us.  I know there's a dish relocation fee involved and had zero issue with the cost.


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#14 ONLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

[SNIP]

We have said that we will not have a dish in the middle of the backyard with holes being dug and possibly effecting our sprinkler system.

[SNIP]

Well, build a gazebo somewhere in your backyard and put the dish on top of it.


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#15 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

I appreciate all the feedback.  I really have no desire to cancel my service or anything like that even though I am a dual subscriber of cable and D*.  I spoke with a representative yesterday to arrange this visit.  She was quite nice and felt confident that a solution could be found for us.  I know there's a dish relocation fee involved and had zero issue with the cost.

 

 

Good for you!

 

I'm D* and E* and really like having both.  No cable in my area, or I would be tempted to go for the trifecta.

 

:righton:



#16 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

texasbrit is assuming you don't live in a historial area (like downtown Charleston SC), where HOAs are legally authoritized by OTARD to say "no" to any dishes that are visible from the front of your house.

 

Also, OTARD says this about HOAs and their preferred locations:

 

So there are circumstances where HOAs can dictate where your dish is located. 

 

Be nice with the DirecTV rep coming out. They might be the only person who can get you out of paying the ETF (assuming you're not going to allow anything mounted on the roof and you don't want the dish in either the front or rear of your yard).

 As far as placement is concerned, the issue is that you don't have to prove reception is not possible. If you say it is not possible, the HOA has to prove you are wrong. So they have to pay for someone to come out and show you can get perfect reception on all the satellites without using the front yard. My HOA actually did that a couple of years ago, and because the homeowner wanted all 5 satellites (including 119) the dish had to go in the front of the house - to the side at the front, but in the front none the less.

 

And yes, national historic districts are an exception



#17 OFFLINE   west99999

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

From the picture of your dish on the roof it could be brought down to the edge of the roof and there would be no house blocking the LOS not from that picture anyway. Cancel and you will have an ETF.



#18 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:09 PM

I appreciate all the feedback.  I really have no desire to cancel my service or anything like that even though I am a dual subscriber of cable and D*.  I spoke with a representative yesterday to arrange this visit.  She was quite nice and felt confident that a solution could be found for us.  I know there's a dish relocation fee involved and had zero issue with the cost.

OK;

 

Was just trying to suggest that since you know for sure LOS is available from most parts of the rooftop, yet don't want any bolting through the new shingles. Before you start the re-roof job take the opportunity to get together with your contractor to have a Commdeck platform installed along with the new roof at a point easily accessible from a ladder for a latter DIRECTV dish installer.    


Edited by HoTat2, 03 June 2013 - 03:13 PM.

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#19 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:54 PM

From the picture of your dish on the roof it could be brought down to the edge of the roof and there would be no house blocking the LOS not from that picture anyway.

I don't think DIRECTV approves of the under-eave J-mounts that used to be quite popular with the dishes that didn't require struts.

Nonetheless, it appears that Solid Signal offers one.

Edited by harsh, 03 June 2013 - 05:55 PM.

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#20 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 07:06 PM

If you say it is not possible, the HOA has to prove you are wrong. So they have to pay for someone to come out and show you can get perfect reception on all the satellites without using the front yard.

 

Do they need to even hire someone?  "Dear FCC, for the past X years, Mr. AMike has had a dish installed on his roof and received services, yet now he wants to move it to the front yard. Since he had service before with the roof mount, we object to him now desiring to put it in the front yard."

 

Nothing in OTARD about "I don't want the dish bolted through my roof", like millions of DBS subscribers currently have.

 

What does make this situation more interesting is the location and whether fall protection is required to install/service the dish.  There is an expense associated with implementing fall protection (equipment, training, multiple people on a job site when the installer is on the roof) and some companies have chosen not to even bother with fall protection: if they can't reach it from a ladder, they won't install it. I wonder what the FCC will do when the HOA says you can't install it in the front because there is acceptable LOS on the roof, yet the local installer won't do that install? (If the local company charges a 'significant' fee to install the dish, then the customer is covered by OTARD and can piss off the HOA and install in their front yard). 

 

I like the Commdeck recommendation plus that sounds like it would simplify his wiring.






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