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Dual local networks


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   TNMUSTANG

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

I have been with Direct Tv for several, several years.  I have an OLD program package that is no longer available that cost me $67 a month.  The new comparable package is cheaper with a few more channels, than I get now.  However, right now, I get my local (Nashville channels) free, and I pay for the California CBS, NBC and FOX networks.  I have been told, by the local Directv store, that once I change my program package, I will no longer be able to get the West coast local channels.    I love having the California channels, as I can go there when I have missed a program in our time zone, or if I have more than 2 programs recording at the same time, I can go to the later time zone and record the program.  Does anyone know, for sure, If this is written in stone, that I will have to give up the California networks, if I change my programming?  Thanks....



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#2 OFFLINE   Volatility

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:48 PM

Local DirecTV store? No such thing. You mean a DirecTV rep in like Costco or Best Buy? But yes you are Grandfathered in to have both DNS and your local area networks. Per regulations, they are not allowed to give you both DNS and locals at the same time and one of the reasoning why I have been told is because of local companies like car dealerships, which sponsor your local network provider, want you to watch their ads. If you are grandfathered in though, you may lose them changing the base package.

Edited by Volatility, 07 June 2013 - 08:56 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:53 PM

You need to talk to someone smarter than a bag of hammers at DIRECTV proper about their current DNS policies. If the CSR sounds like they're winging and answer, it is likely because they are.<br /><br />In theory, you should NOT lose DNS access but they may say that you get East Coast instead of West Coast due to changes in DIRECTV's policy (as a result of changes in Federal regulations). I've seen an 800 number listed for DNS qualification but it was old and probably some adjunct of the RV department.<br /><br />Note that if you were a new subscriber, you could NOT qualify for DNS service at all.<br /><br />DIRECTV builds the cost of local channels into their package price.

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#4 OFFLINE   Brubear

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:34 PM

It should not impact you. If you suspend or or get interrupted for 30 days +, you can kiss them goodbye however. I would call in and saks specifically for the Distant Networks Services departmnent - they are trained in the legal aspects and can give you a more educated answer re: DNS than your average technician.


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#5 OFFLINE   goinsleeper

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

Technically they are supposed to be removed though very few CSR's will force this.  The distant networks are added on separately and are directly connected to your base package.  If you ever remove the distant networks, you will not be able to add them back.


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#6 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:49 AM

I have been with Direct Tv for several, several years. I have an OLD program package that is no longer available that cost me $67 a month. The new comparable package is cheaper with a few more channels, than I get now. However, right now, I get my local (Nashville channels) free, and I pay for the California CBS, NBC and FOX networks. I have been told, by the local Directv store, that once I change my program package, I will no longer be able to get the West coast local channels. I love having the California channels, as I can go there when I have missed a program in our time zone, or if I have more than 2 programs recording at the same time, I can go to the later time zone and record the program. Does anyone know, for sure, If this is written in stone, that I will have to give up the California networks, if I change my programming? Thanks....

According to the current DIRECTV Terms of Service (Link) since you currently have locals with DIRECTV you aren't supposed to be getting distant networks...however, there are reasons you would have both and be legal.

DIRECTV has to comply with the Satellite Television Extension and Localism Act (STELA) in the link below. It lays out how satellite providers can provide distant and local networks. In general, you can’t have both but there are exceptions.

http://www.copyright...n/pl111-175.pdf

You probably meet the special circumstances provision (page 31 of the pdf) which allows you to have both distant and local networks.  If you don't meet that criteria it's probably only a matter of time before they go away.

 

However, it seems the provision doesn't prevent DIRECTV from not including DNS channels if you change your programming package. If you want to keep them then you have to leave your package alone. Otherwise, you’ll lose them.

Mike


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#7 OFFLINE   ClayKY

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:26 PM

I've had DNS for years and never had any issue as I'm grandfathered in. If I ever remove them though, it's goodbye DNS for good.

#8 OFFLINE   TNMUSTANG

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:41 PM

Update:  I received an email from Direct wanting to replace one of my OLD receivers, that was obsolete, with a newer one.  So I called today, to CANEL that receiver, as I never use it.  I asked the Rep (And she was one VERY POLITE SALES REP!!), about losing the Western channels if I changed my package.  She researched it and stated if I canceled them, I couldn't get them back, but as long as I kept them turned on, I would continue to receive them!!.  She said  I could change my package and still keep all the local and distant networks.  I then asked If I was able to get a FREE GENIE upgrade.  And she stated YES I was..She transferred me to an equipment specialist.  I also asked her about losing the distant local channels and she stated the same thing as the other rep!!   SO.... I've got a genie and mini genie coming Saturday, A different package, and I get to keep the nashvile and California networks!!!  Thanks to all that posted!!



#9 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

Update:  I received an email from Direct wanting to replace one of my OLD receivers, that was obsolete, with a newer one.  So I called today, to CANEL that receiver, as I never use it.  I asked the Rep (And she was one VERY POLITE SALES REP!!), about losing the Western channels if I changed my package.  She researched it and stated if I canceled them, I couldn't get them back, but as long as I kept them turned on, I would continue to receive them!!.  She said  I could change my package and still keep all the local and distant networks.  I then asked If I was able to get a FREE GENIE upgrade.  And she stated YES I was..She transferred me to an equipment specialist.  I also asked her about losing the distant local channels and she stated the same thing as the other rep!!   SO.... I've got a genie and mini genie coming Saturday, A different package, and I get to keep the nashvile and California networks!!!  Thanks to all that posted!!

 

That's awesome.  I am glad to hear it.  I have heard of a few losing them when they change packages but very many.  I don't think that is really what triggers it for DirecTV.  A true trigger is changing the address for any reason.  No matter if its from one apartment to one on the other side of you.  A physical address change of any kind requires you to reapply and if you can't reapply because LIL is now available, they are gone.  I have never had any luck getting through to a DNS department but I have spoken with someone who does know all there is to know about it and has the ability to change them in the system (activate & deactivate immediately).  I have his number stored away.  Should you lose them in the next 30 days, hit me up and I will dig up his number. 


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#10 OFFLINE   Michael Hilley

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Keep in mind...

 

The FCC established regulations governing the protection of network local affiliates broadcasting rights going back to the days of C-band satellite transmissions.
The FCC knew it would need to revise the regulations to keep up with the changing technology and expansion of network broadcasting via satellites.

They set "roughly" five years as the timeline for periodic review and revision of the regulations.

The first regulations, then called the "Satellite Home Viewer Act" (SHVA) was adopted in 1988, revised in 1990, revised again in 1994, revised again in 1999, ...

The SHVA acro-name has changed twice since then, and the first of those was revised once as well, their purpose remains the same, but the regulations have undergone significant changes. 

From inception, when the regulations only covered C-band, they've been expanded to include Ku/Ka DBS, national and eventually local network broadcasts, analog and then digital, SD and then HD.

The 1999 version allowed for "grandfathering" DNS for C-band for all graded areas including "A", but excluded grade "A" areas for Ku-band DBS. 

A later stipulation which was a PIA, was the OTA reception test required, to establish the inability to receive a signal, and thus qualification to receive DNS, which too was modified from the days of analog to digital. 

 

The majority of the information on this forum provided in response to questions regarding DNS has been correct, especially from those with first hand knowledge... those that have DNS.

The information that is correct today, may not have been correct in the past (previous SHVA/SHVERA/STELA) and more importantly, may not be in the future.

I think this accounts for some of the incorrect information that is posted, someone who HAD DNS, submits what happened to them, which may not necessarily be applicable today.

 

One of the more common current questions regards receiving both DNS and LIL.

Where that was not allowed in the past, it presently is for those with certain grandfathered status... but not for everyone... and just because you currently have DNS, does not mean you have grandfathered status and will be able to add LIL and hope to keep both, or change programming packages and retain DNS.

I've had DNS from early on, I currently have the major 4 networks E/W HD, CW E/W, and PBS E... basically everything that is available.

I had DNS the ten years I was with Pegasus prior to their acquisition by DirecTV, beginning back when the networks were from various different cities, i.e., Seattle, SF, Pittsburgh, DC, Raleigh, etc., (one of each, not all of the networks for each city) in addition to one west feed from LA, and one east feed from NY rather than all west from LA and all east from NY... (I used to remember what they were... KOMO Seattle, KGO SF... I think?) I liked the coverage from around the country.

 

The service area that I am in now receives LIL HD, but that was not always the case.

I had E/W DNS HD when there was no LIL HD and NO OTA HD, strictly SD for OTA, Dish, DirecTV, and cable customers.

Monday Night Football was still on ABC, rather than ESPN.

Everyone else in town, to my knowledge, watched MNF on their HD sets, but watched the local ABC SD affiliate... that is until they found out I was watching KABC LA or WABC NY.

I couldn't leave town on a Monday night for fear that folks would break into my house to watch the game.

 

The next revision of STELA will likely be in the next two years, and there is no guarantee that ANYBODY will be able to keep DNS.. though I hope.

It's less essential now for me personally, with LIL HD (I watch the LIL versions rather than DNS CW and PBS since they are HD) but overall I do like the time difference capability, for recording conflicts. 

 

Anyway, do try to reach the DNS department if you currently have DNS and are making account changes, because over the 18 years I've had DNS, I have found that the non-DNS department CSR's do NOT know anything, and processing any change to your account may well result in losing DNS... and you may not be able to restore it. 


Edited by Michael Hilley, 20 June 2013 - 04:50 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   242424

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

I have found that the non-DNS department CSR's do NOT know anything,

 

Bingo and some don't even know the DNS department exists 



#12 OFFLINE   Volatility

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:23 PM

Bingo and some don't even know the DNS department exists 

From being on the inside I can say it is because their training is not up to par of what you would think it would be for a company that large. Very very sad to say the least. If they want a clear competitive marketing advantage they need to do a whole lot better.


Edited by Volatility, 20 June 2013 - 07:24 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:18 PM

From being on the inside I can say it is because their training is not up to par of what you would think it would be for a company that large. Very very sad to say the least. If they want a clear competitive marketing advantage they need to do a whole lot better.


Actually generally id say the bigger the company and more departments the worse the training. At least in my experience as a general rule.

#14 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 07:39 AM


 

The next revision of STELA will likely be in the next two years, and there is no guarantee that ANYBODY will be able to keep DNS.. though I hope.

It's less essential now, with LIL HD (I watch the LIL rather than DNS CW and PBS since they are HD) but I do like the time difference capability, for recording conflicts. 

 

You are right that there is no grantee but if you watched the hearing and heard that over 1 million subscribers will be without locals then I think you could agree that they will do something.  The NAB would rather let those subscribers fend for themselves.  Thats just stupid.


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#15 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:38 PM

You are right that there is no grantee but if you watched the hearing and heard that over 1 million subscribers will be without locals then I think you could agree that they will do something.  The NAB would rather let those subscribers fend for themselves.  Thats just stupid.


There is nothing that prevents each network from working with the satellite carriers to fill the gaps. Distants are a forced way of doing that. If you're in a market with no affiliate DirecTV can import an affiliate. If your market has an affiliate it comes down to personal preference and I would not expect to see NAB support for allowing the grandfathering to continue.

If distants go away filling the gaps would be up to the networks and private agreements. If the major networks want to lose the million in markets without an affiliate they can choose to do so.
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#16 OFFLINE   joshjr

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:23 PM

There is nothing that prevents each network from working with the satellite carriers to fill the gaps. Distants are a forced way of doing that. If you're in a market with no affiliate DirecTV can import an affiliate. If your market has an affiliate it comes down to personal preference and I would not expect to see NAB support for allowing the grandfathering to continue.

If distants go away filling the gaps would be up to the networks and private agreements. If the major networks want to lose the million in markets without an affiliate they can choose to do so.

 

These hearings are not all about whats best for the companies.  This aspect is about the customers.  I dont see grandfathering going away this go around.  I would be surprised if it did.


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#17 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:46 AM

These hearings are not all about whats best for the companies.  This aspect is about the customers.  I dont see grandfathering going away this go around.  I would be surprised if it did.


If the result became what was best for the customer we would get multiple local channels (any signal receivable at our location) and we would get those channels for free - NO payment to local stations to rebroadcast OTA content. If any rebroadcast royalties were due they would be paid via a statutory license similar to the current distants law - not as a payment negotiated with stations and ownership groups. That would be better for consumers than the current laws.

I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. :)

Status quo with a couple of tweaks is a fairly standard outcome. Hopefully the tweaks are helpful and not harmful to consumers.
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#18 OFFLINE   adamson

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:44 PM

Making a change in package will not result in loss of dns for those who have them. Really! I have changed my package a few times and never an issue.


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