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Pac-12 Networks confident, even without DirecTV


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#226 OFFLINE   kick4fun

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:29 PM

The Cal AD was exceptionally un-professional for what used to be a world class university. Maybe it still is, but people like her give the old Uni a black eye. 

 

How much money has he (Larry Scott) brought in? 

 

The Cal AD was great, considering she was being supportive of Cal Sports by dumping a tv provider that won't carry the sports that she wants to watch, namely CAL. I don't see that as being unprofessional. 

 

The money that Pac12 earned through tv contracts was through the roof.. This was just for the ESPN, FOX tv deal. 

"The contract, which will begin with the 2012-13 season, will be worth more than $225 million per year"  http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=6471380

 

This is significantly more than his predecessor. 



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#227 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 10:44 PM

The Cal AD was great, considering she was being supportive of Cal Sports by dumping a tv provider that won't carry the sports that she wants to watch, namely CAL. I don't see that as being unprofessional. 

 

The money that Pac12 earned through tv contracts was through the roof.. This was just for the ESPN, FOX tv deal. 

"The contract, which will begin with the 2012-13 season, will be worth more than $225 million per year"  http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=6471380

 

This is significantly more than his predecessor. 

Welcome back; thought I'd see you here.....

 

Maybe Scott did a good job negotiating with ESPN and Fox, or maybe given new contracts and a bigger conference, the increase would have been there anyway. In any event, the money is coming from the big networks, not the selling of the Pac12 as a network. 


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#228 OFFLINE   DC_SnDvl

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:16 AM

(Perhaps DirecTV's Big 10 placement is the issue ... where DISH can give PAC-12 the same carriage as Big 10 - in market "choice"/nationwide sports pack - if PAC-12 wants Big 10's carriage on DirecTV that would be nationwide carriage.)
 

 

I think this is what is keeping PAC-12 off of DTV and I don't think anything is going to happen until the Big 10 contract is up.



#229 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:03 AM

OH darn , what will I ever do without another high priced network channel that I'll never watch but still have to pay for.

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#230 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:12 AM

OH darn , what will I ever do without another high priced network channel that I'll never watch but still have to pay for.

Your sarcasm aside, it is a valid point. Why should a carriage agreement, with limited interest outside of regional States, require all subs to pay for that channel.

Personally, I’m not a college sports fan and I don’t think it’s fair for me to pay for that channel so diehard fans can have their channel. DIRECTV should not just “suck it up” and pay for it until the agreement doesn’t force those that don’t want it don’t have to pay for it.

My 2¢ FWIW.

Mike


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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#231 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:27 AM

Your sarcasm aside, it is a valid point. Why should a carriage agreement, with limited interest outside of regional States, require all subs to pay for that channel.

Personally, I’m not a college sports fan and I don’t think it’s fair for me to pay for that channel so diehard fans can have their channel. DIRECTV should not just “suck it up” and pay for it until the agreement doesn’t force those that don’t want it don’t have to pay for it.

My 2¢ FWIW.

Mike

agreed i hope the sec network is like that


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#232 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:31 AM

Your sarcasm aside, it is a valid point. Why should a carriage agreement, with limited interest outside of regional States, require all subs to pay for that channel.

Personally, I’m not a college sports fan and I don’t think it’s fair for me to pay for that channel so diehard fans can have their channel. DIRECTV should not just “suck it up” and pay for it until the agreement doesn’t force those that don’t want it don’t have to pay for it.

My 2¢ FWIW.

Mike

Sorry about the sarcasm, But until Directv wants to give us an option on all Base packages to drop this BS RSN fee, I don't want ANY forced RSNs on me. 

I'm in Big Ten country, and if Directv dropped that channel, I wouldn't care one bit.  All the games are broadcast locally anyway, and ESPN as well as your local news is more then informative about the days games. 


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#233 OFFLINE   sdk009

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:54 AM

Sorry about the sarcasm, But until Directv wants to give us an option on all Base packages to drop this BS RSN fee, I don't want ANY forced RSNs on me. 

I'm in Big Ten country, and if Directv dropped that channel, I wouldn't care one bit.  All the games are broadcast locally anyway, and ESPN as well as your local news is more then informative about the days games. 

Nobody is "forcing" RSNs on you.  You can just subscribe to those in your viewing area. The reason we want the channel is to watch the games live.  No sports fan says, "I'll just skip the game so I can watch 30 seconds of it tonight on the news."

 

Satracer's earlier comments have crystalized D*'s position for me.  They are upset that Dish did an end-run and got a deal that fit their pricing model which included on-site advertising to help keep the cost per sub in line.  Since then DirecTV has taken the schoolyard view and by saying "if we don't get (the ridiculous non-starter) the deal we want (such as we have with Fox Soccer+), then we're taking all our marbles, going home, and won't play."  How childish.  Why would the PAC-12 Net agree to a pay-per-view model for one carrier, but not for any others.  That makes no marketing and business sense from it's point-of-view.  That's an empty promise without any financial or viewer commitment on D's part and that would not sway any additional advertiser to place its product on the PAC-12 Net.

 

Full disclouse:  Even though I'd a D* sub since 1996, I do have access to the channel on-line via a sub through a vacation property elsewhere.  But I want the channel offered to me from D*.  I have no other alternative at my primary home as satellite TV is the only alternative, and I am in month 5 of a new two-year commitment.



#234 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:01 AM

Nobody is "forcing" RSNs on you.  You can just subscribe to those in your viewing area. The reason we want the channel is to watch the games live.  No sports fan says, "I'll just skip the game so I can watch 30 seconds of it tonight on the news."

 

Really?  I'm forced to Entertainment pack to avoid the now $3 RSN fee that comes with Choice , Choice Extra, Choice Ultimate, Premier.

 

That's Force!

 

So is that right? 

 

You want special RSN's you pay for it, let the rest of us have more then 2 options to opt out.

 

Option one Entertainment pack

Option 2 tell Directv to pound sand!

 

NOT ACCEPTABLE!


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#235 OFFLINE   sdk009

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:57 AM

Really?  I'm forced to Entertainment pack to avoid the now $3 RSN fee that comes with Choice , Choice Extra, Choice Ultimate, Premier.

 

That's Force!

 

So is that right? 

 

You want special RSN's you pay for it, let the rest of us have more then 2 options to opt out.

 

Option one Entertainment pack

Option 2 tell Directv to pound sand!

 

NOT ACCEPTABLE!

Why are you getting so upset over a 10 cent per day charge?

That's not the issue with the PAC12 Net and this topic. 


Edited by sdk009, 28 July 2013 - 10:57 AM.


#236 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:11 AM

The below site is an interesting ranking of college football's most "engaged" fan bases.  It includes things like game attendance, ticket prices, twitter and facebook likes and hits.  The PAC-12 has 2 teams in the top 25.  USC at #14 and Oregon at #15.  The Big Ten has 7 teams, including #1, 4, and 6.  The SEC has 10 teams.

 

http://www.ticketcit...gaged-fans.html

 

I love me some PAC-12 football, and strongly believe the PAC-12 puts out the second best product on the field behind the SEC.  The PAC-12 network itself I think provides better content than the BTN.  Remember, the PAC-12 has a couple of #1 and #2 picks each year for football games, and doesn't only get what is left over after Fox and ESPN are done, while the BTN only gets tier 3 games.  Neuheisel as a commentator is as good as anybody on ESPN, and the football in 60 was a great way to watch a game last year.  For a PAC-12 fan, the football rewind gives more PAC-12 focused highlight and discussion than anything on ESPN.  It is a good channel with quality content... but the reality is that the Big Ten and SEC can both put out a worse product and get better carriage deals and more money because of their fan bases.

 

I'm one of the people that thinks Larry Scott has done a good job, because in spite of the above, the PAC-12 has the best tier 1 and tier 2 TV deal in college football.  The PAC-12 network, even if not raking in the dough like some had hoped, is on solid footing, marginally in the black in year one.  A price that would have provided value for DirecTV would have been under-priced for other providers, so they've chosen to stick to the pricing model of their existing contracts.  But for many, not getting on DirecTV will overshadow everything else, and is his defining legacy to date.

 

Good stuff.  I also think Larry Scott has done a nice job.  As stated, I'm a huge Pac 12 fan and have been for decades.  I think one of the things that you have to factor in is the games missed.  For any given school, I think the most games that can be missed is 3, it might be 4 (someone feel free to correct me if this is wrong...I'm sure you will :) ) and the question is whether it is worth switching for 3 or 4 games, when they can go to a bar, or whatever and watch it.  Again, this is just my opinion, but I suspect many are saying it's not worth it.  Certainly the numbers reflect that.  As a UCLA fan I believe I missed 2 or 3 games last year.  Wasn't fun, but I survived. In fact for one of them I went to the Rose Bowl and attended the game instead. 

 

Just my two cents. 


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#237 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:22 AM

Nobody is "forcing" RSNs on you.  You can just subscribe to those in your viewing area. The reason we want the channel is to watch the games live.  No sports fan says, "I'll just skip the game so I can watch 30 seconds of it tonight on the news."

 

Satracer's earlier comments have crystalized D*'s position for me.  They are upset that Dish did an end-run and got a deal that fit their pricing model which included on-site advertising to help keep the cost per sub in line.  Since then DirecTV has taken the schoolyard view and by saying "if we don't get (the ridiculous non-starter) the deal we want (such as we have with Fox Soccer+), then we're taking all our marbles, going home, and won't play."  How childish.  Why would the PAC-12 Net agree to a pay-per-view model for one carrier, but not for any others.  That makes no marketing and business sense from it's point-of-view.  That's an empty promise without any financial or viewer commitment on D's part and that would not sway any additional advertiser to place its product on the PAC-12 Net.

 

Full disclouse:  Even though I'd a D* sub since 1996, I do have access to the channel on-line via a sub through a vacation property elsewhere.  But I want the channel offered to me from D*.  I have no other alternative at my primary home as satellite TV is the only alternative, and I am in month 5 of a new two-year commitment.

 

Well, if I crystalized D*'s position for you, I did a bad job.  #1, that's my position, not D*'s.  #2, I disagree with almost everything in that paragraph...apparently I did a poor job of explaining my position if that led to that conclusion.  I can't imagine D* being upset at all with whatever Dish does.  They will do what they will do, that's their business.  You could turn that same argument on its ear and say, "well DISH and AT&T and TWC have a deal so D* must now go do a deal to be on parity."  The reality is, each company will do what makes sense for their customers, for their financial health, etc.  What makes these decisions difficult is the diversity of the customers (sports fans vs non sports fans).  D* has many customers that aren't sports fans that don't want their rates going up.  There are some that have "crystalized" this position in this very thread.  D*, in my opinion (I'm not a spokesman for the company, purely my opinion), has to weigh the impact on all their customers.  They've offered a solution that will appease you and appease those that don't want the rate increase.  Pac 12 said no.  I get why the Pac 12 said no, I also get why D* is pushing back. 

 

The world has changed significantly.  Years ago when Big Ten launched, there was no cord shaving or cord cutting, bills were much less for customers, the economy wasn't hurting, etc, etc.  If you're a non-sports fan and your bill just went up because of the Pac 12, Lakers, Dodgers, etc...are you more likely or less likely to look at alternatives?  The world has changed.  Strategies change, in my opinion. Costs of programming certainly have changed. 


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#238 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

Really?  I'm forced to Entertainment pack to avoid the now $3 RSN fee that comes with Choice , Choice Extra, Choice Ultimate, Premier.

 

That's Force!

 

So is that right? 

 

You want special RSN's you pay for it, let the rest of us have more then 2 options to opt out.

 

Option one Entertainment pack

Option 2 tell Directv to pound sand!

 

NOT ACCEPTABLE!

 

Option 3, RSNs don't require penetration to almost all subscribers in a market at rates higher than that $2....sometimes well over 5 times that amount in a market like NYC with YES, MSG, MSG+, SNY.


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#239 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:26 AM

Actually you just proved they asked for more than they need by probably quite a bit. If they lowered their prices and had much larger distribution by getting everyone to have picked it up, then they would have more than made up the difference in how much less money per sub they would have taken in since they would have had so any more subs.

I am a fan. But pac12 is greedy. I don't blame them for wanting as much as they can, but I think they forgot about being rude to my pocket book on the way.

 

I don't think you can necessarily say that, because we don't know what price would have provided value for DirecTV.  The most common estimate (like SNL Kagan,) is the PAC-12 is asking 80 cents per subscriber inside footprint, and 10 cents per sub outside footprint.  If a .60/.08 pricing structure worked for DirecTV, then you may have a point.  But if DirecTV assesses that they really won't lose that many PAC-12 fans, and that the math doesn't make sense until a .20/.03, pricing structure, then no, then I don't think the PAC-12 is making a mistake by not allowing DirecTV to set the price.

 

I also think, for D*, they are using the P12N as a bit of a battleground network to push back on the exploding sports costs, and it may not be a purely economic decision.  Or at least not based just on the economics of P12, but on the larger economic impact of Sports programming in general.  Especially with SEC network coming, to shift the college networks from the BTN construct (everyone gets it) to an ala-carte or sports channel construct would be a huge victory for D*, not just with their negotiation with P12 but for future negotiations.  Right now, all one has to do is call D* to threaten leaving due to P12N to get a free year of Sunday Ticket (I know quite a few people who have done this and some that don't care at all about P12, but have used this for the free Sunday Ticket).  So D* is willing to lose revenue elsewhere in their battle with PAC-12.

 

All that to say, I don't think it is as simple as figuring out the right pricing model that would have worked for D*, and allowing that to set the price for their network for everyone else.  The market has gotten a lot more complicated than that.



#240 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:27 PM

Good stuff.  I also think Larry Scott has done a nice job.  As stated, I'm a huge Pac 12 fan and have been for decades.  I think one of the things that you have to factor in is the games missed.  For any given school, I think the most games that can be missed is 3, it might be 4 (someone feel free to correct me if this is wrong...I'm sure you will :) ) and the question is whether it is worth switching for 3 or 4 games, when they can go to a bar, or whatever and watch it.  Again, this is just my opinion, but I suspect many are saying it's not worth it.  Certainly the numbers reflect that.  As a UCLA fan I believe I missed 2 or 3 games last year.  Wasn't fun, but I survived. In fact for one of them I went to the Rose Bowl and attended the game instead. 

 

Just my two cents. 

 

Last year the number of games each school had on the P12N varied between 3 to 7.  USC and Oregon were the low at 3, but as I mentioned earlier, even there they both had a "good" game.  Oregon played Oregon State on the P12N, and USC vs ASU was a big game for the South Division Race.  UCLA had 4 games on the P12N (Houston, Colorado, Cal, and Arizona).  The average each year will be ~4.5 games on P12N per school.  But since roughly half of those games would be home games, you'd only miss about 2 road games per year on agregate, if you attended the home games...  Hey, maybe P12N will help home attendance numbers in the PAC-12.

 

One of the things that may hurt demand for the P12N is that you don't know which games will be on the network until often 6/12 days prior to the game.  How many more Cal fans would have been inclined to switch last year if they had known at the beginning of the season that 7 of their 12 games would be on the P12N?  Which schools this year will have at least half their games on the network.  Generating demand for the network may be a bit slower, and a learned process over a couple years, as different fan bases experience a season with a high number of games on the P12N.

 

One other comment, your "acceptance" of missing a couple games is more typical of us PAC-12 fans.  I married into a Nebraska family, and have spent a lot of time in the Cornhusker State.  I don't know of a single Nebraska fan that would ever accept missing a single game.  At my wedding we had to have TV's at the reception because of an overlap with the Husker game.


Edited by chillyfl, 28 July 2013 - 02:43 PM.


#241 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

Nobody is "forcing" RSNs on you. You can just subscribe to those in your viewing area. The reason we want the channel is to watch the games live. No sports fan says, "I'll just skip the game so I can watch 30 seconds of it tonight on the news."

Satracer's earlier comments have crystalized D*'s position for me. They are upset that Dish did an end-run and got a deal that fit their pricing model which included on-site advertising to help keep the cost per sub in line. Since then DirecTV has taken the schoolyard view and by saying "if we don't get (the ridiculous non-starter) the deal we want (such as we have with Fox Soccer+), then we're taking all our marbles, going home, and won't play." How childish. Why would the PAC-12 Net agree to a pay-per-view model for one carrier, but not for any others. That makes no marketing and business sense from it's point-of-view. That's an empty promise without any financial or viewer commitment on D's part and that would not sway any additional advertiser to place its product on the PAC-12 Net.

Full disclouse: Even though I'd a D* sub since 1996, I do have access to the channel on-line via a sub through a vacation property elsewhere. But I want the channel offered to me from D*. I have no other alternative at my primary home as satellite TV is the only alternative, and I am in month 5 of a new two-year commitment.

If you are in a market where there is more than one RSN in your market they add an extra RSN fee to your bill no option to opt out.

And you seem to miss the point on what's happen with RSN fees. They are all increasing their rates and teams are creating more channels. If this keeps up RSN fees will be higher than espn in every market. They already are in Los Angeles and ny I am sure an its only going to get worse.

A line needs to be drawn.

At what point do they stop all this add RSN without care. When sports are 59% of the bill? 60%. It's gettin ridiculous already.

Directv doesn't want to lose subs to "cord cutters". Which will happen if they don't keep sports costs which are by far the most expensive programming from continuing to increase out of control.

And please. I don't think DIRECTV wants to offer these channels as ppv. I think they are simply stating try have offered several options and none have been listened too. A La cart and lower picking to make it in line with the big ten network is not what the pac12 is interested in.
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#242 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

A La cart and lower picking to make it in line with the big ten network is not what the pac12 is interested in.

 

You're confused on Big Ten.  BTN is on the DirecTV Choice package, everywhere.  BTN is estimated as getting 97 cents per sub inside footprint.  The BTN is what P12N is shooting for, though at a slightly lower rate (~80 cents per sub... all estimates are latest I could find from SNL Kagan).



#243 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

Sorry about the sarcasm, But until Directv wants to give us an option on all Base packages to drop this BS RSN fee, I don't want ANY forced RSNs on me.
I'm in Big Ten country, and if Directv dropped that channel, I wouldn't care one bit. All the games are broadcast locally anyway, and ESPN as well as your local news is more then informative about the days games.


No they are not. If the game is on BTN, it is only on BTN.
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#244 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

when they can go to a bar, or whatever and watch it.


Some people don't want to go to or take their families to a bar to watch a football game. And most bars have D* already, so they're SOL. Although I have been seeing a few add cable as a supplement to get The Pac 12 Network. And what exactly is "whatever?"

#245 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:12 PM

"Whatever" includes, but is not limited to: A friend's house, a restaurant, a gym, a hotel, a train station (not many!), a neighbor, with invitation, or peeping through windows.........


"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#246 OFFLINE   Mariah2014

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

2 things need to be clearly understood. This network will never get added to Directv and the price isn't going to change. They won't change it because that means everyone else gets a rate cut. Where as the situation that Fox is facing is a bit different. They will likely have to settle for better package but the price per customer they received for Speed to get on cable and satellite companies besides Comcast. Comcast knew they could add because they will get to match the better deals anyway. Pac 12 knows they can survive with the customer base they have and Fox is learning quickly they have to make changes or not be on most cable and satellite carries when it comes to the changes they are making to their stations.


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#247 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:55 PM

"Whatever" includes, but is not limited to: A friend's house, a restaurant, a gym, a hotel, a train station (not many!), a neighbor, with invitation, or peeping through windows.........


Or go to the game.
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#248 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:04 PM

Last year the number of games each school had on the P12N varied between 3 to 7.  USC and Oregon were the low at 3, but as I mentioned earlier, even there they both had a "good" game.  Oregon played Oregon State on the P12N, and USC vs ASU was a big game for the South Division Race.  UCLA had 4 games on the P12N (Houston, Colorado, Cal, and Arizona).  The average each year will be ~4.5 games on P12N per school.  But since roughly half of those games would be home games, you'd only miss about 2 road games per year on agregate, if you attended the home games...  Hey, maybe P12N will help home attendance numbers in the PAC-12.

 

One of the things that may hurt demand for the P12N is that you don't know which games will be on the network until often 6/12 days prior to the game.  How many more Cal fans would have been inclined to switch last year if they had known at the beginning of the season that 7 of their 12 games would be on the P12N?  Which schools this year will have at least half their games on the network.  Generating demand for the network may be a bit slower, and a learned process over a couple years, as different fan bases experience a season with a high number of games on the P12N.

 

One other comment, your "acceptance" of missing a couple games is more typical of us PAC-12 fans.  I married into a Nebraska family, and have spent a lot of time in the Cornhusker State.  I don't know of a single Nebraska fan that would ever accept missing a single game.  At my wedding we had to have TV's at the reception because of an overlap with the Husker game.

that's like my aunt and uncle schelderd there's around the bama/tenn game


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#249 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

2 things need to be clearly understood. This network will never get added to Directv and the price isn't going to change. They won't change it because that means everyone else gets a rate cut. Where as the situation that Fox is facing is a bit different. 

Never say never.  Unless you're in management at DIRECTV®....


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#250 OFFLINE   damondlt

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:51 PM

No they are not. If the game is on BTN, it is only on BTN.

Not very many!


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