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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DPP44/DualNode Input 3: "Dual Good Connection, No Signal"


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23 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   scscsc

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

I installed a new Hopper and Joey at my house yesterday, replacing a VIP622 and a VIP722.  I already had a DISH 1000 (not sure of the .1/.2/.4 version - see photo) and a DPP44, both of which were installed by me about 4 years ago.  I've been a Dish customer since 1997 - and I've done every install on my own.  The Hopper/Joey install was extremely straight forward (with the prior knowledge that the Hopper needed to be activated before I plugged any Joeys in).  It took about 30 minutes to get the DualNode, Hopper, and Joey installed, linked, and activated - but for some reason the Hopper refuses to find Input #3... which seems to be where PrimeTime AnyTime comes from.  I'm sure I'm doing something stupid, but I've triple checked all cables with a pretty expensive coax tester, and I'm certain that everything is cabled correctly.  The only other thing I can think of is that my LNBs might be old (or bad)...

 

Anyway, see the attached diagram and photos for info about my setup.  All cables are RG6 and thoroughly tested.  Any  advice would be greatly appreciated!

Attached Thumbnails

  • checkswitch-503.jpg
  • checkswitch-results.jpg
  • checkswitch-details1.jpg
  • checkswitch-details2.jpg
  • checkswitch-details3.jpg
  • sysinfo.jpg
  • attic-install.jpg
  • dish.jpg
  • Diagram.jpg


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#2 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:33 PM

Issues with the third tuner usually lead to a cabling issue between the Hopper and the Node. If it's not that, then the Duo Node could be bad. Also make sure all three connections between the DPP44 and the Duo Node are functioning properly. You can verify by swapping the cables around between 1 2 & 3. When you're done, return it back to port 2 from the DPP44 to port 1 on the Node, port 3 to port 2, port 4 to port 3. Also verify that the Power Inserter cable is functioning properly. The Power Inserter seems to be sensitive to having a perfect cable and a perfect connection.

 

Optional: I would swap the cables on ports 2 and 3 on the DPP44 coming from the dish. That should make the check switch show 119 110 129 rather than 119 129 110.


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#3 OFFLINE   scscsc

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:36 PM

Thanks for the tips... I have a Fluke MS2-100 MicroScanner2, and I have verified all of the cables (dish to DPP44, DPP44 to DuoNode, DuoNode to Hopper, and power inserter to DPP44).  I had also tried swapping all of the short runs between the DPP44 and the DuoNode prior to my post.  The power  inserter is functioning properly - it wasn't touched during this setup (it was always connected to a plug in the attic with a 3ft factory RG6 cable - directly to port 1 of the DPP44).  I did, however, unplug it after your post to test it with a multi-meter.  The power output matches what the inserter says on the back.

 

In the screen shots I posted, it looks like the Hopper can see all the way to the DP44 ("Device: DPP44, 4 ports")... is it possible my LNBs are too old?



#4 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

By Fluke description I'm not sure if the scanner can do measure of attenuation at 3 GHz when you place shorting cap on far side...

 

Seen what kind of LNBF and what switch in line happening by DiSEqC protocol (22 KHz modulated signal), that mean you can't say you got good cable connection between H and Node and switch and LNBF.



#5 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

Oh ! Just looked at big picture of your dish set. A lot of corrosion happened - it's just _require_ to check all nine F-connectors at LNBF and barrels.



#6 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:47 AM

Could you a picture (small one please, all are above too big to fit 1280x1024 laptop screen) of next screen by pressing "Details" ?



#7 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:49 AM

High chance of bad Dual Node ... could you replace it ? Or use Solo node instead ?



#8 OFFLINE   RASCAL01

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:07 PM

The Dual Node needs to have the middle wire sticking past the threads on the cables. If they are even with the top of tieh wire or shorter replaces them.   This should fix your problem.  It took me days to figure this out even with the big brass helping me.


Edited by RASCAL01, 04 June 2013 - 01:09 PM.

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#9 OFFLINE   scscsc

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

3haloodst - I switched port 2 and port 3 on the DPP44 and reran the check switch.  It now shows 119 110 129.
 
P Smith -
  The cables I have are marked "Swept to 3GHz" every 2ft - and the connectors are all RG6.  The Fluke tester only tests impedance, which it reports as 75 Ohm for all of these cables.  I did put the connectors on these cables on my own, but I've been making coax cables for many years and never had one not work... although, I don't have a sweep tester to verify that the cables are good to 3GHz, it is very unlikely that the center conductor (the only place the 3GHz signal actually travels) was damaged while I was putting connectors on.  For good measure, I ordered a new 50ft 3GHz/75 Ohm certified RG6 cable - with connectors pre-installed, to replace the Hopper<-->DuoNode run - as it is the only one that needs to be 3GHz (650 - 3000 MHz).  The DPP44 to Satellite and DPP44 to DuoNode cables need to be 950-2150 MHz and the DuoNode to Joey cables need to be 650-875 MHz.
  
  I also ordered a new DuoNode so I can try swapping that out.


#10 OFFLINE   scscsc

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:13 PM

The Dual Node needs to have the middle wire sticking past the threads.  It took me days to figure this out even with the big brass helping me.

 

On which ports (satellite inputs or hopper/joey outputs)?  All of my cables have the center conductor sticking about 1/8in beyond the threads.  The DuoNode came with a warning sheet that said like "The center conductor of coax cables attached to this device must not protrude more than 1/4" beyond the end of the threads".



#11 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

The only time I have seen/heard of this with a Hopper...  it turned out to be the cable inputs to the dual node...  As others have suggested, the quick way to test this would be to move the inputs to the dual node around.

 

To give you an idea here...  The dual node has 3 inputs... and supports 2 Hoppers.  Each Hopper has 3 SAT tuners...  each input from your DPP44 to the dual node carries 2 tuners.  What happens is Hopper 1 gets 2 tuners from input 1 and 1 of the tuners from input 2... the 2nd Hopper gets the other tuners.

 

Since you are missing tuner 3, that indicates (to me) that the center dual node input is faulty.  Now it *could* be a bad node... that's possible... but it is also possible that the input cable or the DPP44 or one of your cables from the LNBs are at fault.

 

The time I heard of this, it was one of the inputs to the node from the DPP44... oh, and in that case the cable itself actually measured out with a meter electrically... and yet it definitely didn't work and once replaced everything was fine.  So my money right now is on the cables from the DPP44 to the node.


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#12 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:45 PM

time to make bets :)

- I'm for Dual Node fault as 70%

- cabling/F-connectors is 30%


Edited by P Smith, 04 June 2013 - 01:45 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   scscsc

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:07 PM

Thanks Stewart.  The description of how the DuoNode multiplexes the inputs was very helpful.  I played musical cables with the short jumpers between the DPP44 and the DuoNode, but got the same results.  I'll update you guys after the new DuoNode shows up later this week.



#14 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

Also, try the other HOST port on the Duo Node, see if you get the same results. If you do, I would say it's either a Node or cable between Hopper and Node issue.

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#15 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:58 PM

actually... I saw same result when I did not use a [Solo] Node at all - just a cable from DPP44 to a H



#16 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:01 PM

actually... I saw same result when I did not use a [Solo] Node at all - just a cable from DPP44 to a H


That's to be expected as each DPP feed from the switch only carries two tuners.

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#17 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:10 PM

switches doesn't carry tuners ...

 

switches [DPP] sending all signals from all R or L transponders of one or two sats to one cable



#18 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:29 PM

switches doesn't carry tuners ...

switches [DPP] sending all signals from all R or L transponders of one or two sats to one cable


Either way, your post wasn't really relevant to the discussion anyway. A single DPP feed only supports two tuners.

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#19 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:07 PM

I'm telling about same symptoms and reasons why is that, so those who do troubshooting would be benefit from that

 

Hint: the node doesn't work at all (if you can't digest written post)



#20 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:11 PM

I had already stated that it could be the Node. You could just be clear on what you are saying rather than making obscure posts that don't really help much.

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